Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 11:56 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming Soon! (Matt Dralle)
1. 06:42 AM - Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (Hitchflight)
2. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (Bud Yerly)
3. 05:57 PM - Noisy cockpit (n7188u)
4. 08:17 PM - Re: Noisy cockpit (Bud Yerly)
5. 08:30 PM - Re: Oil temperature issue during climb (n7188u)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Coming Soon! |
Dear Listers,
There's just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser and that means
the List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! In December I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
https://matronics.com/contribution
Or, drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that
keeps these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
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| Subject: | Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
budyerly@msn.com wrote:
> Im about to upset everyone, but Ill be the bad guy.
>
> Many of us have expressed opinions about the latest LAA Mod 15833 from the LAA
and the directives mandatory time frame to install. Some have complained the
Europa door loss has disturbed the controlling agencies quiet bureaucratic life
thereby forcing engineering solutions to be implemented on the double.
>
> My desire is not to upset everyone, Im not intending to, but more of a reminder
of pilot responsibilities and training.
>
> The UK Europa fliers have lost 8 doors in roughly the last year. In the US,
I see or hear of about one door lost every other year or slightly longer. This
is a real problem for the Europa community.
>
> If we were teenagers, it is like taking the family car out and riding around
and you are driving a bit too fast for the T intersection and hit a curb and wall
damaging the right front wheel and suspension of the car also. Costing the
family perhaps thousands and increasing insurance rates (perhaps loss of insurance)
and weeks of downtime. The curb you hit is in the historic district of
your town. So, you get grounded, no car privileges and out money as Dad insists
you learn the lesson and pay for your mistake. The mayor has had 8 traffic
incidents in this area and directs the city hall to make a law forbidding traffic
in this area unless a special collision avoidance equipment system is purchased
and installed on all vehicles transiting the historic district. I know
that is a bit much of an example, but lets take a rather subjective view of
objective data from the Europa door loss incidents.
>
> Ill condense this down to the vitals and put out a pdf on my website and perhaps
the Club will pick it up. If Andys and my data are correct, this may be an
essential for our second hand owners to review. No pilot worth his salt ever
turned down training about his aircraft.
>
> If you care to, read the attached draft pdf in work that has more of the details.
None of us have all the answers. But our cumulative collaboration may drastically
reverse a current trend.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
Hi Bud
A welcome addition to the discussion on this very topical subject. Many thanks
for the time and effort you have put in. The Club accepts your offer to publish.
Editor Tony Wickens has told me he has been able toinclude in the next Europa
Flyer issue. Goes to the publisher this week. So just in time.
Safety messages need to be circulated as widely as possible. Your article adds
to and in many ways, compliments the words of Ivan, Andy and Brian. Thankyou!
How The Europa Club continues to get the message out:
This excellent Matronics listing routinely has 40 or more people regularly reviewing
which surges when a really populate topic such as this one hits. These
readers are often long-standing members of the Europa Community.
The Europa Club Magazine is posted to and read by 422 Europa Club Members three
times a year. Including long-standing and second owners of the Europa aircraft.
The Europa Club Website enjoys 2500 - 3000 regular followers. (Definition: Unique
IP address logging into The Europa Club website more than twice a month.).
Though popular with an anecdotal 40% of the membership viewing regularly, it is
the magazine that remains the most popular source of information..
The Europa Club enjoys 89% of Europa aircraft owners as Members worldwide. Australia,
Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Norway,
Poland, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands,
United Kingdom, Ukraine, United States of America.
There are informal non Europa Club sponsored groups on social media. These groupings
are not necessarily Club sponsored..
The LAA Engineering team wrote to every operator/builder of a Europa within the
United Kingdom to promulgate.
Regards
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=504356#504356
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| Subject: | Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt |
stop
Thanks Bob,
I like the way you are handling this trend at the Club.
I hope we are able to arrest the trend growing in the States.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of Hitchflight
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 9:43 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop
budyerly@msn.com wrote:
> Im about to upset everyone, but Ill be the bad guy.
