Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:21 AM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (Mike)
2. 02:45 AM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (timward)
3. 04:03 AM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (Mike)
4. 08:42 AM - What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/27 - 1/3? (h&jeuropa)
5. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (timward)
6. 10:40 AM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (timward)
7. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
8. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (Bud Yerly)
9. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (Paul Mansfield)
10. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (Bud Yerly)
11. 06:58 PM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
12. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: Propeller Sizing (davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a 64" to
a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of calculations
to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but they
were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating with a
64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating with
one.
Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
Thanks
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
budyerly@msn.com
Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
Mike,
My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax powerplants.
The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch tapered
blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with trying
to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and the
fixed pitch versions.
The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb will
be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax won't
spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is just
not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
performance.
The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord) blade of
64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The 100HP
Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props with
authority.
Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high speed
blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California lead
time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States so
production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at this
time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready to
mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
Contact: Dirk Oyen
Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
Hemelrijk 61
Heusen-Zolder
Limburg 3550
Belgium
E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
M: +32 477 25 80 28
Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the
experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster Contacts
section for resellers.)
I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster Hub.
And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
US Airmaster Dealer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Hi Mike,
I have 64=9D prop blades on my Mono Wheel Classic #292. Prop clearance
is not a problem.
With the Airmaster CSU, Rotax 912ULS 100hp, it provides excellent performanc
e.
Upgraded to 64=9D from 62=9D after a prop strike, on recommendat
ion from Airmaster.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
> On 29/12/2021, at 11:29 PM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
> I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
> blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a 64" t
o
> a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of calculation
s
> to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but they
> were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating with a
> 64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating with
> one.
> Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> budyerly@msn.com
> Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
>
> Mike,
> My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
>
> The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax powerplants
.
> The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch taper
ed
> blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with tryin
g
> to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and th
e
> fixed pitch versions.
>
> The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb wi
ll
> be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax won't
> spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is just
> not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
> performance.
>
> The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord) blade o
f
> 64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
> inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The 100HP
> Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props with
> authority.
>
> Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high speed
> blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California le
ad
> time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States so
> production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at this
> time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready to
> mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
>
> Contact: Dirk Oyen
> Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
> Hemelrijk 61
> Heusen-Zolder
> Limburg 3550
> Belgium
>
> E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
> M: +32 477 25 80 28
>
> Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the
> experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster Contacts
> section for resellers.)
>
> I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster Hub
.
> And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
> US Airmaster Dealer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Hello Tim
Thanks, this is what I was after the only problem is that sadly for me
you are in NZ and I suppose governed by different regs!
Here in the UK we are subject to something called CS-VLA 925 (easily
googled) which makes minimum prop clearance demands.
However glad to hear that you are getting good results, what brand of
blades are you using?
Thanks
Mike
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of timward
Sent: 29 December 2021 10:45
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
Hi Mike,
I have 64=9D prop blades on my Mono Wheel Classic #292. Prop
clearance is not a problem.
With the Airmaster CSU, Rotax 912ULS 100hp, it provides excellent
performance.
Upgraded to 64=9D from 62=9D after a prop strike, on
recommendation from Airmaster.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
On 29/12/2021, at 11:29 PM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a
64" to
a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of
calculations
to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but
they
were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating with
a
64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating
with
one.
Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
Thanks
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
budyerly@msn.com
Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
Mike,
My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax
powerplants.
The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch
tapered
blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with
trying
to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and
the
fixed pitch versions.
The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb
will
be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax
won't
spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is
just
not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
performance.
The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord)
blade of
64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The 100HP
Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props with
authority.
Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high
speed
blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California
lead
time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States
so
production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at this
time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready to
mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
Contact: Dirk Oyen
Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
Hemelrijk 61
Heusen-Zolder
Limburg 3550
Belgium
E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
M: +32 477 25 80 28
Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the
experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster
Contacts
section for resellers.)
I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster
Hub.
And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
US Airmaster Dealer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
<========================
=====================
<sp; -Matt
D========================
======================
Message 4
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| Subject: | What did you do with your Europa this week, 12/27 - 1/3? |
Starting thread for this week.
