Today's Message Index:
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1. 07:52 AM - Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? (rparigoris)
2. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? (Bud Yerly)
3. 02:17 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 1/17 - 1/24 (h&jeuropa)
4. 02:19 PM - What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (h&jeuropa)
5. 02:49 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (Tim Ward)
6. 03:19 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (William Daniell)
7. 04:02 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (Robert Borger)
8. 05:42 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (Fred Klein)
9. 06:42 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (Pete)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? |
Hi Bud Thank you for great information on Stalls and Spins! I paid careful attention
to making sure the pivot for aileron was precisely aligned on fuse and wings.
No slop. No change in free play.
That said if I pick up on the tip of each wing by about 300 lbs using my pump jacks,
the wing deflects upward as expected and the ailerons droop some (wash in).
Did you ever fly with 1/8" reflex which would probably become no reflex when pulling
2 Gs in an accelerated stall compared to no reflex at 1g which will probably
become 1/8" wash in when pulling 2 Gs and seeing if the spin behavior is
more benign?
I'm pretty certain Don Dykens incorporated just the right amount to keep the tips
flying when stalling. Did he count on wash in occurring when pulling Gs? No
question that ailerons set even work, but for a newbie Europa Flyier flying
an unproven aircraft, does 1/8" reflex taint things in favor of a more docile
spinner? I have an XS, not Classic. Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505795#505795
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? |
Ron,
No offense but picking the wing tip up verses a distributed wing load achieves
different bending loads on the wing. I reject your wingtip test as definitive.
The outboard wing is nearly 40 square foot, and at 13 pounds roughly per square
foot the tips can load up to about 520 pounds distributed between the two
wings with most of the load forward of the main spar at an angle of about 10-15
degrees off vertical and forward. So simply lifting the tip doesn't hack it
for a deflection. I do agree that the ailerons may droop a bit at maximum G.
However, ask yourself, are you pulling 3.8 Gs normally at the stall. No most
do stalls at or near one G and accelerated stalls normally no higher than 2-3
Gs so if there is any bending down of the ailerons it would be consistent between
wings. This is nothing more than an academic exercise and doesn't really
apply to building and flying in my opinion.
I never modify/fly a plane by adding reflex or modifying the wing without flight
testing and in consort with the designer, I again reject the idea of pre-modifying
based on non definitive flight tests. If you choose to experiment, please
note that if you have flight difficulty remember to warn readers of your non
standard modification first.
The wing at zero sweep and washout designed is excellent. You may need to read
between the lines on my stall synopsis a bit. The root stall tends to move slowly
to the tip unless the wing is warped or damaged and repaired out of rig.
Most tapered wings have between 2-4 degrees of twist to make this happen. Again,
if one does not maintain coordinated flight at the stall you will be surprised
in any airplane when a wing drops. I'll add more on this in another reply
on aileron use and rolling off of the Europa in accelerated stalls.
Sorry I don't experiment on a perfectly good wing.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of rparigoris
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 10:52 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there?
Hi Bud Thank you for great information on Stalls and Spins! I paid careful attention
to making sure the pivot for aileron was precisely aligned on fuse and wings.
No slop. No change in free play.
That said if I pick up on the tip of each wing by about 300 lbs using my pump jacks,
the wing deflects upward as expected and the ailerons droop some (wash in).
Did you ever fly with 1/8" reflex which would probably become no reflex when pulling
2 Gs in an accelerated stall compared to no reflex at 1g which will probably
become 1/8" wash in when pulling 2 Gs and seeing if the spin behavior is
more benign?
I'm pretty certain Don Dykens incorporated just the right amount to keep the tips
flying when stalling. Did he count on wash in occurring when pulling Gs? No
question that ailerons set even work, but for a newbie Europa Flyier flying
an unproven aircraft, does 1/8" reflex taint things in favor of a more docile
spinner? I have an XS, not Classic. Thx. Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D505795%23505795&data=04%7C01%7C%7C45f7504f952c4072a87908d9df51fad0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637786365499882032%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=jCMFwpRmGwzGH7ii0LqGpo4xMsvpk4CDrCyvlMjK9z0%3D&reserved=0
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 1/17 - 1/24 |
Went to the airport so Finn could run in the snow. Not much chance for flying!
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505798#505798
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_112.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 |
Starting thread for this week.
Jim
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505799#505799
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 |
Helping a Europa owner/ pilot replace Perspex in port door which opened and departed
during take off 18 months ago. 25 years since I did the Perspex installation
bringing back memories now.
Tim
Sent from my iPhone
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street
Fendalton
CHRISTCHURCH 8052
Hom 03315166
> On 25/01/2022, at 11:26, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Starting thread for this week.
>
> Jim
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505799#505799
>
>
>
>
>
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>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 |
[image: image.png]
My mechanic left the door open in the wind necessitating new hinges
and this repair.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 5:53 PM Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> Helping a Europa owner/ pilot replace Perspex in port door which opened
> and departed during take off 18 months ago. 25 years since I did the
> Perspex installation bringing back memories now.
> Tim
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Tim Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street
> Fendalton
> CHRISTCHURCH 8052
> Hom 03315166
>
> > On 25/01/2022, at 11:26, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
> >
att.net>
> >
> > Starting thread for this week.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505799#505799
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 |
Group,
Was finally able to get a friend to help me put the wings back on after an extended
annual followed by some tinkering. Weather doesnt look too promising for
aviation the rest of this week. Windy, cold and cloudy. Plenty of time to
give it a good going over prior to taking to the air again.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Sent from my iPad
> On Jan 24, 2022, at 16:23, h&jeuropa <butcher43@att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Starting thread for this week.
>
> Jim
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505799#505799
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 |
Syncing a GoPro 10 to my iPhone13enthralled by youtube instructional videosan amazing
little camerafabricating nonintrusive attach points @ top of vertical fin,
top & bottom of port wingtip, plus some spots within the cockpit.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 |
Sweet! Please do share all that upcoming footage! :)
Cheers,
PeteZ
> On Jan 24, 2022, at 8:50 PM, Fred Klein <freddythek10@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Syncing a GoPro 10 to my iPhone13enthralled by youtube instructional videosan
amazing little camerafabricating nonintrusive attach points @ top of vertical
fin, top & bottom of port wingtip, plus some spots within the cockpit.
>
>
>
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