>
> Many of us have expressed opinions about the latest LAA Mod 15833 from the LAA
and the directives mandatory time frame to install. Some have complained the
Europa door loss has disturbed the controlling agencies quiet bureaucratic life
thereby forcing engineering solutions to be implemented on the double.
>
> My desire is not to upset everyone, Im not intending to, but more of a reminder
of pilot responsibilities and training.
>
> The UK Europa fliers have lost 8 doors in roughly the last year. In the US,
I see or hear of about one door lost every other year or slightly longer. This
is a real problem for the Europa community.
>
> If we were teenagers, it is like taking the family car out and riding around
and you are driving a bit too fast for the T intersection and hit a curb and wall
damaging the right front wheel and suspension of the car also. Costing the
family perhaps thousands and increasing insurance rates (perhaps loss of insurance)
and weeks of downtime. The curb you hit is in the historic district of
your town. So, you get grounded, no car privileges and out money as Dad insists
you learn the lesson and pay for your mistake. The mayor has had 8 traffic
incidents in this area and directs the city hall to make a law forbidding traffic
in this area unless a special collision avoidance equipment system is purchased
and installed on all vehicles transiting the historic district. I know
that is a bit much of an example, but lets take a rather subjective view of
objective data from the Europa door loss incidents.
>
> Ill condense this down to the vitals and put out a pdf on my website and perhaps
the Club will pick it up. If Andys and my data are correct, this may be an
essential for our second hand owners to review. No pilot worth his salt ever
turned down training about his aircraft.
>
> If you care to, read the attached draft pdf in work that has more of the details.
None of us have all the answers. But our cumulative collaboration may drastically
reverse a current trend.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
Hi Bud
A welcome addition to the discussion on this very topical subject. Many thanks
for the time and effort you have put in. The Club accepts your offer to publish.
Editor Tony Wickens has told me he has been able toinclude in the next Europa
Flyer issue. Goes to the publisher this week. So just in time.
Safety messages need to be circulated as widely as possible. Your article adds
to and in many ways, compliments the words of Ivan, Andy and Brian. Thankyou!
How The Europa Club continues to get the message out:
This excellent Matronics listing routinely has 40 or more people regularly reviewing
which surges when a really populate topic such as this one hits. These
readers are often long-standing members of the Europa Community.
The Europa Club Magazine is posted to and read by 422 Europa Club Members three
times a year. Including long-standing and second owners of the Europa aircraft.
The Europa Club Website enjoys 2500 - 3000 regular followers. (Definition: Unique
IP address logging into The Europa Club website more than twice a month.).
Though popular with an anecdotal 40% of the membership viewing regularly, it is
the magazine that remains the most popular source of information..
The Europa Club enjoys 89% of Europa aircraft owners as Members worldwide. Australia,
Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark,
Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Norway,
Poland, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands,
United Kingdom, Ukraine, United States of America.
There are informal non Europa Club sponsored groups on social media. These groupings
are not necessarily Club sponsored..
The LAA Engineering team wrote to every operator/builder of a Europa within the
United Kingdom to promulgate.
Regards
Bob
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D504356%23504356&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ce44062ef96a9418530f808d9a846bcd2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637725844040378444%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=HhYJo89EfAgVyLtNpVqVSPxN7EY3yoG5Auhqv5Vfqvo%3D&reserved=0
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Dear Europa Friends,
First let me say I am really enjoying my Monowheel. This last weekend I took my
wife on a trip to Miami (first x-country on the Europa for her) and it was a
total success. She really loved it and we had a great weekend.
With that said I have a question about something that has been bothering me for
a while. Although the airplane has been great, I am trying to gain confidence
on my engine. Let me explain: My engine is a 912ULS rebuild by an iRMT Repair
Center. Not quite an overhaul though (no crankshaft change but engine was torn
down, inspected and were necessary new parts installed). The engine runs quite
nice but I did have some issue with it that have been addressed. I am having
a little difficulty fully trusting this engine as I think it feels a little
rough and noisy.
