---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/16/22: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:18 AM - Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (John Wighton) 2. 04:01 AM - New Europa Club WhatsApp group (Roland) 3. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (D McFadyean) 4. 09:12 AM - Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (John Wighton) 5. 11:25 AM - Re: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (fklein@orcasonline.com) 6. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (Paul Mansfield) 7. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (Tim Ward) 8. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (Tim Ward) 9. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (Westnet Mail) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop From: "John Wighton" The AAIB report is up to their usual high standard. However, the trend l can see being analysed is insufficient (or ineffective) aircraft type training and nothing to do with the nominal design of the Europa. Does it mention non-compliance to the design specification? I don't see an analysis of the recovered door(s) and measurement of the shoot bolt length against the design requirement. 10 to 12mm of protruding pin is needed. Is this an inspection item on a Europa permit inspection or renewal? If not, why not? I have looked at about a dozen Europa since the UglyMod appeared on the scene. All have different shoot bolt lengths and tapers. Some are filed to a distinct point whereas others have a minimal taper and have a generous radius at the end. As the operation of the door is linked to the dimensions and shape of the shoot bolts l would have thought this an obvious place to ensure consistency. Minimum design spec - shoot bolt extended length and shape being the inspection criterion. The LAA Mod may avoid some clumsy mishandling of the doors, but it does not necessarily fix the root cause. Go and measure your shoot bolts. Now measure the size and shape of the holes in the door surround. These are nominally a clearance fit to the shoot bolt diameter. Is the hole clean, would it benefit from a bush (tube) to ensure a good fit with the (proper length) shoot bolt? Some food for though. Until the next door off event. -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505687#505687 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: New Europa Club WhatsApp group From: "Roland" Hello Europa folks, this is to inform you all about the Europa Club providing a new WhatsApp chatgroup for all about Europa as an additional communication tool. If you are interested, you'll find all information about it on the Club Website: https://www.theeuropaclub.org/news/europa-club-whatsapp-group The WhatsApp group is rather for all "short notice stuff" and of course not meant to replace this great Forum here, which e. g. provides an excellent and valuable search funktion! That said, I hope to meet you also "over there" :-) Regards Roland (Europa Club Representative for Austria, Seitzerland and Germany) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505688#505688 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:18 AM PST US From: D McFadyean Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop I feel another LAA mod coming on! do not archive. > On 16 January 2022 at 11:18 John Wighton wrote: > > > > The AAIB report is up to their usual high standard. However, the trend l can see being analysed is insufficient (or ineffective) aircraft type training and nothing to do with the nominal design of the Europa. Does it mention non-compliance to the design specification? > > I don't see an analysis of the recovered door(s) and measurement of the shoot bolt length against the design requirement. > > 