Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:38 AM - Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (John Wighton)
2. 12:44 AM - Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (John Wighton)
3. 04:27 AM - Re: Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (D McFadyean)
4. 07:42 AM - Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (Kelvin Weston)
5. 01:45 PM - What did you do with your Europa this week, 1/17 - 1/24 (h&jeuropa)
6. 03:47 PM - Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop (budyerly@msn.com)
7. 04:39 PM - Out For Covid Omicron Do not archive. (budyerly@msn.com)
8. 10:23 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 1/17 - 1/24 (timward)
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| Subject: | Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
Thanks Tim, very useful.
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505700#505700
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| Subject: | Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
Do you have that mad mod mood vibe, Duncan?
:-)
do not archive
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505701#505701
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| Subject: | Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt |
stop
The outer (doorframe) guides were supplied with Classic kit no.175, mid 1990's.
I substituted with brass, due to concerns of galling. No doors lost (yet).
BTW, I also have guides that position the doors for closing squarely in to the
frame, reduces gap and limits for-aft movement of the doors when closed; maybe
fuselage flexing in flight is providing differential movement betwix door and
frame and helping some shoot bolts to 'walk out'??
Duncan McF
do not archive
> On 17 January 2022 at 04:40 Westnet Mail <kingsnjan@westnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>
> >>...ensuring that there is a gap of only 1 - 2 mm between the guides in
the door and the frame, bond them in ..."
>
> I have seen several Europas with the aluminium guides DL07 installed in the
door frames however, there were no such guides included in my kit and no mention
whatsoever in my build manual. It appears the idea was introduced belatedly
and I suspect with the introduction of the XS.
>
> Since I have never had any problems with the shoot bolts, I have elected
to let sleeping dogs lie.
>
> Best regards
>
> Kingsley in Oz
>
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| Subject: | Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
Gents
Now I am confused.......
Are we suggesting that early kits were supplied with only 4 DL07 shoot bolt guides?
My kit, No: 497 was supplied around 2001 and certainly came with 8 guides.
Chapter 35, Step 5 of the current build manual, although badly written, implies
that a guide should be fitted in the fuselage door frame and states:
"open up the hole just enough to allow a shoot bolt guide to fit in the door recess"
and "bond them in with Araldite 420 and flox".
That said, it is difficult to tell from the pictures in the current AAIB report
if the guides are fitted. However, there is no obvious indication of a shoot
bolt having been pulled from the fuselage. The paint damage looks like the normal
door scraping found on most Europas.
Having read previous reports of door losses, I am not aware of any reports of damage
to the rear fuselage door frame caused by extended shoot bolts being ripped
from the fuselage.
My understanding has always been that the door losses were due to the rear shoot
bolt having been extended (closed) but outside of the fuselage door frame and
therefore not secured.
This is what the current LAA mod is designed to prevent.
I used Bud's advice when fitting my doors and used a washer to set the clearance
between the door and fuselage guides. This sets the door in the correct position
and ensures good shoot bolt penetration. There is no-way when the door
is closed correctly that the door is departing the aircraft without causing severe
disruption to the fuselage door frame, Such damage would be obvious on inspection.
I still believe failing to close the door correctly is the cause of door loss rather
than any basic design issues.
If early kits have been completed without DL07 guides in the fuselage door frames,
they appear to have held up pretty well.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.biz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505704#505704
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| Subject: | What did you do with your Europa this week, 1/17 - 1/24 |
Starting thread for this week.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505709#505709
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| Subject: | Re: Mandatory U.K. LAA permit directive. Shoot-Bolt stop |
Duncan,
I did the same Oilite bushing. It's not broke so I'm not fixing it either.
Bud.
For John and others,
I looked for a post/drawings I did some time ago for a builder who manufactured
his door shoot bolts too short, and too wonky (misaligned).
It happens. Getting the shoot bolts aligned can be a challenge on an existing
plane if they were mucked up. The Classic shoot bolts are very pointy, and the
XS are more rounded. This difference in length made for issues for some as
the Build Manual wanted at lease a 3/8-10mm penetration between the door and frame.
The Classic tips were a bit long to clear and we had a couple builders
in the States decide to file off the tip to clear their bushings in the sill,
but forgot to adjust for the total length and as a result, the doors departed.
(OOPS)
Classics only had door guides in the doors, and the door frame was reinforced for
the load with glass. Many of us used the Oilite brass bushings for fuselage
mounted guides in the early days. Worked like a champ. Now the DL07 is standard
and pretty convenient.