Thanks to everyone who posted last week.
I'm hoping the wet snow goes away so i can get in another flight.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505521#505521
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Hi Mike,
Propeller is:
Warp Drive 63R WDN63R
Clockwise Tractor Diameter 64=9D
Pitch High 89* Low 8*
Airmaster AP332
Narrow Chord.
Would like to have the wide chord, however next time.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
> On 30/12/2021, at 1:12 AM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Hello Tim
> Thanks, this is what I was after the only problem is that sadly for me you
are in NZ and I suppose governed by different regs!
> Here in the UK we are subject to something called CS-VLA 925 (easily googl
ed) which makes minimum prop clearance demands.
> However glad to hear that you are getting good results, what brand of blad
es are you using?
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of timward
> Sent: 29 December 2021 10:45
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> Hi Mike,
> I have 64=9D prop blades on my Mono Wheel Classic #292. Prop clearan
ce is not a problem.
> With the Airmaster CSU, Rotax 912ULS 100hp, it provides excellent performa
nce.
> Upgraded to 64=9D from 62=9D after a prop strike, on recommend
ation from Airmaster.
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
> 021 0640221
>
>
> On 29/12/2021, at 11:29 PM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
> I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
> blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a 64" t
o
> a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of calculation
s
> to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but they
> were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating with a
> 64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating with
> one.
> Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> budyerly@msn.com
> Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
>
> Mike,
> My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
>
> The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax powerplants
.
> The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch taper
ed
> blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with tryin
g
> to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and th
e
> fixed pitch versions.
>
> The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb wi
ll
> be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax won't
> spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is just
> not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
> performance.
>
> The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord) blade o
f
> 64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
> inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The 100HP
> Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props with
> authority.
>
> Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high speed
> blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California le
ad
> time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States so
> production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at this
> time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready to
> mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
>
> Contact: Dirk Oyen
> Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
> Hemelrijk 61
> Heusen-Zolder
> Limburg 3550
> Belgium
>
> E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
> M: +32 477 25 80 28
>
> Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the
> experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster Contacts
> section for resellers.)
>
> I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster Hub
.
> And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
> US Airmaster Dealer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <====================
>
> <sp; -Matt D=============
==========================
=======
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
See:
https://warpdriveinc.com/product/3-blade-prop-std-hub/
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
> On 30/12/2021, at 1:12 AM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB
> Hello Tim
> Thanks, this is what I was after the only problem is that sadly for me you
are in NZ and I suppose governed by different regs!
> Here in the UK we are subject to something called CS-VLA 925 (easily googl
ed) which makes minimum prop clearance demands.
> However glad to hear that you are getting good results, what brand of blad
es are you using?
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of timward
> Sent: 29 December 2021 10:45
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> Hi Mike,
> I have 64=9D prop blades on my Mono Wheel Classic #292. Prop clearan
ce is not a problem.
> With the Airmaster CSU, Rotax 912ULS 100hp, it provides excellent performa
nce.
> Upgraded to 64=9D from 62=9D after a prop strike, on recommend
ation from Airmaster.
> Cheers,
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch, 8052
> New Zealand.
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
> 021 0640221
>
>
> On 29/12/2021, at 11:29 PM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
> I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
> blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a 64" t
o
> a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of calculation
s
> to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but they
> were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating with a
> 64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating with
> one.
> Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> budyerly@msn.com
> Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
>
> Mike,
> My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
>
> The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax powerplants
.
> The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch taper
ed
> blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with tryin
g
> to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and th
e
> fixed pitch versions.
>
> The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb wi
ll
> be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax won't
> spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is just
> not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
> performance.
>
> The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord) blade o
f
> 64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
> inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The 100HP
> Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props with
> authority.
>
> Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high speed
> blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California le
ad
> time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States so
> production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at this
> time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready to
> mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
>
> Contact: Dirk Oyen
> Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
> Hemelrijk 61
> Heusen-Zolder
> Limburg 3550
> Belgium
>
> E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
> M: +32 477 25 80 28
>
> Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the
> experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster Contacts
> section for resellers.)
