Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:02 AM - Re: Trim setting question (Peter Jeffers)
2. 08:26 AM - What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (h&jeuropa)
3. 08:42 AM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (h&jeuropa)
4. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (fklein@orcasonline.com)
5. 09:03 AM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (Rowland Carson)
6. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Fuel stabilizer (Paul Munford)
7. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (Robert Borger)
8. 01:04 PM - Re: Trim setting question (h&jeuropa)
9. 01:36 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (Rowland Carson)
10. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Trim setting question (Pete)
11. 02:48 PM - 2021 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
12. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: Trim setting question (timward)
13. 05:46 PM - Re: Trim setting question (Kingsley Hurst)
14. 05:52 PM - Re: Trim setting question (Kingsley Hurst)
15. 06:01 PM - Re: Trim setting question (Pete)
16. 08:55 PM - Fw: [europa-committee] What did you do (timward)
17. 09:05 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (rparigoris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Just remember that during build you are allowed a tolerance of round about
1 degree in the tail plane incidence. This is enough to change your trim
settings for any particular situation. It will also explain differences
between various aeroplanes.
Pete J
On Sun, 26 Dec 2021, 13:53 Bud Yerly, <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 25, 2021, 7:35 PM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Europa-List: Trim setting question
>
> As Tim said.
>
> Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim. From
> takeoff to cruise it is all down trim.
>
>
> Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some cases as
> the incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim is needed
> as speed increases
>
>
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> *From:* owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> *On Behalf Of *Pete
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Europa-List: Trim setting question
>
>
> Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone :)
>
>
> That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse
> moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is
> not lined up with the fuse moulding in flight. I find that odd.
>
>
> Cheers and Merry Christmas!
>
> PeteZ
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> =EF=BBHi Pete,
>
> I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real
> gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> Tim Ward
>
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>
> Fendalton,
>
> Christchurch, 8052
>
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>
> 021 0640221
>
>
> On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
>
> Curious: My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is
> generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up
> trim).
>
>
> Is this what other folks are seeing?
>
>
> Cheers and thx,
>
> PeteZ
>
> C-GNPZ classic 912S
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 |
Most days at our house begin with a cup of coffee and then to the computer. I
check email, weather, Matronics and Facebook for new posts. I also check new
posts on VansAirForce.net. On the weekends the VAF moderator starts a thread
entitled What did you do with your RV this weekend? I find this thread interesting.
Often there are flying stories, but also building stories, photos or motivational
posts.
Id like to do the same here on Matronics and I hope Europa owners around the world
will join in. Our flying season in Michigan is about to end with snow on
the grass runway, but those of you in the southern US, southern Europe and southern
hemisphere should be going great guns. Show us what you are doing!
Ill start a new thread each week.
Jim Butcher
N241BW XS Mono 914
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505392#505392
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 |
Sunday was a beautiful afternoon in southern Michigan. Temps were above freezing
and the sun was out. A short flight along the Lake Michigan shoreline was
the result. The snow from three weeks ago is all gone - green Christmas. Finn
enjoyed the flight too!
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505393#505393
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2c5_dec_26_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/finn_small_946.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_177.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 |
- 12/26
Here in the PNW, our rare white Christmas continues while I awakened to even rarer
temps of -11 degrees Celsius. November one niner four X-ray Sierra, full of
coolant good down to -36 degrees F, and with 3/4 tank of ethanol-free mogas,
rests in her un-heated hangar.
Task for today is pattern-making for long-delayed leather covering of seat and
seat back cushions; industrial seamstress is lined up for early January.
Happy New Year,
Fred
> On Dec 27, 2021, at 8:42 AM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Sunday was a beautiful afternoon in southern Michigan. Temps were above freezing
and the sun was out. A short flight along the Lake Michigan shoreline was
the result. The snow from three weeks ago is all gone - green Christmas. Finn
enjoyed the flight too!
