Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:43 AM - Re: Europa tail wheel tow bar (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
2. 02:55 AM - Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (SPURPURA)
3. 02:59 AM - Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (h&jeuropa)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: Europa tail wheel tow bar (Bud Yerly)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (Bud Yerly)
6. 07:45 AM - Ethanol Use in a 912S (Gary Leinberger)
7. 08:14 AM - Re: Ethanol Use in a 912S (Bud Yerly)
8. 08:37 AM - Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (JonathanMilbank)
9. 09:06 AM - Re: E10 fuel (John Wigney)
10. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (Bud Yerly)
11. 03:15 PM - Re: Europa tail wheel tow bar (Jerry Rehn)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa tail wheel tow bar |
Jerry, The clear best answer for me is one made of rope - light weight,
drop it in the back without risk of damaging fibreglass, no great matter
if you forget to take it off when departing. Make it yourself from
thickish rope (about 15mm diameter - just right to fill gaps between big
washers on tailwheel axel and not to cut into hands when pulling on it),
if you can spice, if not ask a sailing friend. Two small loops with
splices to fit on wheel; cross over splice about 8 ins back, about 3 or
4 ft loop to get hold of and pull on, all splices covered with heat
shrink. Will send a photo when next visiting plane. David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-07-11 05:03, Jerry Rehn wrote:
>
> Looking for tow bars that work well for Europa.
> Thanks!
> Jerry
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
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| Subject: | Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel |
With over 1000 hours with a 914 and 912uls Ive not had any problems strictly using
e10. You want to keep it fresh though, less than 3 months old.
--------
N951EU - Tri-gear & 912ULS, N77EU- Mono & 914
I'D RATHER HAVE A BOTTLE IN FRONT OF ME THAN A FRONTAL LABOTAMY.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502784#502784
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| Subject: | Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel |
Jonathan,
Most auto fuel in the US contains ethanol but usually not more than 10% (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=27&t=10).
We use nothing but auto fuel in our 914 and have done that since new, now over
1100 hours. We have not experienced any problems with risks you asked about.
Perhaps some of our experience is because we live in the midwest away from salt
air and extremely high temperatures.
Jim & Heather
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| Subject: | Europa tail wheel tow bar |
Jerry,
I find the Aircraft Spruce sold Ground Support Towbar for Scott Tailwheels to be
fine for around the hangar push pull ops.
Otherwise, the lightweight ski rope with a piece of hose for a handgrip is great
for XC use.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Jerry Rehn
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:03 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Europa tail wheel tow bar
Looking for tow bars that work well for Europa.
Thanks!
Jerry
Sent from my iPad
Message 5
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| Subject: | Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel |
Jonathan,
Most of the US is still 5% ethanol but the pump says up to 10%. In testing here
in Florida, the actual ethanol seems to be between 5-10% as advertised.
I've found that as long as the fuel is used soon (within a couple weeks) it is
fine with no detonation. The problem comes in with water absorption and loss
of octane when in storage or non-use.
I have a couple customers that use MoGas (highest octane available) in their 912
and 912S without failure or deterioration they are aware of. They just dont
trust the fuel beyond three weeks. Pump out the old fuel into the car and put
in fresh fuel in the plane before you go flying.
With no antiknock sensors in the Rotax, one has to be careful in the 912S. The
912 doesn't mind what it runs.
No vapor lock reported. If the plane is hot, there have been reports of poor starting.
The remedy is run the fuel pump a little longer to flush fresh fuel
into the lines and any vapor bubbles out and starts are normal. Cold weather
starts are always better with AvGas.
My article on my website is still accurate and many other writers on-line and in
magazines agree that it is safe to use the highest octanes if fresh. I do see
deterioration in the Redux used in the fuel boss course screens when using
ethanol laced fuel, over time, but it isn't bad. My old Piersburg fuel pumps
got brittle, but they were old so no long term testing was done to see if it was
just age or the fuel.
Fuel hoses that are lined (R-7 or better aka vapor barrier hose) control the stinky
gas and hold up for years. Tank material is not an issue.