10 to 12mm of protruding pin is needed. Is this an inspection item on a Europa permit inspection or renewal? If not, why not? > > I have looked at about a dozen Europa since the UglyMod appeared on the scene. All have different shoot bolt lengths and tapers. Some are filed to a distinct point whereas others have a minimal taper and have a generous radius at the end. > > As the operation of the door is linked to the dimensions and shape of the shoot bolts l would have thought this an obvious place to ensure consistency. Minimum design spec - shoot bolt extended length and shape being the inspection criterion. > > The LAA Mod may avoid some clumsy mishandling of the doors, but it does not necessarily fix the root cause. > > Go and measure your shoot bolts. > > Now measure the size and shape of the holes in the door surround. These are nominally a clearance fit to the shoot bolt diameter. Is the hole clean, would it benefit from a bush (tube) to ensure a good fit with the (proper length) shoot bolt? > > Some food for though. Until the next door off event. > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505687#505687 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:24 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop From: "John Wighton" Following on from my last post I reacquainted myself with the build manual sections 34 and 35. The part DL07 is the guide mounted in the door, this gives the shoot bolt an axis to follow - hence it needs to be aligned accurately such that DL06 (shoot bolt) and the operating rod DL11(F and R) do not bind. Doing the above should ensure the shoot bolts protrude equally and follow a longitudinal axis. Drilling and opening up the door-side holes is covered in manual 35. It states: "In this step you will be cutting the holes in the door rebates to accept the shoot bolts, but first reinforce the area where the holes will be by applying 4 plies of bid 30 mm x 30 mm at the back of the door rebates (unmoulded side). Once this layup has fully cured apply a small dab of wet ink, or paint to the very end of the shoot-bolts. With the door fully pushed home, move the door handle towards the closed position until the end of the bolt strikes and, hopefully, leaves a witness mark on the door reveal. This is your starting point; drill a 1/4" hole and then with a round file carefully open up the hole just enough to allow a shoot bolt guide to fit in the door recess, so that when the shoot-bolts are fully extended, the doors are fully secured and flush with the outside of the fuselage. Use dabs of paint on the shoot-bolt each time you want to enlarge the hole so that you can see which areas need filing. Shorten the shoot bolt guides so that they protrude only 10 - 12 mm (3/8" - ") through the door frame and, ensuring that there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the frame, bond them in with Araldite 420 and flox." I would suggest that there should be another bush (like DL07) that goes into the doorframe moulding. This could be CNC machined (or 3D printed in a durable material). The initial opening would 'collect' the DL06 shoot-bolt taper and guide it into the new bushing. An enlarged flange on this new bushing could be made to act in a similar way to the UglyMod moulding - i.e. preventing the shoot-bolt from moving rearwards if misaligned. In summary 1. There seems to be a wide tolerance on shoot-bolt length. 2. Physical examination of Europa shoot-bolts suggests that the end taper and radius of the bolt is highly variable. 3. The locking mech in the door has a nice bushing/guide. 4. The shoot-bolt on the doorframe locates into a plain hole that has no dimensional tolerances (ref build manual 35). The dimension given has no datum and may be open to misinterpretation. 