I have been told that the engine sounds great and smooth from outside the airplane
(some people thought it was an electric airplane since it is so quiet) but
I find it quite noisy inside and feels a little rough. Maybe its me being picky
since it is really not bad but I am so used to after almost 40 years of flying
behind Lycosaurus and Continentals engines that I find that my engine seems
to scream inside the Europa cockpit. Vibration is not high but I do feel what
I can only describe as a high frequency short amplitude harsh vibration in the
panel and I can hear it contributing to some level of fatigue after an hour
or so of flying. It's a bit gritty and makes me feel as if the gearbox is grinding
itself to pieces. But oil looks fine, no metal in the filter or magnetic
plug and the gearbox clutch torque check passes fine. I have balanced the carbs
multiple times. I have dynamically balanced the prop and replaced the rubber
mounts with Europa supplied ones. I have to reiterate, it's not bad and my Lycoming
on the LongEZ vibrates more but in the Rotax it feels a bit harsh and
I am not used to it. I did fly in an RV-12 with the same engine and it felt smoother.
So a few questions:
1.- Is the Europa a little noisier and transmits more vibration from the engine
than say an RV-12?
2.- My aviasport tach needle vibrates quite a bit. Like a high frequency buzz.
My altimeter also tends to wobble a bit at certain power settings. is this normal?
3.- I just installed new mounts from Europa but do you guys think that these mounts
may be a little hard and allow a bit of vibration to pass through to the
airframe. They do feel hard.
4.- Could it be just me not used to the Rotax? maybe this is perfectly normal in
the Europa and the RV-12 just happens to be a little smoother. my airplane has
not interior covering, just painted. the RV-12 I flew was covered inside.
If I just knew that it is normal for the Europa to be a little noisier than the
RV-12 inside I would relax. Just no way to know since the only Europa I have
ever flown is mine.
Best Regards and Thanks.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=504441#504441
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Chris,
I'm surprised, as the Rotax with the Europa supplied CKT muffler is quite q
uiet with the 912S.
N12AY is a trigear. With the sealed tunnel and 914 it is very quiet. Most
passengers in it are amazed at how quiet and smooth it is.
That said, the Mono tends to be noisier due to the wheel well and airflow t
hrough the tunnel.
The 912S is not that much noisier than the 914. Turbos with a muffler real
ly quiets it.
The 912S is a bit rougher of an engine than the 914. But it is smoother th
an a Lycoming.
The RV and Zenith Rotax powered aircraft are noisy in my opinion (I've flow
n a lot of Zeniths). The metal tends to reflect the noise in the cockpit
The LSA metal aircraft are not terribly noisy with an interior and properly
fitted canopy.
A properly built composite aircraft is very solid sounding. Free from oil
canning noises common in metal aircraft.
In my articles on my website and other places I give some typical causes of
vibration. Word doc attached of an old one.
In my Rotax troubleshooting guide I make mention of the carb balance tuning
. I normally can balance a Rotax by ear and visual inspection.
If the mag drop (ignition check) is at the limit or a touch higher, you hav
e carb balance and or ignition issues.
Here are some tips for smoothness some folks don't realize:
Run up the engine and if your calves begin to vibrate, it is the propeller.
Your calf muscle is about the 1/4 harmonic of the prop.
If the prop has one blade out by a 1/2 degree the vibration is awful. Make
sure the prop blade angles are as close as possible to one another. If yo
u didn't static balance your prop with the spinner. You must.
Trying to find noise and vibration is straight forward:
On the ground: Tied down.
Pull the cowl and run the engine and note the ignition modules. They shoul
d be steady from idle to full power. I mean you should be able to read the
serial number at idle and fuzzy up to 4000. After 4000 the uncowled engin
e is hard to read.
Check the exhaust and look for any broken springs, down pipes and make sure
the reflector shield is secure and doesn't rattle. The muffler and pipes
should not contact the cowl or engine frame.