Watch your float bowls for corrosion if you insist on leaving the bowls full of
old MoGas. Use a fuel system stabilizer for storage, but better yet, drain the
carbs and fuel pumps. The Rotax O rings seem to hold up well in the carbs,
but down at Lockwood Kerry has seen some crumbling O rings in those plane that
get little use (old gas) or any preemptive maintenance.
See my website, and the many articles on-line that give the pros and cons of course.
Since I keep my aircraft at an airport, I use AvGas in my 914. I ran fresh 93
octane (R+M/2 method over here) in it one time to see how it ran, and it was OK
for that test hop which ran from sea level to 10K at max continuous power then
cruised and it seemed to run well. I researched octane and its rating system,
and the general consensus is octane ratings are fairly conservative.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of JonathanMilbank
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2021 11:49 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel
I'll get straight to my question which is "Does anyone in the United States experience
problems in Europa aircraft fitted with Rotax 912 engines when using E10
gasoline purchased from filling stations?"
Several weeks ago I posed this question to European pilots and got 2 replies indicating
that they don't have problems using E10, which we are about to have introduced
in the UK in September.
When I first addressed this question the Europeans, I was unaware that E10 has been used in the USA for a few years. I only discovered this today, when I stumbled across a video entitled "Is Ethanol Bad For Your Car's Engine?" by one of my favorite automotive engineering experts. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DATGSBi1kBl0&data=04%7C01%7C%7C73d351c75a8f49e9012a08d943bac873%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637615291768794317%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NVM%2BeeFVxPln5GHGd2ncmLadqm9SXbw0CQwrLGDL6d0%3D&reserved=0
Of course wear isn't the perceived risk factor for aircraft engines; it's water,
carburettor icing, vaporisation and phase separation which are the causes of
concern. These aspects weren't covered deeply in the video, which wasn't concerned
with aircraft.
Several contributions were elicited on the forum when I last raised the topic,
so I'm not seeking replies from outside North America, thanks. of course wear
isn't the perceived risk factor for aircraft engines; it's water, carburettor
icing and phase separation which are the causes of concern.
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D16776903&data=04%7C01%7C%7C73d351c75a8f49e9012a08d943bac873%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637615291768794317%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=kgjTZCV92HIVPfKYlqcvhOp7pjPdqU46hqSBYM2FD%2BI%3D&reserved=0
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| Subject: | Ethanol Use in a 912S |
I have been using 93 octane ethanol fuel for nine years in my 912S (and occ
asionally 100LL). I have had absolutely no problems. I check my fuel for wa
ter and have never had any. My fuel lines are fuel injection-quality car li
nes which I just replaced on my last annual. In looking at the old ones I c
ould see no problems.
Dr. Gary Leinberger
Accounting and Finance Department
Lombardo College of Business
Millersville University
McComsey 340
gleinberger@millersville.edu<mailto:gleinberger@millersville.edu>
No Summer Office Hours
On Sabbatical for Fall 2021
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol Use in a 912S |
Gary also has a convenient fuel drain petcock under the cowl to swap his fu
el quickly to keep his fuel fresh.
Bud
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of Gary Leinberger <Gary.Leinberger@millersville.edu>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 9:45:26 AM
r <europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Ethanol Use in a 912S
I have been using 93 octane ethanol fuel for nine years in my 912S (and occ
asionally 100LL). I have had absolutely no problems. I check my fuel for wa
ter and have never had any. My fuel lines are fuel injection-quality car li
nes which I just replaced on my last annual. In looking at the old ones I c
ould see no problems.
Dr. Gary Leinberger
Accounting and Finance Department
Lombardo College of Business
Millersville University
McComsey 340
gleinberger@millersville.edu<mailto:gleinberger@millersville.edu>
No Summer Office Hours
On Sabbatical for Fall 2021
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| Subject: | Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel |
Bud,
Your prompt and insightful reply is appreciated, as always. It remains to be seen
what, if any, pronouncements our Light Aircraft Association might make in the
coming weeks as the September introduction of E10 draws near.
At my airfield there is 100LL available, but those of us with Rotax engines are
mindful that using it all of the time will have servicing implications.
Thanks again.