>
> I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster Hub
.
> And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
> US Airmaster Dealer
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <====================
>
> <sp; -Matt D=============
==========================
=======
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Mike, for what it is worth I have a Woodcomp 1625mm (=62" as near as
dammit) prop on my 914XS mono. I am not aware of prop limitations
differing between Classic and XS. I have always understood that this was
the max size that the LAA would approve. The clearance is fine on hard
runways, but on roughish grass strips you wouldn't want any longer
blades than that, as you might find the tips getting stained green.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2021-12-29 12:03, Mike wrote:
> Hello Tim
>
> Thanks, this is what I was after the only problem is that sadly for me
> you are in NZ and I suppose governed by different regs!
>
> Here in the UK we are subject to something called CS-VLA 925 (easily
> googled) which makes minimum prop clearance demands.
>
> However glad to hear that you are getting good results, what brand of
> blades are you using?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of timward
> Sent: 29 December 2021 10:45
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I have 64" prop blades on my Mono Wheel Classic #292. Prop clearance is
> not a problem.
>
> With the Airmaster CSU, Rotax 912ULS 100hp, it provides excellent
> performance.
>
> Upgraded to 64" from 62" after a prop strike, on recommendation from
> Airmaster.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> Tim Ward
>
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>
> Fendalton,
>
> Christchurch, 8052
>
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>
> 021 0640221
>
> On 29/12/2021, at 11:29 PM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
>> I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a
>> replacement
>> blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a
>> 64" to
>> a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of
>> calculations
>> to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but
>> they
>> were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating
>> with a
>> 64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating
>> with
>> one.
>> Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> budyerly@msn.com
>> Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>>
>> <budyerly@msn.com>
>>
>> Mike,
>> My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
>>
>> The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax
>> powerplants.
>> The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch
>> tapered
>> blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with
>> trying
>> to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster
>> and the
>> fixed pitch versions.
>>
>> The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened,
>> climb will
>> be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax
>> won't
>> spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is
>> just
>> not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
>> performance.
>>
>> The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord)
>> blade of
>> 64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
>> inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The
>> 100HP
>> Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props
>> with
>> authority.
>>
>> Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high
>> speed
>> blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in
>> California lead
>> time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States
>> so
>> production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at
>> this
>> time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready
>> to
>> mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
>>
>> Contact: Dirk Oyen
>> Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
>> Hemelrijk 61
>> Heusen-Zolder
>> Limburg 3550
>> Belgium
>>
>> E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
>> M: +32 477 25 80 28
>>
>> Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the
>> experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster
>> Contacts
>> section for resellers.)
>>
>> I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster
>> Hub.
>> And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Bud Yerly
>> US Airmaster Dealer
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
>>
>> <====================
>>
>> <sp; -Matt
>> D==============================================
Message 8
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|
| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Mike,
The 64 inch prop is the blade length ideal for all versions of the 912ULS a
nd 914 equipped on the Europa Classic/XS/Mono/Trigear. It has the recommen
ded ground clearance for normal operations for the mono and trigear. Prope
ller manufacturers know the max length for each of their blades to meet the
Rotax moment of inertia, bolt pattern and other factors. I=92ve placed a
64 inch wide chord Warp on a 80HP Rotax and it just wouldn=92t turn it up t
o speed and top end cruise suffered. So max length is based on engine torq
ue.
Notes:
Warp Drive is comfortable with the Wide Chord (Standard) blade on high spee
d aircraft from 64 to 67 inches. I=92ve seen guys with 70 inch two blade W
arp Drive props on a Kitfox with a 912UL 80HP engine and the blade pitch at
the tip is flat.
Each propeller manufacturer will have recommended lengths for each of the a
ircraft / engine combinations. Airmaster is one of the few to actually pri
nt the lengths on their website by aircraft type and powerplant.
The 64 inch Warp/Sensenich/Whirlwind is what all of us put on the Europa an
d is the only length we recommend for the Europa 912ULS/914. The speed dec
rease at cruise is only a knot slower for the 64 inch and the ground cleara
nce is in the ideal range.
