---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/11/21: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:43 AM - Re: Europa tail wheel tow bar (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk) 2. 02:55 AM - Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (SPURPURA) 3. 02:59 AM - Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (h&jeuropa) 4. 07:00 AM - Re: Europa tail wheel tow bar (Bud Yerly) 5. 07:37 AM - Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (Bud Yerly) 6. 07:45 AM - Ethanol Use in a 912S (Gary Leinberger) 7. 08:14 AM - Re: Ethanol Use in a 912S (Bud Yerly) 8. 08:37 AM - Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (JonathanMilbank) 9. 09:06 AM - Re: E10 fuel (John Wigney) 10. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel (Bud Yerly) 11. 03:15 PM - Re: Europa tail wheel tow bar (Jerry Rehn) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:56 AM PST US From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa tail wheel tow bar Jerry, The clear best answer for me is one made of rope - light weight, drop it in the back without risk of damaging fibreglass, no great matter if you forget to take it off when departing. Make it yourself from thickish rope (about 15mm diameter - just right to fill gaps between big washers on tailwheel axel and not to cut into hands when pulling on it), if you can spice, if not ask a sailing friend. Two small loops with splices to fit on wheel; cross over splice about 8 ins back, about 3 or 4 ft loop to get hold of and pull on, all splices covered with heat shrink. Will send a photo when next visiting plane. David Joyce, GXSDJ On 2021-07-11 05:03, Jerry Rehn wrote: > > Looking for tow bars that work well for Europa. > Thanks! > Jerry > > Sent from my iPad > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:55:53 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel From: "SPURPURA" With over 1000 hours with a 914 and 912uls Ive not had any problems strictly using e10. You want to keep it fresh though, less than 3 months old. -------- N951EU - Tri-gear & 912ULS, N77EU- Mono & 914 I'D RATHER HAVE A BOTTLE IN FRONT OF ME THAN A FRONTAL LABOTAMY. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502784#502784 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:57 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel From: "h&jeuropa" Jonathan, Most auto fuel in the US contains ethanol but usually not more than 10% (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=27&t=10). We use nothing but auto fuel in our 914 and have done that since new, now over 1100 hours. We have not experienced any problems with risks you asked about. Perhaps some of our experience is because we live in the midwest away from salt air and extremely high temperatures. Jim & Heather Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502785#502785 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:33 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa tail wheel tow bar Jerry, I find the Aircraft Spruce sold Ground Support Towbar for Scott Tailwheels to be fine for around the hangar push pull ops. Otherwise, the lightweight ski rope with a piece of hose for a handgrip is great for XC use. Best Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of Jerry Rehn Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:03 AM Subject: Europa-List: Europa tail wheel tow bar Looking for tow bars that work well for Europa. Thanks! Jerry Sent from my iPad ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:15 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel Jonathan, Most of the US is still 5% ethanol but the pump says up to 10%. In testing here in Florida, the actual ethanol seems to be between 5-10% as advertised. I've found that as long as the fuel is used soon (within a couple weeks) it is fine with no detonation. The problem comes in with water absorption and loss of octane when in storage or non-use. I have a couple customers that use MoGas (highest octane available) in their 912 and 912S without failure or deterioration they are aware of. They just dont trust the fuel beyond three weeks. Pump out the old fuel into the car and put in fresh fuel in the plane before you go flying. With no antiknock sensors in the Rotax, one has to be careful in the 912S. The 912 doesn't mind what it runs. No vapor lock reported. If the plane is hot, there have been reports of poor starting. The remedy is run the fuel pump a little longer to flush fresh fuel into the lines and any vapor bubbles out and starts are normal. Cold weather starts are always better with AvGas. My article on my website is still accurate and many other writers on-line and in magazines agree that it is safe to use the highest octanes if fresh. I do see deterioration in the Redux used in the fuel boss course screens when using ethanol laced fuel, over time, but it isn't bad. My old Piersburg fuel pumps got brittle, but they were old so no long term testing was done to see if it was just age or the fuel. Fuel hoses that are lined (R-7 or better aka vapor barrier hose) control the stinky gas and hold up for years. Tank material is not an issue. Watch your float bowls for corrosion if you insist on leaving the bowls full of old MoGas. Use a fuel system stabilizer for storage, but better yet, drain the carbs and fuel pumps. The Rotax O rings seem to hold up well in the carbs, but down at Lockwood Kerry has seen some crumbling O rings in those plane that get little use (old gas) or any preemptive maintenance. See my website, and the many articles on-line that give the pros and cons of course. Since I keep my aircraft at an airport, I use AvGas in my 914. I ran fresh 93 octane (R+M/2 method over here) in it one time to see how it ran, and it was OK for that test hop which ran from sea level to 10K at max continuous power then cruised and it seemed