>
> Jim & Heather
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - |
12/26
On 2021-12-27, at 16:26, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
> Id like to do the same here on Matronics and I hope Europa owners around the
world will join in
> Show us what you are doing!
Jim - thanks for this initiative. My Europa is still (STILL!) in build. Major items
left to do are glazing the cockpit then filling and painting the fuselage,
plus many other fiddly wee bits.
This past week I have traced a fault in my fuel weighing system and fixed it; also
done a very rough calibration of my MGL FF-1 fuel indicator by filling a tube
as a manometer.
See the website for more details of the long story . . .
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel stabilizer |
Thanks for your replies to my question about fuel stabilizers.
All the best to Europa owners/flyers & builders for 2022 , - it's got to be
better than this year ??
Paul Munford - Kit 625. G-OVPM
-----Original Message-----
From: h&jeuropa
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 7:31 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel stabilizer
Paul,
We've used Stabil every winter for over 15 years with no problems. We are
located in Michigan and due to snow, the airplane is stored in unheated
hangar from late December until March.
We try to have the tank about 1/2 full (8 gallons or so) with our usual
Mogas. We pour in the Stabil per their instructions and run the electric
pumps (914) with the throttle open. In the Spring, we top the tank with
fresh Mogas, do a detailed runup, take a couple circuits around our home
airport and then fly as usual.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505354#505354
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 |
- 12/26
I sure hope all yall had a wonderful Christmas!
Ive spent the last week chasing down a squeak in the aileron rigging. Finally
found it this morning. Inside the fuselage, of course. A tufnol bearing seems
to be the culprit. Applied a bit of Tri-flow Superior Lubricant with PTFE and
that seems to have done the trick. No more obnoxious squeak. Now all I
have to do is put the airplane back together.
Have a Great Happy and Prosperous New Year!
Blue skies and gentle winds,
Bob Borger
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 27, 2021, at 10:45, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
Sunday was a beautiful afternoon in southern Michigan. Temps were above freezing
and the sun was out. A short flight along the Lake Michigan shoreline was
the result. The snow from three weeks ago is all gone - green Christmas. Finn
enjoyed the flight too!
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505393#505393
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2c5_dec_26_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/finn_small_946.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_177.jpg
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Interesting this has come up. Our trim has always been near the bottom of the
indicator in cruise. I assumed it was because we usually traveled with Jethro,
a 50 pound dog in the rear. But after Jethro died, we adopted Finn who is only
20 pounds. The trim still is near the bottom which confirms the operation
is correct.
I verified the tailplane trim tab relationship like Pete Z and all is well. The
change in CG between 50# and 20# isn't much so it all makes sense.
I haven't verified, but I understand that the trim motor runs further than the
indicator, ie you have more down trim available after the indicator is at the
bottom.
I use the trim indicator a lot. The "0" or middle position trims the plane for
about 65 kts with gear extended. That is the takeoff configuration. During landing
I set the trim to one or two lines above the "0" position which results
in about 55 -60 kts with gear extended. With the speed set, I control rate of
descent with power. It works nicely.
Jim & Heather
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505397#505397
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - |
12/26
On 2021-12-27, at 16:26, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
> Id like to do the same here on Matronics and I hope Europa owners around the
world will join in
> Show us what you are doing!
Jim - thanks for this initiative. My Europa is still (STILL!) in build. Major items
left to do are glazing the cockpit then filling and painting the fuselage,
plus many other fiddly wee bits.
This past week I have traced a fault in my fuel weighing system and fixed it; also
done a very rough calibration of my MGL FF-1 fuel indicator by filling a tube
as a manometer.
See the website for more details of the long story . . .
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Sounds familar, tho with full power and your trim setting, I've got alot of push
required on climbout- not good (to me). I take off with the indicator pretty
well half way down the down side for a more balanced stick, which results in
a forward trimmed stick on engine failure, which i prefer.
Cheers!