In the paper I wrote on What propeller blade length and hub was ideal for t
he Rotax engines, I commented that with most propellers of a 16 to22 degree
s of root to tip twist the length and pitch of the prop was calculated for
lengths from 64 inches out to 75. For fast airplanes (like the Europa) not
hing good happens after 67 to 68 inches. Inertia goes up (Warp Drive blade
s have high inertia) and lighter wood and composite props can be longer, bu
t at a speed penalty so I set the and had many prop builders hate me for re
commending =93Nothing good happens after 68 inches on a constant speed prop
on a Rotax engine in my opinion.=94 Sure, one can thin the tip way down o
r sweep it and get another inch per blade, but generally speaking 67 with a
warp, 68-70 with a Whirlwind and some Sensenich with the highly swept tips
(scimitar shape) rather than the round or square tips.
The definition of ideal prop length I have in my files for many other aircr
aft are:
1. Ground clearance. There must be a clearance of at least seven inches
(for each airplane with nose wheel landing gear) or nine inches (for each a
irplane with tail wheel landing gear) between each propeller and the ground
with the landing gear statically deflected and in the level, normal takeof
f, or taxing attitude, whichever is most critical. In addition, for each ai
rplane with conventional landing gear struts using fluid or mechanical mean
s for absorbing landing shocks, there must be positive clearance between th
e propeller and the ground in the level takeoff attitude with the critical
tire completely deflated and the corresponding landing gear strut bottomed.
Positive clearance for airplanes using leaf spring struts is shown with a
deflection corresponding to 1.5 g.
In the mono, the rubber block has a slant in it which when compressed stops
the gear deflection and will allow the mono in level flight attitude to me
et this 7 inch propeller clearance.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matr
onics.com> On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 5:21 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
umba.co.uk>>
Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a 64" t
o
a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of calculations
to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but they
were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating with a
64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating with
one.
Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
Thanks
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-europa-list-serve
r@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>
Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
m>" <budyerly@msn.com<mailto:budyerly@msn.com>>
Mike,
My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax powerplants.
The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch tapere
d
blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with trying
to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and the
fixed pitch versions.
The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb wil
l
be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax won't
spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is just
not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
performance.
The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord) blade o
f
64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The 100HP
Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props with
authority.
Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high speed
blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California lea
d
time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States so
production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at this
time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready to
mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
Contact: Dirk Oyen
Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
Hemelrijk 61
Heusen-Zolder
Limburg 3550
Belgium
E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be<mailto:dirk.oyen1@telenet.be>
M: +32 477 25 80 28
Website: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2F
www.propellor.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C83afb0f859684abcf48c08d9cab586
f8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637763703272349596%7CUnknow
n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI
6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=iVTZnINjOqTFY6wf%2FrliZa6wbO3tsIgmwOj%2BNXncOEg%
3D&reserved=0 your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the
experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster Contacts
section for resellers.)
I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster Hub.
And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
US Airmaster Dealer
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.ma
tronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D505507%23505507&data=04%7C01%7C%7C8
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
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PT09DQoNCg0K
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Thanks Paul, it was indeed a typo. I meant as near as dammit 64". David
On 2021-12-29 22:21, Paul Mansfield wrote:
> I'm sure that was a typo, but 1625mm = 63.98".
>
> I have the same (LAA approved) blades on my 912S XS mono and the only
> factors I could think that would differ on a Classic would be engine
> (and therefore spinner) height and tailwheel length/positon.
>
> I'll measure my spinner tip height above ground tomorrow
>
> HTH,
> Paul M
> G-PLPM
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> Date: 29/12/2021 20:51 (GMT+00:00)
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> Mike, for what it is worth I have a Woodcomp 1625mm (=62" as near as
> dammit) prop on my 914XS mono. I am not aware of prop limitations
> differing between Classic and XS. I have always understood that this
> was the max size that the LAA would approve. The clearance is fine on
> hard runways, but on roughish grass strips you wouldn't want any longer
> blades than that, as you might find the tips getting stained green.
