Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:22 AM - Propeller Sizing (Monoman)
2. 03:32 AM - Re: Propeller Sizing (Dave Disney)
3. 04:07 AM - Screw sizes (arwel pritchard)
4. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (Mike)
5. 05:33 AM - Re: Screw sizes (clivesutton)
6. 05:40 AM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (clivesutton)
7. 08:22 AM - Re: Screw sizes (budyerly@msn.com)
8. 08:43 AM - Re: Propeller Sizing (budyerly@msn.com)
9. 08:44 AM - Re: Propeller Sizing (budyerly@msn.com)
10. 10:03 AM - Re: Trim setting question (Roger Sheridan)
11. 12:45 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (Pete Zut)
12. 06:34 PM - Re: Trim setting question (Pete)
13. 06:38 PM - What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 (fklein@orcasonline.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Propeller Sizing |
Hello Group
Firstly apologies if this is a repeat as I was not clear if the original had sent.
I am currently changing the engine on my classic mono (const no 33) from a Rotax
80HP to a 100HP unit.
The original engine was fitted with an Airmaster 3 blade VP fitted with Warp Drive
blades (T12981) giving a swept Dia of 62". I am very keen to retain the Airmaster
hub and have been advised by Airmaster that this set up should work for
the 100HP engine.
However I have also been advised that these blades will not be suitable and should
change to Warp Drive blades giving a swept Dia of 64".
My question is are any of you classic mono flyers out there using a 64" prop on
an Airmaster VP hub and has it worked well?
Thanks
Mike
G-DURO
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505496#505496
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Hi Mike,
Your choice of propellers is governed by the LAA. They have a document 'LAA Propeller
Type List - PTL/1 listing approved props for the Europa/engine combinations,
getting approval will be easier if you stick to something from the list.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/NewMods/Aircraft_Type_Files/247%20-%20EUROPA.pdf
Cheers
Dave
G-RJWX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505498#505498
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Good afternoon everyone,
Could someone please clarify what size are the screws that hold the
engine cowlings on, hold the wheel spats on or hold the inspection
panels on the wing underside?
Looking at the manual, I think they are 3/16" but am not sure what type
of thread they are.
I need to replace some of mine as the heads are getting slightly worn.
Thank you
Arwel
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Thanks for the reply Dave, I am aware of this list but it is not exhaustive
as I understand that there are more options that have been individually
approved.
I am also in contact with the LAA who thought that a request like this might
be useful.
I am hoping that someone has indeed fitted either a Warp Drive or other
blade type of 64" on an Airmaster hub to their classic mono.
Cheers
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Disney
Sent: 28 December 2021 11:32
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
Hi Mike,
Your choice of propellers is governed by the LAA. They have a document 'LAA
Propeller Type List - PTL/1 listing approved props for the Europa/engine
combinations, getting approval will be easier if you stick to something from
the list.
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/NewMods/Aircraft_Type_
Files/247%20-%20EUROPA.pdf
Cheers
Dave
G-RJWX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505498#505498
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Hello Arwel,
The cowl screws are usually countersunk with a Tinnerman washer, the inspection
hatch screws are dome-headed and the spats are also cross-head screws - but i
don't recall the type or length. They are all 3/16 UNF from memory.
But the absolute best way to identify any part on your Europa, is to go to the
appropriate section in the Europa build manual and there you will find the description
and part numbers listed for e.g. the fasteners. You will need to register
(once) to view all the manuals and modification listings. See:-
https://www.europa-aircraft.co.uk/support.html#register
And for buying bits from Europa, the email and contact number listed below, should
be used now:
enquiries@europa-aircraft.co.uk or call +44 (0)1603 542545
Hope it helps . . .
Clive S
G-YETI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505502#505502
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 |
Great posting theme idea Jim.
I'm changing all my rubber components at the moment and just completed taking out
and refitting the engine to change the engine frame rubbers, and the fuel hoses
etc (Gates Barricade SAEJ30R14 - which is a bit hard to find and expensive,
here in the UK).
Took the opportunity whilst i'm working in the tunnel to overhaul my Mono UC as
well - disassembly, clean and inspect and checking e.g. linkage bushes before
lubing them up and reassembling then resetting the 79mm gap.
Fresh oil hoses and re-purging the oil system, then the coolant system refresh,
next.
Clive S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505503#505503
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Europa uses AN screws and bolts for the most part except in areas where the particular
engine fitting or mount is either Metric or SAE. It's important to get
knowledgeable on hardware and have spares.
Counter sunk screws differ. Most hardware store are 90 degree so they protrude
and fit poorly causing cracks eventually. AN hardware countersunk is 118 degrees
for a flatter finish and it fits the Tinnerman washer precisely.