5. A doorframe mounted bushing - correctly designed, should enable more accurate engagement of the shoot-bolt. 6. Are the shoot-bolts installed in aircraft sufficiently long? Discuss....... -------- John Wighton Europa XS trigear G-IPOD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505690#505690 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:06 AM PST US From: "fklein@orcasonline.com" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop Johnthank you for your thoughtful analysis, summary, and invitation for discussion. > On Jan 16, 2022, at 9:12 AM, John Wighton wrote: > > In summary > 1. There seems to be a wide tolerance on shoot-bolt length. > 2. Physical examination of Europa shoot-bolts suggests that the end taper and radius of the bolt is highly variable. > 3. The locking mech in the door has a nice bushing/guide. > 4. The shoot-bolt on the doorframe locates into a plain hole that has no dimensional tolerances (ref build manual 35). The dimension given has no datum and may be open to misinterpretation. > 5. A doorframe mounted bushing - correctly designed, should enable more accurate engagement of the shoot-bolt. > 6. Are the shoot-bolts installed in aircraft sufficiently long? > > Discuss. I had no idea "that the end taper and radius of the bolt is highly variable=9Dmy having assumed that those shoot bolt ends, being a factory-supplied component, were identical and consistent. I found the aluminum sleeves provided for the doorframes to be totally adequate; however, after reading reports of =9Cgalling=9D of the aluminum sleeves which are bonded to the airframe, I substituted teflon sleeves (identical in size and shape to the aluminum sleeves supplied with the kit) which I was able to source at McMaster-Carr. Perhaps I am mistaken, but (up until now) I believed that the loss of doors in flight was due to the rear shoot bolt NOT being inserted in the rear sleeve of the airframeratherthat the rear shoot bolt, as the latching mechanism moves to the closed position, extends OUTSIDE of the airframe, prevents proper sealing of the door, and results in aerodynamic forces which cause the door to depart. If that is the case, any additional length of the rear shoot bolt (beyond that called for in the build manual) would have no effect. In my particular aircraft, due to the resistance of the compressible door seal, I find that it is essential to be able to pull in the door at the same time that I am closing the latching mechanism. Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:13 PM PST US From: Paul Mansfield Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop Ikkgd291bGQgc3VnZ2VzdCB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIHNob3VsZCBiZSBhbm90aGVyIGJ1c2ggKGxpa2Ug REwwNykgdGhhdCBnb2VzIGludG8gdGhlIGRvb3JmcmFtZSBtb3VsZGluZy4iDQoNClRoZXJlIGlz IGFub3RoZXIgYnVzaCAoYWxzbyBjYWxsZWQgREwwNykgdGhhdCBnb2VzIGluIHRoZSBkb29yIGZy YW1lICh0aGV5IHdlcmUgc3VwcGxpZWQgaW4gdGhlIGtpdCAmIEkgY2VydGFpbmx5IGZpdHRlZCB0 aGVtKToNCg0KIlNob3J0ZW4gdGhlIHNob290IGJvbHQgZ3VpZGVzIDw+IHRocm91Z2ggdGhlIGRv b3IgZnJhbWUgYW5kLCAuLi5lbnN1cmluZyB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgZ2FwIG9mIG9ubHkgMSAt IDIgbW0gYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgZ3VpZGVzIGluIHRoZSBkb29yIGFuZCB0aGUgZnJhbWUsIGJvbmQg dGhlbSBpbiAuLi4iDQoNCi4uLiBteSBlbXBoYXNpcy4NCg0KSFRILA0KDQpQYXVsDQoNCkctUExQ TQ0KDQotLS0tLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBtZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBKb2huIFdpZ2h0 b24gPGpvaG5Ad2lnaHRvbi5uZXQ+DQpEYXRlOiAxNi8wMS8yMDIyIDE3OjE1IChHTVQrMDA6MDAp DQpUbzogZXVyb3BhLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVjdDogRXVyb3BhLUxpc3Q6IFJl OiBNYW5kYXRvcnkgVS5LLiBMQUEgcGVybWl0IGRpcmVjdGl2ZS4gU2hvb3QtQm9sdCBzdG9wDQoN Ci0tPiBFdXJvcGEtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogIkpvaG4gV2lnaHRvbiIgPGpvaG5A d2lnaHRvbi5uZXQ+DQoNCkZvbGxvd2luZyBvbiBmcm9tIG15IGxhc3QgcG9zdCBJIHJlYWNxdWFp bnRlZCBteXNlbGYgd2l0aCB0aGUgYnVpbGQgbWFudWFsIHNlY3Rpb25zIDM0IGFuZCAzNS4NCg0K VGhlIHBhcnQgREwwNyBpcyB0aGUgZ3VpZGUgbW91bnRlZCBpbiB0aGUgZG9vciwgdGhpcyBnaXZl cyB0aGUgc2hvb3QgYm9sdCBhbiBheGlzIHRvIGZvbGxvdyAtIGhlbmNlIGl0IG5lZWRzIHRvIGJl IGFsaWduZWQgYWNjdXJhdGVseSBzdWNoIHRoYXQgREwwNiAoc2hvb3QgYm9sdCkgYW5kIHRoZSBv cGVyYXRpbmcgcm9kIERMMTEoRiBhbmQgUikgZG8gbm90IGJpbmQuDQoNCkRvaW5nIHRoZSBhYm92 ZSBzaG91bGQgZW5zdXJlIHRoZSBzaG9vdCBib2x0cyBwcm90cnVkZSBlcXVhbGx5IGFuZCBmb2xs b3cgYSBsb25naXR1ZGluYWwgYXhpcy4NCg0KRHJpbGxpbmcgYW5kIG9wZW5pbmcgdXAgdGhlIGRv b3Itc2lkZSBob2xlcyBpcyBjb3ZlcmVkIGluIG1hbnVhbCAzNS4gIEl0IHN0YXRlczoNCg0KIklu IHRoaXMgc3RlcCB5b3Ugd2lsbCBiZSBjdXR0aW5nIHRoZSBob2xlcyBpbiB0aGUgZG9vciByZWJh dGVzIHRvIGFjY2VwdCB0aGUgc2hvb3QgYm9sdHMsIGJ1dCBmaXJzdCByZWluZm9yY2UgdGhlIGFy ZWEgd2hlcmUgdGhlIGhvbGVzIHdpbGwgYmUgYnkgYXBwbHlpbmcgNCBwbGllcyBvZiDDouKCrMuc Ymlkw6LigqzihKIgMzAgbW0geCAzMCBtbSBhdCB0aGUgYmFjayBvZiB0aGUgZG9vciByZWJhdGVz ICh1bm1vdWxkZWQgc2lkZSkuDQpPbmNlIHRoaXMgbGF5dXAgaGFzIGZ1bGx5IGN1cmVkIGFwcGx5 IGEgc21hbGwgZGFiIG9mIHdldCBpbmssIG9yIHBhaW50IHRvIHRoZSB2ZXJ5IGVuZCBvZiB0aGUg c2hvb3QtYm9sdHMuIFdpdGggdGhlIGRvb3IgZnVsbHkgcHVzaGVkIGhvbWUsIG1vdmUgdGhlIGRv b3IgaGFuZGxlIHRvd2FyZHMgdGhlIGNsb3NlZCBwb3NpdGlvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgZW5kIG9mIHRo ZSBib2x0IHN0cmlrZXMgYW5kLCBob3BlZnVsbHksIGxlYXZlcyBhIHdpdG5lc3MgbWFyayBvbiB0 aGUgZG9vciByZXZlYWwuDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgeW91ciBzdGFydGluZyBwb2ludDsgZHJpbGwgYSAx LzQiIGhvbGUgYW5kIHRoZW4gd2l0aCBhIHJvdW5kIGZpbGUgY2FyZWZ1bGx5IG9wZW4gdXAgdGhl IGhvbGUganVzdCBlbm91Z2ggdG8gYWxsb3cgYSBzaG9vdCBib2x0IGd1aWRlIHRvIGZpdCBpbiB0 aGUgZG9vciByZWNlc3MsIHNvIHRoYXQgd2hlbiB0aGUgc2hvb3QtYm9sdHMgYXJlIGZ1bGx5IGV4 dGVuZGVkLCB0aGUgZG9vcnMgYXJlIGZ1bGx5IHNlY3VyZWQgYW5kIGZsdXNoIHdpdGggdGhlIG91 dHNpZGUgb2YgdGhlIGZ1c2VsYWdlLiBVc2UgZGFicyBvZiBwYWludCBvbg0KdGhlIHNob290LWJv bHQgZWFjaCB0aW1lIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIGVubGFyZ2UgdGhlIGhvbGUgc28gdGhhdCB5b3UgY2Fu IHNlZSB3aGljaCBhcmVhcyBuZWVkIGZpbGluZy4gU2hvcnRlbiB0aGUgc2hvb3QgYm9sdCBndWlk ZXMgc28gdGhhdCB0aGV5IHByb3RydWRlIG9ubHkgMTAgLSAxMiBtbSAoMy84IiAtIMOCwr0iKSB0 aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBkb29yIGZyYW1lIGFuZCwgZW5zdXJpbmcgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIGdhcCBv ZiBvbmx5IDEgLSAyIG1tIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIGd1aWRlcyBpbiB0aGUgZG9vciBhbmQgdGhlIGZy YW1lLCBib25kIHRoZW0gaW4gd2l0aCBBcmFsZGl0ZSA0MjAgYW5kIGZsb3guIg0KDQpJIHdvdWxk IHN1Z2dlc3QgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBzaG91bGQgYmUgYW5vdGhlciBidXNoIChsaWtlIERMMDcpIHRo YXQgZ29lcyBpbnRvIHRoZSBkb29yZnJhbWUgbW91bGRpbmcuICBUaGlzIGNvdWxkIGJlIENOQyBt YWNoaW5lZCAob3IgM0QgcHJpbnRlZCBpbiBhIGR1cmFibGUgbWF0ZXJpYWwpLiAgVGhlIGluaXRp YWwgb3BlbmluZyB3b3VsZCAnY29sbGVjdCcgdGhlIERMMDYgc2hvb3QtYm9sdCB0YXBlciBhbmQg Z3VpZGUgaXQgaW50byB0aGUgbmV3IGJ1c2hpbmcuDQoNCkFuIGVubGFyZ2VkIGZsYW5nZSBvbiB0 aGlzIG5ldyBidXNoaW5nIGNvdWxkIGJlIG1hZGUgdG8gYWN0IGluIGEgc2ltaWxhciB3YXkgdG8g dGhlIFVnbHlNb2QgbW91bGRpbmcgLSBpLmUuIHByZXZlbnRpbmcgdGhlIHNob290LWJvbHQgZnJv bSBtb3ZpbmcgcmVhcndhcmRzIGlmIG1pc2FsaWduZWQuDQoNCkluIHN1bW1hcnkNCjEuIFRoZXJl IHNlZW1zIHRvIGJlIGEgd2lkZSB0b2xlcmFuY2Ugb24gc2hvb3QtYm9sdCBsZW5ndGguDQoyLiBQ aHlzaWNhbCBleGFtaW5hdGlvbiBvZiBFdXJvcGEgc2hvb3QtYm9sdHMgc3VnZ2VzdHMgdGhhdCB0 aGUgZW5kIHRhcGVyIGFuZCByYWRpdXMgb2YgdGhlIGJvbHQgaXMgaGlnaGx5IHZhcmlhYmxlLg0K My4gVGhlIGxvY2tpbmcgbWVjaCBpbiB0aGUgZG9vciBoYXMgYSBuaWNlIGJ1c2hpbmcvZ3VpZGUu DQo0LiBUaGUgc2hvb3QtYm9sdCBvbiB0aGUgZG9vcmZyYW1lIGxvY2F0ZXMgaW50byBhIHBsYWlu IGhvbGUgdGhhdCBoYXMgbm8gZGltZW5zaW9uYWwgdG9sZXJhbmNlcyAocmVmIGJ1aWxkIG1hbnVh bCAzNSkuICBUaGUgZGltZW5zaW9uIGdpdmVuIGhhcyBubyBkYXR1bSBhbmQgbWF5IGJlIG9wZW4g