The key was the dimension of each bolt extension when in the locked position and
how far it protruded into the DLO7 on the sill. Those of us making our own
from scratch had to sometimes extend our bushings out far enough to meet the requirement,
yet have enough space to clear the door shoot bolt guide so the door
would come down and completely pull down ready to latch without hanging up
on the guides.
After many years 12AY still works darned adequate. Pull the door down and simply
nudge the door handle forward and it slaps home.
My check of the penetration was easy before installing the interior but more importantly,
the ideal clearance between shoot bolt and frame guide seemed to be
1/32 inch so a couple of those 1/2 inch L washers for the wing pins worked well
as an alignment spacer during cure up. I slipped them in with some grease
using a 1/2 in aluminum rod to hold it on the fuselage side and then closed the
door and used the rod to initially align then fully closed the door mechanism
latch. The shoot bolt drove out the aluminum rod and I did the following:
I continued to move the sill bushing in my case until the door handle moved flawlessly
and the two guides were separated only by the spacer.
Later my faster technique did it all in one by reduxing in the door shoot bolt
guide until tacky, then setting the sill DL07 temporarily I closed the door, aligned
the door mechanism and then openned the door and using the above technique
glued in the Door Sill shoot bolt with washer and allowed to cure.
Sorry I can't find that more detailed text and I thought I had a drawing also.
For those of you doing metal guides and other work around, the most important thing
is how far the bolt is in the sill guide. Personally, I use 1/2 inch or
12 mm as my minimum penetration distance. Rebuild your rods using the new manual
if you need better penetration, it's cheap and easy. Then learn how to use
screws to secure your mechanism cover rather than gluing it on. Yuck. Who glues
on what should be an inspection panel? But we can only do that sort of thing
overseas.
As far as trying to save the side of the airplane, that is where the nicely shaped
metal can help. I just touch up my paint. It never fails, at an airshow
somebody has to slam the door down with the doors closed. I can't fix stupid.
Maybe I can, NO MORE AIRSHOWS!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505715#505715
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| Subject: | Out For Covid Omicron Do not archive. |
I've had calls from well wishers and I want to inform everyone we are doing adequately
in our Covid recovery.
Anita had symptoms on or about 27 December. I got the same shortly after on the
30th. I recovered quickly and was fine by the 2nd but Anita went down hill
fast. I took her to the ER and they prescribed light cold medication on the 2nd.
I was still Covid clear. Her cough got worse, and I immediately got her
sinus infection and my lungs began to get congested. I too was declared Covid
on the 5th and was sent home with cold medicine as we were both fully VAXed and
no problems were anticipated. My symptoms got much worse, and I knew by the
13th I was in trouble. I went in and they were pleased with my green congestion
and lung pain. I looked at the pretty young doctor and informed her I've
been monitoring this body for 70 years and if I didn't get antibiotics soon it
would be pneumonia or worse as happens once every 5 years or so if I let it
go too far. Too her credit (and my insurance) she ordered CT/X rays, blood and
other tests and I clearly had significant sinus and lung infections. My learned
doctor prescribed two antibiotics and by today I can breathe and operate
without pain. I do still have coughing and lovely multicolored mucus and bloody
sinus, but all is progressing well now that fever is broken. We may even be
able to get sleep.
More importantly Anita is progressing well and kicked her infection days ago.
Neither of us can hear from the coughing, sinus and throat irritation so we say
WHAT a lot and laugh it off.
No need to call or well wish as I believe we kicked it's butt, but at a 70 year
old's pace. I'll continue to stay off the internet for a while and get completely
cured.
Stay well folks.
Bud and Anita Yerly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505716#505716
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 1/17 - 1/24 |
=EF=BBOk Jim, went for a local flight today around Banks Peninsula (Googl
e) then over the Canterbury Plains back to Rangiora. Landed at a 600m strip t
o see an old friend. Hot temperatures for Canterbury so a little thermal tur
bulence. Cuppa at the:
Club rooms, a bit of gossip, then back to hangar to secure probably my SkyEc
ho ADS-B unit which came adrift during some easterly sea breeze turbulence o
ver the peninsula. Also re glued one of my DL07 door shoot bolt guides that h
ad become detached, thanks to inspecting them yesterday.
Off for a bigger flight next week to the North Island.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
> On 18/01/2022, at 10:52 AM, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
.net>
>
> Starting thread for this week.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505709#505709
>
>
>
>
>
>
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