to run well. I researched octane and its rating system, and the general consensus is octane ratings are fairly conservative. Best Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of JonathanMilbank Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2021 11:49 AM Subject: Europa-List: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel I'll get straight to my question which is "Does anyone in the United States experience problems in Europa aircraft fitted with Rotax 912 engines when using E10 gasoline purchased from filling stations?" Several weeks ago I posed this question to European pilots and got 2 replies indicating that they don't have problems using E10, which we are about to have introduced in the UK in September. When I first addressed this question the Europeans, I was unaware that E10 has been used in the USA for a few years. I only discovered this today, when I stumbled across a video entitled "Is Ethanol Bad For Your Car's Engine?" by one of my favorite automotive engineering experts. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DATGSBi1kBl0&data=04%7C01%7C%7C73d351c75a8f49e9012a08d943bac873%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637615291768794317%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NVM%2BeeFVxPln5GHGd2ncmLadqm9SXbw0CQwrLGDL6d0%3D&reserved=0 Of course wear isn't the perceived risk factor for aircraft engines; it's water, carburettor icing, vaporisation and phase separation which are the causes of concern. These aspects weren't covered deeply in the video, which wasn't concerned with aircraft. Several contributions were elicited on the forum when I last raised the topic, so I'm not seeking replies from outside North America, thanks. of course wear isn't the perceived risk factor for aircraft engines; it's water, carburettor icing and phase separation which are the causes of concern. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D16776903&data=04%7C01%7C%7C73d351c75a8f49e9012a08d943bac873%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637615291768794317%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=kgjTZCV92HIVPfKYlqcvhOp7pjPdqU46hqSBYM2FD%2BI%3D&reserved=0 Read this topic online here: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D502776%23502776&data=04%7C01%7C%7C73d351c75a8f49e9012a08d943bac873%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637615291768794317%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=esltPSyaX%2Be%2BMgW%2B%2FI2SzgoaEajERmbW%2BSe4ZFoeEmE%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:53 AM PST US From: Gary Leinberger Subject: Europa-List: Ethanol Use in a 912S I have been using 93 octane ethanol fuel for nine years in my 912S (and occ asionally 100LL). I have had absolutely no problems. I check my fuel for wa ter and have never had any. My fuel lines are fuel injection-quality car li nes which I just replaced on my last annual. In looking at the old ones I c ould see no problems. Dr. Gary Leinberger Accounting and Finance Department Lombardo College of Business Millersville University McComsey 340 gleinberger@millersville.edu No Summer Office Hours On Sabbatical for Fall 2021 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:54 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ethanol Use in a 912S Gary also has a convenient fuel drain petcock under the cowl to swap his fu el quickly to keep his fuel fresh. Bud Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Gary Leinberger Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 9:45:26 AM r Subject: Europa-List: Ethanol Use in a 912S I have been using 93 octane ethanol fuel for nine years in my 912S (and occ asionally 100LL). I have had absolutely no problems. I check my fuel for wa ter and have never had any. My fuel lines are fuel injection-quality car li nes which I just replaced on my last annual. In looking at the old ones I c ould see no problems. Dr. Gary Leinberger Accounting and Finance Department Lombardo College of Business Millersville University McComsey 340 gleinberger@millersville.edu No Summer Office Hours On Sabbatical for Fall 2021 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:32 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel From: "JonathanMilbank" Bud, Your prompt and insightful reply is appreciated, as always. It remains to be seen what, if any, pronouncements our Light Aircraft Association might make in the coming weeks as the September introduction of E10 draws near. At my airfield there is 100LL available, but those of us with Rotax engines are mindful that using it all of the time will have servicing implications. Thanks again. Jonathan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=502792#502792 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:06:56 AM PST US From: John Wigney Subject: Europa-List: Re: E10 fuel Hi Jonathan, I have 1,090 hours on my Europa XS mono with a 912S engine. Initially, for convenience at my local airport, I used 100LL but for many years now I have been using standard US autogas labelled as 93 octane E10. When I am traveling, I simply top up with 100LL until I get back to home base. Some observations :- * The engine starts OK from cold with full choke on either fuel. * As the engine warms up, I can bleed off the choke much quicker with 100LL than with autogas. When the engine has warmed up, there is no perceptible difference in operation or power. * When starting the engine from hot, the engine will fire much quicker with 100LL. With autogas, there may be a tendency for vapour lock or it may be over rich from evaporation - in any event, it may be necessary to cycle the throttle to open and closed before the engine fires. * US automobile 93 octane fuel is usually grade E10, meaning it can contain up to 10% alcohol. * Rotax service instruction SI-912i-001r3 states that E10 fuel is approved.. * It is very