PeteZ
> On Dec 27, 2021, at 4:11 PM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Interesting this has come up. Our trim has always been near the bottom of the
indicator in cruise. I assumed it was because we usually traveled with Jethro,
a 50 pound dog in the rear. But after Jethro died, we adopted Finn who is
only 20 pounds. The trim still is near the bottom which confirms the operation
is correct.
>
> I verified the tailplane trim tab relationship like Pete Z and all is well. The
change in CG between 50# and 20# isn't much so it all makes sense.
>
> I haven't verified, but I understand that the trim motor runs further than the
indicator, ie you have more down trim available after the indicator is at the
bottom.
>
> I use the trim indicator a lot. The "0" or middle position trims the plane for
about 65 kts with gear extended. That is the takeoff configuration. During
landing I set the trim to one or two lines above the "0" position which results
in about 55 -60 kts with gear extended. With the speed set, I control rate
of descent with power. It works nicely.
>
> Jim & Heather
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505397#505397
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | 2021 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2021 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of
weeks ago and it's time that I published this year's List of Contributors (LOC).
It is the people on this list that directly make these Email Lists and Forums
possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection
up and running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
https://matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2021 Fund Raiser List of Contributors (LOC):
https://matronics.com/loc
Thank you again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List & Forum Administrator
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Pete,
Agree, I set three units down for take-off.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
> On 28/12/2021, at 11:08 AM, Pete <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
>
> Sounds familar, tho with full power and your trim setting, I've got alot o
f push required on climbout- not good (to me). I take off with the indicator
pretty well half way down the down side for a more balanced stick, which re
sults in a forward trimmed stick on engine failure, which i prefer.
>
> Cheers!
> PeteZ
>
>> On Dec 27, 2021, at 4:11 PM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>>
t.net>
>>
>> Interesting this has come up. Our trim has always been near the bottom o
f the indicator in cruise. I assumed it was because we usually traveled wit
h Jethro, a 50 pound dog in the rear. But after Jethro died, we adopted Fin
n who is only 20 pounds. The trim still is near the bottom which confirms t
he operation is correct.
>>
>> I verified the tailplane trim tab relationship like Pete Z and all is wel
l. The change in CG between 50# and 20# isn't much so it all makes sense.
>>
>> I haven't verified, but I understand that the trim motor runs further tha
n the indicator, ie you have more down trim available after the indicator is
at the bottom.
>>
>> I use the trim indicator a lot. The "0" or middle position trims the pla
ne for about 65 kts with gear extended. That is the takeoff configuration. D
uring landing I set the trim to one or two lines above the "0" position whic
h results in about 55 -60 kts with gear extended. With the speed set, I con
trol rate of descent with power. It works nicely.
>>
>> Jim & Heather
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505397#505397
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Pete,
To answer your question ....... yes.
The thing that intrigues me is not the fact that nose down trim is needed because
that is quite normal but the fact that it needs so much nose down trim.
A few years ago I asked the question on this list ........ why is the trim/antiservo
tab always displaced so far upwards in cruise (nose down)? I asked this
because I observed it in many photos of Europas taken in flight on an angle from
which the trim tab could be observed.
It must cause considerable drag I would think!
Cheers
Kingsley in Oz
Sent from my iPhone
> On 27 Dec 2021, at 3:48 am, Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
>
> Curious: My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set
quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).
>
> Is this what other folks are seeing?
>
> Cheers and thx,
> PeteZ
> C-GNPZ classic 912S
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Hello Pete,
I=99m at a loss to understand how the tailplane incidence can be set w
ith a fully flying tailplane. Is there an explanation please?
Best regards
Your antipodean cousin
Kingsley
Sent from my iPhone
> On 27 Dec 2021, at 9:10 pm, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers02@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Just remember that during build you are allowed a tolerance of round about
1 degree in the tail plane incidence. This is enough to change your trim se
ttings for any particular situation. It will also explain differences betwee
n various aeroplanes.
> Pete J
>
>> On Sun, 26 Dec 2021, 13:53 Bud Yerly, <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for Android
>>
>> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021, 7:35 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trim setting question
>>
>> As Tim said.