dG8gbWlzaW50ZXJwcmV0YXRpb24uDQo1LiBBIGRvb3JmcmFtZSBtb3VudGVkIGJ1c2hpbmcgLSBj b3JyZWN0bHkgZGVzaWduZWQsIHNob3VsZCBlbmFibGUgbW9yZSBhY2N1cmF0ZSBlbmdhZ2VtZW50 IG9mIHRoZSBzaG9vdC1ib2x0Lg0KNi4gQXJlIHRoZSBzaG9vdC1ib2x0cyBpbnN0YWxsZWQgaW4g YWlyY3JhZnQgc3VmZmljaWVudGx5IGxvbmc/DQoNCkRpc2N1c3MuLi4uLi4uDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0t DQpKb2huIFdpZ2h0b24NCkV1cm9wYSBYUyB0cmlnZWFyIEctSVBPRA0KDQoNCg0KDQpSZWFkIHRo aXMgdG9waWMgb25saW5lIGhlcmU6DQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vZW1lYTAxLnNhZmVsaW5rcy5wcm90ZWN0 aW9uLm91dGxvb2suY29tLz91cmw9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRmZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tJTJG dmlld3RvcGljLnBocCUzRnAlM0Q1MDU2OTAlMjM1MDU2OTAmYW1wO2RhdGE9MDQlN0MwMSU3QyU3 QzE0NDFkMmEzNGIzMDQzMWQ2MjNkMDhkOWQ5MTNjYjYzJTdDODRkZjllN2ZlOWY2NDBhZmI0MzVh YWFhYWFhYWFhYWElN0MxJTdDMCU3QzYzNzc3OTUwMTMwNDYwNTA2NSU3Q1Vua25vd24lN0NUV0Zw Ykdac2IzZDhleUpXSWpvaU1DNHdMakF3TURBaUxDSlFJam9pVjJsdU16SWlMQ0pCVGlJNklrMWhh V3dpTENKWFZDSTZNbjAlM0QlN0MzMDAwJmFtcDtzZGF0YT1QTFJ2MERwUUhKR3poJTJCNzVJU1p1 NUgzVzVDVWJQbTdVV3dCaklXVEpyb28lM0QmYW1wO3Jlc2VydmVkPTANCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCl8t PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgLSBUaGUgRXVyb3BhLUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KXy09IFVz ZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KXy09IHRo ZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sDQpfLT0g QXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsDQpfLT0g UGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOg0KXy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cHM6Ly9l bWVhMDEuc2FmZWxpbmtzLnByb3RlY3Rpb24ub3V0bG9vay5jb20vP3VybD1odHRwJTNBJTJGJTJG d3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20lMkZOYXZpZ2F0b3IlM0ZFdXJvcGEtTGlzdCZhbXA7ZGF0YT0wNCU3 QzAxJTdDJTdDMTQ0MWQyYTM0YjMwNDMxZDYyM2QwOGQ5ZDkxM2NiNjMlN0M4NGRmOWU3ZmU5ZjY0 MGFmYjQzNWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYSU3QzElN0MwJTdDNjM3Nzc5NTAxMzA0NjA1MDY1JTdDVW5rbm93 biU3Q1RXRnBiR1pzYjNkOGV5SldJam9pTUM0d0xqQXdNREFpTENKUUlqb2lWMmx1TXpJaUxDSkJU aUk2SWsxaGFXd2lMQ0pYVkNJNk1uMCUzRCU3QzMwMDAmYW1wO3NkYXRhPXlYc3VXamYzSjBmVm5W TklnMGZzcXkybUJwMjY1VTI4czFUNDMlMkJyME9YYyUzRCZhbXA7cmVzZXJ2ZWQ9MA0KXy09DQpf LT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtDQpfLT0gU2Ft ZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyENCl8tPQ0K Xy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHBzOi8vZW1lYTAxLnNhZmVsaW5rcy5wcm90ZWN0aW9uLm91dGxvb2suY29t Lz91cmw9aHR0cCUzQSUyRiUyRmZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tJTJGJmFtcDtkYXRhPTA0JTdD MDElN0MlN0MxNDQxZDJhMzRiMzA0MzFkNjIzZDA4ZDlkOTEzY2I2MyU3Qzg0ZGY5ZTdmZTlmNjQw YWZiNDM1YWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhJTdDMSU3QzAlN0M2Mzc3Nzk1MDEzMDQ2MDUwNjUlN0NVbmtub3du JTdDVFdGcGJHWnNiM2Q4ZXlKV0lqb2lNQzR3TGpBd01EQWlMQ0pRSWpvaVYybHVNeklpTENKQlRp STZJazFoYVd3aUxDSlhWQ0k2TW4wJTNEJTdDMzAwMCZhbXA7c2RhdGE9a1ZzNHZLQjBOZlpSS0FE R1BnMXJzdGk5cEJvSGhsblJwSUl4MnF4M2NnNCUzRCZhbXA7cmVzZXJ2ZWQ9MA0KXy09DQpfLT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtIE5FVyBNQVRST05JQ1MgTElTVCBXSUtJIC0NCl8tPSBBZGQg c29tZSBpbmZvIHRvIHRoZSBNYXRyb25pY3MgRW1haWwgTGlzdCBXaWtpIQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0 dHBzOi8vZW1lYTAxLnNhZmVsaW5rcy5wcm90ZWN0aW9uLm91dGxvb2suY29tLz91cmw9aHR0cCUz QSUyRiUyRndpa2kubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSUyRiZhbXA7ZGF0YT0wNCU3QzAxJTdDJTdDMTQ0MWQy YTM0YjMwNDMxZDYyM2QwOGQ5ZDkxM2NiNjMlN0M4NGRmOWU3ZmU5ZjY0MGFmYjQzNWFhYWFhYWFh YWFhYSU3QzElN0MwJTdDNjM3Nzc5NTAxMzA0NjA1MDY1JTdDVW5rbm93biU3Q1RXRnBiR1pzYjNk OGV5SldJam9pTUM0d0xqQXdNREFpTENKUUlqb2lWMmx1TXpJaUxDSkJUaUk2SWsxaGFXd2lMQ0pY VkNJNk1uMCUzRCU3QzMwMDAmYW1wO3NkYXRhPXd2WiUyRnk5MGt2NHIzSkV2OEhETEhLJTJGZnpk