obvious that when using 100LL, the oil is much dirtier and the oil and filter should be changed every 25 hours. * In 1,090 hours of operation with both fuels, I have never seen any evidence of water in 100LL or 93 autogas. Cheers, John N262WF Mooresville, North Carolina /Subject: Europa-List: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel From: "JonathanMilbank" ////// / /I'll get straight to my question which is "Does anyone in the United States experience problems in Europa aircraft fitted with Rotax 912 engines when using E10 gasoline purchased from filling stations?" Several weeks ago I posed this question to European pilots and got 2 replies indicating that they don't have problems using E10, which we are about to have introduced in the UK in September. // / /When I first addressed this question the Europeans, I was unaware that E10 has been used in the USA for a few years. I only discovered this today, when I stumbled across a video entitled "Is Ethanol Bad For Your Car's Engine?" by one of my favorite automotive engineering experts. //https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATGSBi1kBl0//// / /Of course wear isn't the perceived risk factor for aircraft engines; it's water, carburettor icing, vaporisation and phase separation which are the causes of concern. These aspects weren't covered deeply in the video, which wasn't concerned with aircraft. Several contributions were elicited on the forum when I last raised the topic, so I'm not seeking replies from outside North America, thanks. of course wear isn't the perceived risk factor for aircraft engines; it's water, carburettor icing and phase separation which are the causes of concern. / ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:42:40 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel In 500 hours of running AvGas, I find the AvGas use in the Rotax issues min or for us in the States: Oil change at 25 hrs. Which I do anyway. Fuel additive to remember. That's hard for us "old forgetfuls". Clean the oil tank to remove lead at 100 hrs. Cost? Adds $2.50 per hour in the States, double that overseas. A quart of lead scavenger. No worries about fuel components. No draining fuel or lugging cans of gas. Airport operations fees are low in the States. Higher overseas and in urban areas. If you fly only 25-50 hrs. per year, it's noise level cost. If you fly 100 s of hours, from non service airports, and must transport fuel, it can make a difference. But in the overall cost of aircraft maintenance, it's not that much in my o pinion. But then again, we all treat our planes differently, and have to m eet maintenance and upkeep bills for our particular home fields. Bud Yerly Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of JonathanMilbank Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 10:37:15 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Question for United States friends regarding E10 fuel > Bud, Your prompt and insightful reply is appreciated, as always. It remains to b e seen what, if any, pronouncements our Light Aircraft Association might ma ke in the coming weeks as the September introduction of E10 draws near. At my airfield there is 100LL available, but those of us with Rotax engines are mindful that using it all of the time will have servicing implications .. Thanks again. Jonathan Read this topic online here: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma tronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D502792%23502792&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7 bd72bb486b5476bf0e908d944823318%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0% 7C637616148251523351%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2 luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OeghUEfwGJr17oqzp7q bd7I0sYKhgRK0nSwNoCc%2F8wk%3D&reserved=0 %2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7bd7 2bb486b5476bf0e908d944823318%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6 37616148251533343%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bifckx4M7LjNZo2NSjq5E6 yDadzwrgg5AVIj%2FdhY78s%3D&reserved=0 %2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7bd72bb486b5476bf0e908d9 44823318%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637616148251533343%7C Unknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BbrxbOln61R6tkIeS6kjYegf4ejKQvH3%2BCltd9qV 6Ho%3D&reserved=0 %2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7bd72bb486b5476bf0e908d944 823318%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637616148251533343%7CUn known%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BvpvtQpJDNJ0Gat%2BkV4zcuYa0f3252HTrrQ%2BaRsJ 0d8%3D&reserved=0 %2Fwww.matronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C7bd72bb486b5476 bf0e908d944823318%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637616148251 533343%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6 Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=meSNKRlE6kDfPDTGwYQO9dkfYmdNTyRiU DWNtrwrcBg%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:09 PM PST US From: Jerry Rehn Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa tail wheel tow bar Thanks for all the great info!! Regards Jerry Sent from my iPad > On Jul 11, 2021, at 7:05 AM, Bud Yerly wrote: > > > Jerry, > I find the Aircraft Spruce sold Ground Support Towbar for Scott Tailwheels to be fine for around the hangar push pull ops. > Otherwise, the lightweight ski rope with a piece of hose for a handgrip is great for XC use. > > Best Regards, > Bud Yerly > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of Jerry Rehn > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:03 AM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Europa tail wheel tow bar > > > Looking for tow bars that work well for Europa. > Thanks! > Jerry > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.