Check the Binx nuts are tight and the frame is tight.
Check the propeller tracking while its running. (Safely abeam the prop arc
at low power and well clear.) I know that's odd, but it happens that blad
es have been known to flex. One poorly seated blade can be seen.
Check the spinner tracks. Europa classic spinners are tough to get precise
ly smooth. And they are long and heavy.
Have the propeller dynamically balanced. (The Europa is a very light aircr
aft and the whole airframe shakes from the prop blast sometimes making a pr
op balance difficult.) It may need to be done in flight.
I've flown hard and soft mounts. Neither had a noise difference or vibrati
on.
Listen to your exhaust note. If very loud you probably have a modified muf
fler or its blown out a baffle. The Rotax can sound like one of those rice
burner cars the kids run around in if the muffler is not either a Rotax or
the even quieter CKT muffler.
There are a number of mufflers for the Rotax. Some are awful. I'm prejudi
ced in that the CKT is the nicest note. That's why it is used by most of t
he manufacturers in Europe as it meets the DB level.
Look for engine to cowl rub marks.
Ground Airframe Checks:
Run the engine at various RPMs (roughest point preferably) and listen to th
e airframe. Put your ear next to the wing, the stabs, the fuselage.
Ground Rattle checks:
Doors without any seals will rattle a bit.
Access panels that are loose especially the cockpit ones are noisy, heavy w
ires rattle if not tied.
Rudder cables that are not properly guided and clearance and vibrate agains
t bulkheads, and fuselage unless properly supported.
The panel starboard side is often only secured at the top and will vibrate
against the fiberglass firewall.
Climb in the aircraft:
The Europa is like being in a Thermos insulated bottle. Pretty well solidl
y glued and therefore like wood in that it is devoid of skin rattles and no
ises. If you hear rattles and noises, you have components that are vibrati
ng in the structure.
Case in point: If a control rod in the wing is just barely clearing a rib,
if there is vibration, it will be transmitted to the airframe.
Feel the airframe at different RPMs. Relax your legs and feel the movement
of your butt, legs, and arms.
Observe your instrument panel. A shallow clear cup of water that is splash
ing is your first sign of serious vibration issues.
Check your instrument panel is not vibrating blurring the analogue instrume
nts.
The mono wheel well can be rather noisy from air flow. This depends on man
y factors:
The gaps in the gear and brake handle and any other holes. Gear frame arm
to fuselage cutout clearance.
Door seals are important. If the door seals are leaky, there is a suction
in the cockpit formed and the air is pulled through the slots in the cockpi
t module.
Wing gap seals are necessary also as the air between the fuselage and wing
root as the air smacks into the spar then rumbles into the cockpit.
Finally, interior finish choices are important. Paint is light, but the fa
bric / padded leather interior is very quiet.
At 100 knots or less you can casually talk in 12AY. Over 120 knots indicat
ed, the wind noise outside the canopy is quite loud in any aircraft.
I've never needed ANR headsets in any of the aircraft I have built.
I'm interested in your rebuilt engine. Did they tinker with anything or is
it stock? A difference in timing makes a difference in smoothness. Like
I said before, if the muffler is one of those "Performance" mufflers. They
are loud.
Finally, paint and finish tightens up the aircraft, smooths the airflow al
so. It is like a washed car is quieter.
My test is:
If my wife can go 2000 miles in 6 hops without complaining about noise, sea
ts, or anything other than our bladders, I know my plane is comfortable and
quiet. She can't go that far in our Honda Accord. She prefers my F150 wh
en we travel.
Hopefully, you find your issues and enjoy a very quiet, comfortable aircraf
t.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of n7188u
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 8:57 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Noisy cockpit
Dear Europa Friends,
First let me say I am really enjoying my Monowheel. This last weekend I too
k my wife on a trip to Miami (first x-country on the Europa for her) and it
was a total success. She really loved it and we had a great weekend.