Note: Buy a 118 degree Permagrit countersink for use on the aircraft. If you are
a second hand owner, and are clueless of how the builder built the aircraft
due to poor documentation, you only have the build manual to go by, so reading
and study is essential.
For your Europa supplied screws they are (#10 which is 3/16 inch and is known as
10-32). I use AN507 which is also known as MS24693 MACHINE SCREWS (AN507 in
stainless steel). I use 1/2 for around the sides (MS24693-C272), 5/8 for the
top cowl circumference, and down the side side of the lower cowl and 3/4 to 1
inch for the very bottom of the lower cowl depending on your particular nutplate
installation. Available at Aircraft Spruce and other aircraft supply houses.
Make a list. Everything that goes on or off will eventually need to be replaced
or wear out. My method is attached for logging my expendables. As for my screw/bolt/nut
list, I have trays full of every screw I have used during the build
of the aircraft. I make sure I have a few spares of all the cowl screws,
wheel pant, and access panels I use on my aircraft in a tool bag. My website
has my tool bag contents in the techniques section and many are on the Europa
Club Website.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505505#505505
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/europa_aircraft_maintenance_parts_annual_rotax_157.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Mike,
My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax powerplants.
The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch tapered blade
is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with trying to use
this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and the fixed
pitch versions.
The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb will be
less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax won't spin
a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is just not enough
torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good performance.
The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord) blade of 64
inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64 inches) and
was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The 100HP Rotax has the
higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props with authority.
Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high speed blades.
Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California lead time is
many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States so production
and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at this time. Airmaster
will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready to mount. It will cost
you but it is worth it.
Contact: Dirk Oyen
Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
Hemelrijk 61
Heusen-Zolder
Limburg 3550
Belgium
E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
M: +32 477 25 80 28
Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster Contacts section for resellers.)
I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster Hub.
And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
US Airmaster Dealer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505506#505506
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Mike,
My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax powerplants.
The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch tapered blade
is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with trying to use
this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and the fixed
pitch versions.
The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb will be
less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax won't spin
a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is just not enough
torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good performance.
The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord) blade of 64
inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64 inches) and
was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The 100HP Rotax has the
higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props with authority.
Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high speed blades.
Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California lead time is
many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States so production
and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at this time. Airmaster
will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready to mount. It will cost
you but it is worth it.
Contact: Dirk Oyen
Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
Hemelrijk 61
Heusen-Zolder
Limburg 3550
Belgium
E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
M: +32 477 25 80 28
Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster Contacts section for resellers.)
I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster Hub.
And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
US Airmaster Dealer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
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| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Hi Kingsley,
I am not an aerodynamicist, so this is my uninformed explanation why the
trim tab deflection is desirable:
1. Nose down trim is commanding the tailplane to provide lift, this
slightly reduces required wing lift along with wing induced drag, so
it=99s a good thing.
2. If you move the CG forward and tailplane lift required is
reduced, the wing induced drag (to maintain level flight) will
consequently increase - not desirable.
3. To produce the desired tailplane lift without tab deflection
would require an internal trim spring or reduced counterweight and now
you=99re the test pilot!
Interestingly some Jodel models have all flying tails that are only
partially mass balanced, so reducing that lump of steel might work, but
I won=99t be trying it.
Cheers,
Roger
> On 28 Dec 2021, at 01:52, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au>
wrote:
>
> Hello Pete,
>
> I=99m at a loss to understand how the tailplane incidence can be
set with a fully flying tailplane. Is there an explanation please?
>
> Best regards
> Your antipodean cousin
> Kingsley
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 27 Dec 2021, at 9:10 pm, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers02@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB
>> Just remember that during build you are allowed a tolerance of round
about 1 degree in the tail plane incidence. This is enough to change
your trim settings for any particular situation. It will also explain
differences between various aeroplanes.
>> Pete J
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Dec 2021, 13:53 Bud Yerly, <budyerly@msn.com
<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>>
>> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com <mailto:budyerly@msn.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021, 7:35 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trim setting question
>>
>> As Tim said.
>>
>> Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim.
=46rom takeoff to cruise it is all down trim.
>>
>>
>> Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some
cases as the incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim
is needed as speed increases
>>
>>
>> Happy Holidays,
>>
>> Bud Yerly
>>
>>
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>> On Behalf Of Pete
>> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim setting question
>>
>>
>> Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone :)
>>
>>
>> That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse
moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is
not lined up with the fuse moulding in flight. I find that odd.
>>
>>
>> Cheers and Merry Christmas!
>>
>> PeteZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz
<mailto:ward.t@xtra.co.nz>> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BBHi Pete,
>>
>> I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a
real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> Tim Ward
>>
>> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>>
>> Fendalton,
>>
>> Christchurch, 8052
>>
>> New Zealand.