MERwTG1wZ0twc0dLQTY4QWJNJTNEJmFtcDtyZXNlcnZlZD0wDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAg ICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQ0KXy09ICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlv dXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCENCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC1N YXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBodHRwczovL2VtZWEwMS5zYWZlbGlu a3MucHJvdGVjdGlvbi5vdXRsb29rLmNvbS8/dXJsPWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJTJGbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bSUyRmNvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiZhbXA7ZGF0YT0wNCU3QzAxJTdDJTdDMTQ0MWQyYTM0YjMwNDMxZDYy M2QwOGQ5ZDkxM2NiNjMlN0M4NGRmOWU3ZmU5ZjY0MGFmYjQzNWFhYWFhYWFhYWFhYSU3QzElN0Mw JTdDNjM3Nzc5NTAxMzA0NjA1MDY1JTdDVW5rbm93biU3Q1RXRnBiR1pzYjNkOGV5SldJam9pTUM0 d0xqQXdNREFpTENKUUlqb2lWMmx1TXpJaUxDSkJUaUk2SWsxaGFXd2lMQ0pYVkNJNk1uMCUzRCU3 QzMwMDAmYW1wO3NkYXRhPTZxc0RPT1laJTJCZXpVeFNKNnBOUWhpSEtGWmFrVXNMcHpmdkVUOHcy TlpRSSUzRCZhbXA7cmVzZXJ2ZWQ9MA0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCg0KDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:42 PM PST US From: Tim Ward Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop Hi John, Just measured shoot bolt length. Average total exposed length 22mm. Average total exposed non-tapered length 12mm. I installed a stainless steel plate to door frame to guard against fibre gla ss door frame damage. See photo. They cover the extra DL07 installed in the d oor frame. Distance between DL07 (door and door frame when closed 1-2mm). Do n=99t believe there is a remote chance of the shoot bolts being forced out, without using the door handle. Cheers, Tim Sent from my iPhone Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton CHRISTCHURCH 8052 Hom 03315166 > On 17/01/2022, at 06:20, John Wighton wrote: > et> > > Following on from my last post I reacquainted myself with the build manual sections 34 and 35. > > The part DL07 is the guide mounted in the door, this gives the shoot bolt a n axis to follow - hence it needs to be aligned accurately such that DL06 (s hoot bolt) and the operating rod DL11(F and R) do not bind. > > Doing the above should ensure the shoot bolts protrude equally and follow a longitudinal axis. > > Drilling and opening up the door-side holes is covered in manual 35. It s tates: > > "In this step you will be cutting the holes in the door rebates to accept t he shoot bolts, but first reinforce the area where the holes will be by appl ying 4 plies of =98bid=99 30 mm x 30 mm at the back of the door r ebates (unmoulded side). > Once this layup has fully cured apply a small dab of wet ink, or paint to t he very end of the shoot-bolts. With the door fully pushed home, move the do or handle towards the closed position until the end of the bolt strikes and, hopefully, leaves a witness mark on the door reveal. > > This is your starting point; drill a 1/4" hole and then with a round file c arefully open up the hole just enough to allow a shoot bolt guide to fit in t he door recess, so that when the shoot-bolts are fully extended, the doors a re fully secured and flush with the outside of the fuselage. Use dabs of pai nt on > the shoot-bolt each time you want to enlarge the hole so that you can see w hich areas need filing. Shorten the shoot bolt guides so that they protrude o nly 10 - 12 mm (3/8" - =C2=BD") through the door frame and, ensuring that th ere is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the frame, b ond them in with Araldite 420 and flox." > > I would suggest that there should be another bush (like DL07) that goes in to the doorframe moulding. This could be CNC machined (or 3D printed in a d urable material). The initial opening would 'collect' the DL06 