Jonathan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502792#502792
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Hi Jonathan,
I have 1,090 hours on my Europa XS mono with a 912S engine. Initially,
for convenience at my local airport, I used 100LL but for many years now
I have been using standard US autogas labelled as 93 octane E10. When I
am traveling, I simply top up with 100LL until I get back to home base.
Some observations :-
* The engine starts OK from cold with full choke on either fuel.
* As the engine warms up, I can bleed off the choke much quicker with
100LL than with autogas. When the engine has warmed up, there is no
perceptible difference in operation or power.
* When starting the engine from hot, the engine will fire much quicker
with 100LL. With autogas, there may be a tendency for vapour lock or
it may be over rich from evaporation - in any event, it may be
necessary to cycle the throttle to open and closed before the engine
fires.
* US automobile 93 octane fuel is usually grade E10, meaning it can
contain up to 10% alcohol.
* Rotax service instruction SI-912i-001r3 states that E10 fuel is
approved..
* It is very obvious that when using 100LL, the oil is much dirtier
and the oil and filter should be changed every 25 hours.
* In 1,090 hours of operation with both fuels, I have never seen any
evidence of water in 100LL or 93 autogas.
Cheers, John
N262WF
Mooresville, North Carolina
/Subject: Europa-List: Question for United States friends regarding E10
fuel From: "JonathanMilbank" //<jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>////
/
/I'll get straight to my question which is "Does anyone in the United
States experience problems in Europa aircraft fitted with Rotax 912
engines when using E10 gasoline purchased from filling stations?"
Several weeks ago I posed this question to European pilots and got 2
replies indicating that they don't have problems using E10, which we are
about to have introduced in the UK in September. //
/
/When I first addressed this question the Europeans, I was unaware that
E10 has been used in the USA for a few years. I only discovered this
today, when I stumbled across a video entitled "Is Ethanol Bad For Your
Car's Engine?" by one of my favorite automotive engineering experts.
//https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATGSBi1kBl0////
/
/Of course wear isn't the perceived risk factor for aircraft engines;
it's water, carburettor icing, vaporisation and phase separation which
are the causes of concern. These aspects weren't covered deeply in the
video, which wasn't concerned with aircraft. Several contributions were
elicited on the forum when I last raised the topic, so I'm not seeking
replies from outside North America, thanks. of course wear isn't the
perceived risk factor for aircraft engines; it's water, carburettor
icing and phase separation which are the causes of concern. /
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 |
fuel
In 500 hours of running AvGas, I find the AvGas use in the Rotax issues min
or for us in the States:
Oil change at 25 hrs. Which I do anyway.
Fuel additive to remember. That's hard for us "old forgetfuls".
Clean the oil tank to remove lead at 100 hrs.
Cost? Adds $2.50 per hour in the States, double that overseas.
A quart of lead scavenger.
No worries about fuel components. No draining fuel or lugging cans of gas.
Airport operations fees are low in the States.
Higher overseas and in urban areas.
If you fly only 25-50 hrs. per year, it's noise level cost. If you fly 100
s of hours, from non service airports, and must transport fuel, it can make
a difference.
But in the overall cost of aircraft maintenance, it's not that much in my o
pinion. But then again, we all treat our planes differently, and have to m
eet maintenance and upkeep bills for our particular home fields.
Bud Yerly
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> on behalf of JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 10:37:15 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10
fuel
>
Bud,
Your prompt and insightful reply is appreciated, as always. It remains to b
e seen what, if any, pronouncements our Light Aircraft Association might ma
ke in the coming weeks as the September introduction of E10 draws near.
At my airfield there is 100LL available, but those of us with Rotax engines
are mindful that using it all of the time will have servicing implications
.
Thanks again.
Jonathan
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Europa tail wheel tow bar |
Thanks for all the great info!!
Regards
Jerry
Sent from my iPad
> On Jul 11, 2021, at 7:05 AM, Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jerry,
> I find the Aircraft Spruce sold Ground Support Towbar for Scott Tailwheels to
be fine for around the hangar push pull ops.
> Otherwise, the lightweight ski rope with a piece of hose for a handgrip is great
for XC use.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Jerry Rehn
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:03 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Europa tail wheel tow bar
>
>
> Looking for tow bars that work well for Europa.
> Thanks!
> Jerry
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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