>>
>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz <mailto:ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
>>
>> 021 0640221
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com
<mailto:peterz@zutrasoft.com>> wrote:
>>
>> =EF=BB
>>
>> Curious: My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is
generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up
trim).
>>
>>
>> Is this what other folks are seeing?
>>
>>
>> Cheers and thx,
>>
>> PeteZ
>>
>> C-GNPZ classic 912S
>>
>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 |
Busy putting some weekly flight time on my Classic these days (an hour at a
time lol). Have been troubleshooting my new CYA100 AOA which has a habit
of going intermittent, and it's hopefully a connector issue not requiring a
full rewire and removal of panel etc. (I had reused the builder's original
now removed and replaced inop AOA's fuse/wing-wiring). I love flying in
the winter - smooth and great performance. That said, I've spoiled myself
with a heated hangar - which I need to justify (propane is crazy expensive
these days!) so the more flight hours the better. So far about 70hrs since
getting it back into the air in September after a main frame repair for a
bent pivot tube which I have now re-enforced with a truss... along with a
laundry list of "make it mine" mods/improvements/fixes.
Just added an unedited (read boring) vid to my Youtube channel with the
latest AOA recal. Normally my airport does a great job with clearing
the pavement, but this flight was on glare ice surfaces.... makes
tailwheeling really smooth and easy peasy ;-) but runups not so much lol
Generally I find that if I fly the AOA to the runway I can reliably nail
the short full stall landings - luv it. Gives me more confidence than the
ASI how much I've got left - leaving me generally too fast. Now if I could
ensure it is reliable :-)
https://youtu.be/19zLV5ddrag
Cheers,
PeteZ
C-GNPZ classic 912S
On Mon, Dec 27, 2021 at 11:35 AM h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
> Most days at our house begin with a cup of coffee and then to the
> computer. I check email, weather, Matronics and Facebook for new posts.
I
> also check new posts on VansAirForce.net. On the weekends the VAF
> moderator starts a thread entitled =9CWhat did you do with your RV
this
> weekend?=9D I find this thread interesting. Often there are flying
stories,
> but also building stories, photos or motivational posts.
>
> I=99d like to do the same here on Matronics and I hope Europa owner
s around
> the world will join in. Our flying season in Michigan is about to end wi
th
> snow on the grass runway, but those of you in the southern US, southern
> Europe and southern hemisphere should be going great guns. Show us what
> you are doing!
>
> I=99ll start a new thread each week.
>
> Jim Butcher
> N241BW XS Mono 914
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505392#505392
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Trim setting question |
Hi Kingsley,
You are correct, I guess it can=99t :-). I was just referring to the
fuse moulding (which fairs into the tailplane) appears to me to be at a sli
ghtly incorrect angle (for cruise)?
Cheers,
PeteZ
> On Dec 27, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au> wro
te:
>
> =EF=BBHello Pete,
>
> I=99m at a loss to understand how the tailplane incidence can be set
with a fully flying tailplane. Is there an explanation please?
>
> Best regards
> Your antipodean cousin
> Kingsley
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On 27 Dec 2021, at 9:10 pm, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers02@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>> =EF=BB
>> Just remember that during build you are allowed a tolerance of round abou
t 1 degree in the tail plane incidence. This is enough to change your trim s
ettings for any particular situation. It will also explain differences betwe
en various aeroplanes.
>> Pete J
>>
>>> On Sun, 26 Dec 2021, 13:53 Bud Yerly, <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for Android
>>>
>>> From: Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021, 7:35 PM
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trim setting question
>>>
>>> As Tim said.
>>>
>>> Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim. =46rom
takeoff to cruise it is all down trim.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some cases a
s the incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim is needed a
s speed increases
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy Holidays,
>>>
>>> Bud Yerly
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@m
atronics.com> On Behalf Of Pete
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim setting question
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse mould
ing, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is not line
d up with the fuse moulding in flight. I find that odd.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers and Merry Christmas!
>>>
>>> PeteZ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BBHi Pete,
>>>
>>> I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a rea
l gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners!
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> Tim Ward
>>>
>>> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>>>
>>> Fendalton,
>>>
>>> Christchurch, 8052
>>>
>>> New Zealand.
>>>
>>> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>>>
>>> 021 0640221
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BB
>>>
>>> Curious: My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is genera
lly set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is this what other folks are seeing?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers and thx,
>>>
>>> PeteZ
>>>
>>> C-GNPZ classic 912S
>>>
>>>
Message 13
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| Subject: | What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/20 - 12/26 |
GentsI received a GoPro10 for Christmas and am looking for accessories.
Im wondering what kind of attachments are trustworthy for positioning the camera
out in the slipstreamwhat about the sticky pads or suction cups?
Has anybody lost their camera in flight?
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