shoot-bolt t aper and guide it into the new bushing. > > An enlarged flange on this new bushing could be made to act in a similar w ay to the UglyMod moulding - i.e. preventing the shoot-bolt from moving rear wards if misaligned. > > In summary > 1. There seems to be a wide tolerance on shoot-bolt length. > 2. Physical examination of Europa shoot-bolts suggests that the end taper a nd radius of the bolt is highly variable. > 3. The locking mech in the door has a nice bushing/guide. > 4. The shoot-bolt on the doorframe locates into a plain hole that has no d imensional tolerances (ref build manual 35). The dimension given has no dat um and may be open to misinterpretation. > 5. A doorframe mounted bushing - correctly designed, should enable more ac curate engagement of the shoot-bolt. > 6. Are the shoot-bolts installed in aircraft sufficiently long? > > Discuss....... > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505690#505690 > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:01 PM PST US From: Tim Ward Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop I had to request 4 extra DL07 from Europa factory. I think they are now incl uded in the kit. Sent from my iPhone Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton CHRISTCHURCH 8052 Hom 03315166 > On 17/01/2022, at 12:03, Paul Mansfield wrote: > > =EF=BB > "I would suggest that there should be another bush (like DL07) that goes i nto the doorframe moulding." > > There is another bush (also called DL07) that goes in the door frame (they were supplied in the kit & I certainly fitted them): > > "Shorten the shoot bolt guides <> through the door frame and, ...ensuring t hat there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the f rame, bond them in ..." > > ... my emphasis. > > HTH, > > Paul > > G-PLPM > > -------- Original message -------- > From: John Wighton > Date: 16/01/2022 17:15 (GMT+00:00) > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt s top > > > Following on from my last post I reacquainted myself with the build manual sections 34 and 35. > > The part DL07 is the guide mounted in the door, this gives the shoot bolt a n axis to follow - hence it needs to be aligned accurately such that DL06 (s hoot bolt) and the operating rod DL11(F and R) do not bind. > > Doing the above should ensure the shoot bolts protrude equally and follow a longitudinal axis. > > Drilling and opening up the door-side holes is covered in manual 35. It s tates: > > "In this step you will be cutting the holes in the door rebates to accept t he shoot bolts, but first reinforce the area where the holes will be by appl ying 4 plies of =C3=A2=82=AC=CB=9Cbid=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2 30 mm x 30 m m at the back of the door rebates (unmoulded side). > Once this layup has fully cured apply a small dab of wet ink, or paint to t he very end of the shoot-bolts. With the door fully pushed home, move the do or handle towards the closed position until the end of the bolt strikes and, hopefully, leaves a witness mark on the door reveal. > > This is your starting point; drill a 1/4" hole and then with a round file c arefully open up the hole just enough to allow a shoot bolt guide to fit in t he door recess, so that when the shoot-bolts are fully extended, the doors a re fully secured and flush with the outside of the fuselage. Use dabs of pai nt on > the shoot-bolt each time you want to enlarge the hole so that you can see w hich areas need filing. Shorten the shoot bolt guides so that they protrude o nly 10 - 12 mm (3/8" - =C3=82=C2=BD") through the door frame and, ensuring t hat there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the f rame, bond them in with Araldite 420 and flox." > > I would suggest that there should be