>>
>> Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim. =46rom t
akeoff to cruise it is all down trim.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some cases as
the incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim is needed a
s speed increases
>>
>>
>>
>> Happy Holidays,
>>
>> Bud Yerly
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@ma
tronics.com> On Behalf Of Pete
>> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim setting question
>>
>>
>>
>> Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone :)
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse mouldi
ng, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is not lined
up with the fuse moulding in flight. I find that odd.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers and Merry Christmas!
>>
>> PeteZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BBHi Pete,
>>
>> I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real
gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> Tim Ward
>>
>> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>>
>> Fendalton,
>>
>> Christchurch, 8052
>>
>> New Zealand.
>>
>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>>
>> 021 0640221
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB
>>
>> Curious: My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is general
ly set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this what other folks are seeing?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers and thx,
>>
>> PeteZ
>>
>> C-GNPZ classic 912S
>>
>>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Indeed I remember that question back in the day! :-)
Now i understand why ;-)
Thx!
PeteZ
> On Dec 27, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> Pete,
>
> To answer your question ....... yes.
>
> The thing that intrigues me is not the fact that nose down trim is needed because
that is quite normal but the fact that it needs so much nose down trim.
>
> A few years ago I asked the question on this list ........ why is the trim/antiservo
tab always displaced so far upwards in cruise (nose down)? I asked this
because I observed it in many photos of Europas taken in flight on an angle
from which the trim tab could be observed.
>
> It must cause considerable drag I would think!
>
> Cheers
> Kingsley in Oz
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 27 Dec 2021, at 3:48 am, Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Curious: My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally
set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).
>>
>> Is this what other folks are seeing?
>>
>> Cheers and thx,
>> PeteZ
>> C-GNPZ classic 912S
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fwd: [europa-committee] What did you do |
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
Begin forwarded message:
> From: timward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
> Date: 28 December 2021 at 5:49:58 PM NZDT
> To: europa-committee@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [europa-committee] What did you do
>
> =EF=BB
> =EF=BBJim,
> Great idea!
> In the last month I worked on the speed kit fairings for the outriggers an
d tailwheel.
> They needed protection to withstand the loose stones from a paved tarmac, p
articularly the tailwheel fairing, which gets substantially damaged due to b
eing in direct line with the main wheel. Using carbon fibre I did two layups
, using peel ply, and then a coating of UV West System epoxy. Photo of outr
igger show peel ply stage before trimming.
> Also installed flashing LED Landing lights on the bottom engine cowl.
> See photos. Hi So far, so good.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
> 021 0640221
>
>>> On 28/12/2021, at 9:03 AM, Jim & Heather <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Starting the thread with replies: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.
php?t=16778576
>>
>> Jim
>> --
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are private and intended sol
ely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed.
>> If you are not the intended recipient of the e-mail, any files transmitte
d to you in error, any copying, distribution or other use of the information
contained in them is strictly prohibited. The Europa Club=99s compute
r systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to s
ecure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
>>
>> The Europa Club is a group of individuals drawn together by their interes
t in the Europa kit aircraft. They include builders, pilots, and those who s
imply want to know more about the Europa type. The Europa Club is registered
as a Type Club of the Light Aircraft Association of the UK.
>> 2021
>> *********************************************************************
>> For more information about the Europa Club,
>> please visit our web site at http://www.theeuropaclub.org
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 |
Hi Group
Managed to get:
Radiator Duct installed and plumbed:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VgeRkG5WEVIwYZdgWhA
Oil Catch Can installed and plumbed:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9Vgd9Zg8VDKuuS_4O8vw
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VgeRupcM8vPjXKOb9ZA
Fuel Pressure Regulator plumbed with Aeroquip666-6 hose and fabricated 416SS banjo
fittings:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VgeNuuvciL8jMlN7RQw
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VgeNjQaNSlLHl4g3BzA
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VgeQEcfbZBFCSxUWNxQ
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505494#505494
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