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2021-12-29 12:03, Mike wrote:
>
> Hello Tim
>
> Thanks, this is what I was after the only problem is that sadly for me
> you are in NZ and I suppose governed by different regs!
>
> Here in the UK we are subject to something called CS-VLA 925 (easily
> googled) which makes minimum prop clearance demands.
>
> However glad to hear that you are getting good results, what brand of
> blades are you using?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of timward
> Sent: 29 December 2021 10:45
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I have 64" prop blades on my Mono Wheel Classic #292. Prop clearance is
> not a problem.
>
> With the Airmaster CSU, Rotax 912ULS 100hp, it provides excellent
> performance.
>
> Upgraded to 64" from 62" after a prop strike, on recommendation from
> Airmaster.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> Tim Ward
>
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>
> Fendalton,
>
> Christchurch, 8052
>
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>
> 021 0640221
>
> On 29/12/2021, at 11:29 PM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
> I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
> blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a
> 64" to
> a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of
> calculations
> to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but
> they
> were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating
> with a
> 64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating
> with
> one.
> Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> budyerly@msn.com
> Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> <budyerly@msn.com>
>
> Mike,
> My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
>
> The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax
> powerplants.
> The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch
> tapered
> blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with
> trying
> to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and
> the
> fixed pitch versions.
>
> The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb
> will
> be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax
> won't
> spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is
> just
> not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
> performance.
>
> The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord)
> blade of
> 64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
> inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The
> 100HP
> Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props
> with
> authority.
>
> Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high
> speed
> blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California
> lead
> time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States
> so
> production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at
> this
> time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready
> to
> mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
>
> Contact: Dirk Oyen
> Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
> Hemelrijk 61
> Heusen-Zolder
> Limburg 3550
> Belgium
>
> E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
> M: +32 477 25 80 28
>
> Website: www.propellor.com your European Airmaster Dealer. He has the
> experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster
> Contacts
> section for resellers.)
>
> I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster
> Hub.
> And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
> US Airmaster Dealer
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
>
> <====================
>
> <sp; -Matt D=====================
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Propeller Sizing |
Bud, Possibly the earlier versions of the SR3000 were 1600mm but my more
recent SR3000 N W comes with its certificate stating 1625mm, or 64 ins
as corrected by Paul. Regards, David
On 2021-12-29 22:42, Bud Yerly wrote:
> David,
>
> The Woodcomp has a larger twist hence it varies in exact length at the
> props are made from 1600 (63") to 1738mm (68"). Woodcomp uses a
> 1600mm blade for the Europa on their SR3000. On the Airmaster, the
> actual blade length will vary from the 64 inch maximum based on the
> production mold used down slightly after production. For instance, at
> Woodcomp they don't cut a 1700 mm prop down to 1600. That is a
> different mold so measuring the prop provided will not always be exact.
> 64 inches maximum meets the criteria for the UK and US with the black
> rubber block (as the regs are basically the same). Europa 2004,
> Airmaster and I have supplied many props (even fixed pitch) at 64
> inches per the LAA. (Let's face it, it is only an inch longer at the
> tip than yours.) The Europa Club website indicates that the Airmaster
> was considered to be the "standard" for the Europa. They are all
> nominally 62-64" maximum length. Unfortunately, the Europa Factory POH
> from 1998 still says 62 inches in the performance numbers because the
> original engine was the 912. Those figures are based on the narrow
> chord blade. Note, from my reading of the original test flights the
> fixed prop was set to a takeoff static RPM of 4000 for cruise and 5500
> for takeoff for testing like most Rotax powered kit planes trick us
> with. Note the tip is really set high at 21degrees for the 912S. The
> 912S with the wide chord give better performance from takeoff to
> cruise.
>
> I'm forced to say that all our 64 inch props are not exactly 64 inch
> blade lengths after mounting in the rotating barrel of a constant speed
> prop. It seems there are no absolutes in aviation. By the time the
> blades are ground to length, shaped and balanced, each prop is slightly
> different in length.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bud Yerly
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of
> davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 3:47 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> Mike, for what it is worth I have a Woodcomp 1625mm (=62" as near as
> dammit) prop on my 914XS mono. I am not aware of prop limitations
> differing between Classic and XS. I have always understood that this
> was the max size that the LAA would approve. The clearance is fine on
> hard runways, but on roughish grass strips you wouldn't want any longer
> blades than that, as you might find the tips getting stained green.
> Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
>
> On 2021-12-29 12:03, Mike wrote:
>
> Hello Tim
>
> Thanks, this is what I was after the only problem is that sadly for me
> you are in NZ and I suppose governed by different regs!
>
> Here in the UK we are subject to something called CS-VLA 925 (easily
> googled) which makes minimum prop clearance demands.
>
> However glad to hear that you are getting good results, what brand of
> blades are you using?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of timward
> Sent: 29 December 2021 10:45
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I have 64" prop blades on my Mono Wheel Classic #292. Prop clearance is
> not a problem.
>
> With the Airmaster CSU, Rotax 912ULS 100hp, it provides excellent
> performance.
>
> Upgraded to 64" from 62" after a prop strike, on recommendation from
> Airmaster.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> Tim Ward
>
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
>
> Fendalton,
>
> Christchurch, 8052
>
> New Zealand.
>
> ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>
> 021 0640221
>
> On 29/12/2021, at 11:29 PM, Mike <mike@nyumba.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Bud for your usual excellent reply.
> I have been in contact with Dirk who has indeed suggested a replacement
> blade of 64" and been most helpful but the issue remains, can I fit a
> 64" to
> a classic mono. The LAA have provided me with a spreadsheet of
> calculations
> to determine prop tip clearance at Max AUW which I will carry out but
> they
> were unable to find out easily if any other classics were operating
> with a
> 64" prop so this is why I asked the community if anyone was operating
> with
> one.
> Thanks for the pointer to your website I will certainly have a look.
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> budyerly@msn.com
> Sent: 28 December 2021 16:44
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Propeller Sizing
>
> <budyerly@msn.com>
>
> Mike,
> My website has how to select a prop for your Rotax.
>
> The 62 inch Warp Drive Taper blade is fine for most 80HP Rotax
> powerplants.
> The Rotax 912ULS 100HP has significantly more torque and the 62 inch
> tapered
> blade is not very efficient. My US folks were very disapointed with
> trying
> to use this short tapered blade on the 912ULS in both the Airmaster and
> the
> fixed pitch versions.
>
> The blade angle will be quite high and takeoff will be shortened, climb
> will
> be less and the cruise will be about 5 knots slower. The 80HP Rotax
> won't
> spin a wide chord 64 inch without lugging the engine down. There is
> just
> not enough torque. The tip at takeoff is not able to bite for good
> performance.
>
> The LAA recommendations is for the Warp Drive Standard (wide chord)
> blade of
> 64 inch for the Europa (which limits the length for the airframe to 64
> inches) and was the standard Airmaster for a number of years. The
> 100HP
> Rotax has the higher torque and can spin the wider and longer props
> with
> authority.
>
> Also available for the cost of a blade change is the Sensenich high
> speed
> blades. Whirlwind has a blade but due to Covid lockdowns in California
> lead
> time is many months. Sensenich and Warp Drive are made in free States
> so
> production and labor issues are not a major problem for delivery at
> this
> time. Airmaster will build you up a set of blades and ferrules ready
> to
> mount. It will cost you but it is worth it.
>
> Contact: Dirk Oyen
> Oyen CTR (Europe Sales and Service)
> Hemelrijk 61
> Heusen-Zolder
> Limburg 3550
> Belgium
>
> E: dirk.oyen1@telenet.be
> M: +32 477 25 80 28
>
> Website: www.propellor.com [1] your European Airmaster Dealer. He has
> the
> experience you will need to draw on in the UK (See the Airmaster
> Contacts
> section for resellers.)
>
> I have been happy with all the US manufactured blades in the Airmaster
> Hub.
> And NO, you personally can't change the blades yourself.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
> US Airmaster Dealer
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505507#505507
>
> <====================
>
> <sp; -Matt D=====================
Links:
------
[1] http://www.propellor.com
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