another bush (like DL07) that goes in to the doorframe moulding. This could be CNC machined (or 3D printed in a d urable material). The initial opening would 'collect' the DL06 shoot-bolt t aper and guide it into the new bushing. > > An enlarged flange on this new bushing could be made to act in a similar w ay to the UglyMod moulding - i.e. preventing the shoot-bolt from moving rear wards if misaligned. > > In summary > 1. There seems to be a wide tolerance on shoot-bolt length. > 2. Physical examination of Europa shoot-bolts suggests that the end taper a nd radius of the bolt is highly variable. > 3. The locking mech in the door has a nice bushing/guide. > 4. The shoot-bolt on the doorframe locates into a plain hole that has no d imensional tolerances (ref build manual 35). The dimension given has no dat um and may be open to misinterpretation. > 5. A doorframe mounted bushing - correctly designed, should enable more ac curate engagement of the shoot-bolt. > 6. Are the shoot-bolts installed in aircraft sufficiently long? > > Discuss....... > > -------- > John Wighton > Europa XS trigear G-IPOD > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums .matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D505690%23505690&data=04%7C01%7C%7 C1441d2a34b30431d623d08d9d913cb63%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0 %7C637779501304605065%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2 luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=PLRv0DpQHJGzh%2B75IS Zu5H3W5CUbPm7UWwBjIWTJroo%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > ========================== ========= %2F%2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=04%7C01%7C%7C14 41d2a34b30431d623d08d9d913cb63%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C 637779501304605065%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM zIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=yXsuWjf3J0fVnVNIg0fsqy2 mBp265U28s1T43%2Br0OXc%3D&reserved=0 ========================== ========= %2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1441d2a34b30431d623d08 d9d913cb63%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779501304605065%7 CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiL CJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=kVs4vKB0NfZRKADGPg1rsti9pBoHhlnRpIIx2qx3cg4 %3D&reserved=0 ========================== ========= %2F%2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1441d2a34b30431d623d08d9 d913cb63%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779501304605065%7CU nknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=wvZ%2Fy90kv4r3JEv8HDLHK%2Ffzd0DpLmpgKpsGKA68A bM%3D&reserved=0 ========================== ========= A%2F%2Fmatronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1441d2a34b30431d 623d08d9d913cb63%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63777950130460 5065%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1 haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=6qsDOOYZ%2BezUxSJ6pNQhiHKFZakUsLpzfvE T8w2NZQI%3D&reserved=0 ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:14 PM PST US From: Westnet Mail Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop >>...ensuring that there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in the door and the frame, bond them in ..." I have seen several Europas with the aluminium guides DL07 installed in the d oor frames however, there were no such guides included in my kit and no ment ion whatsoever in my build manual. It appears the idea was introduced belat edly and I suspect with the introduction of the XS. Since I have never had any problems with the shoot bolts, I have elected to l et sleeping dogs lie. Best regards Kingsley in Oz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.