With that said I have a question about something that has been bothering me
for a while. Although the airplane has been great, I am trying to gain con
fidence on my engine. Let me explain: My engine is a 912ULS rebuild by an i
RMT Repair Center. Not quite an overhaul though (no crankshaft change but e
ngine was torn down, inspected and were necessary new parts installed). The
engine runs quite nice but I did have some issue with it that have been ad
dressed. I am having a little difficulty fully trusting this engine as I th
ink it feels a little rough and noisy.
I have been told that the engine sounds great and smooth from outside the a
irplane (some people thought it was an electric airplane since it is so qui
et) but I find it quite noisy inside and feels a little rough. Maybe its me
being picky since it is really not bad but I am so used to after almost 40
years of flying behind Lycosaurus and Continentals engines that I find tha
t my engine seems to scream inside the Europa cockpit. Vibration is not hig
h but I do feel what I can only describe as a high frequency short amplitud
e harsh vibration in the panel and I can hear it contributing to some level
of fatigue after an hour or so of flying. It's a bit gritty and makes me f
eel as if the gearbox is grinding itself to pieces. But oil looks fine, no
metal in the filter or magnetic plug and the gearbox clutch torque check pa
sses fine. I have balanced the carbs multiple times. I have dynamically bal
anced the prop and replaced the rubber mounts with Europa supplied ones. I
have to reiter!
ate, it's not bad and my Lycoming on the LongEZ vibrates more but in the R
otax it feels a bit harsh and I am not used to it. I did fly in an RV-12 wi
th the same engine and it felt smoother. So a few questions:
1.- Is the Europa a little noisier and transmits more vibration from the en
gine than say an RV-12?
2.- My aviasport tach needle vibrates quite a bit. Like a high frequency bu
zz. My altimeter also tends to wobble a bit at certain power settings. is t
his normal?
3.- I just installed new mounts from Europa but do you guys think that thes
e mounts may be a little hard and allow a bit of vibration to pass through
to the airframe. They do feel hard.
4.- Could it be just me not used to the Rotax? maybe this is perfectly norm
al in the Europa and the RV-12 just happens to be a little smoother. my air
plane has not interior covering, just painted. the RV-12 I flew was covered
inside.
If I just knew that it is normal for the Europa to be a little noisier than
the RV-12 inside I would relax. Just no way to know since the only Europa
I have ever flown is mine.
Best Regards and Thanks.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Oil temperature issue during climb |
The engine in my mono is the 912uls so could be different but it runs very cool
even in the Florida heat. I was concerned given reports of cooling issues in
the Europa but I can attest the system works very well. In fact, my engine tends
to run too cool. What I did based on Buds guidance:
1.- Absolutely seal the duct to cowling edges and all areas around the coolers
to ensure air will only go through the coolers.
2.- The sides of the coolers are sealed as Bud described using aluminum baffles.
3.- I have a baffle at the bottom of the water cooler that seals against the oil
cooler front face forcing all air through the water cooler and the bottom of
the oil cooler which is lowered as far as possible. This does limit the flow
through the upper part of the oil cooler but provides more pressure differential
area to the water one. Works well in my case. But key is to ensure no pressure
differential is lost.
4.- I was very picky about creating nice air flow diffusers at the duct inlet.
Both top and bottom. Not the sides which are just sealed with baffling seals against
the cowling. The upper diffuser and duct sides are tightly sealed against
the cowl to prevent any air spilling out.
5.- I made a completely different firewall design than the one Europa calls for
based on Buds guidance. I am super happy with it as it provides a lot of space
behind the engine and provides a larger and smoother air exit. It was very easy
to make and install. Dunno why Europa doesnt just do it this way. I am sure
this is really helping overall air flow through the engine compartment.
6.- Cowling is stock. No modifications except the inlet diffusers. I never opened
the gills but the starboard naca scoop is open.
As Bud said and I learned the hard way too, always check sensors first!
Chris
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