---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/24/22: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:52 AM - Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? (rparigoris) 2. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? (Bud Yerly) 3. 02:17 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 1/17 - 1/24 (h&jeuropa) 4. 02:19 PM - What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (h&jeuropa) 5. 02:49 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (Tim Ward) 6. 03:19 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (William Daniell) 7. 04:02 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (Robert Borger) 8. 05:42 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (Fred Klein) 9. 06:42 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 (Pete) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:02 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? From: "rparigoris" Hi Bud Thank you for great information on Stalls and Spins! I paid careful attention to making sure the pivot for aileron was precisely aligned on fuse and wings. No slop. No change in free play. That said if I pick up on the tip of each wing by about 300 lbs using my pump jacks, the wing deflects upward as expected and the ailerons droop some (wash in). Did you ever fly with 1/8" reflex which would probably become no reflex when pulling 2 Gs in an accelerated stall compared to no reflex at 1g which will probably become 1/8" wash in when pulling 2 Gs and seeing if the spin behavior is more benign? I'm pretty certain Don Dykens incorporated just the right amount to keep the tips flying when stalling. Did he count on wash in occurring when pulling Gs? No question that ailerons set even work, but for a newbie Europa Flyier flying an unproven aircraft, does 1/8" reflex taint things in favor of a more docile spinner? I have an XS, not Classic. Thx. Ron P. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505795#505795 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:15 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? Ron, No offense but picking the wing tip up verses a distributed wing load achieves different bending loads on the wing. I reject your wingtip test as definitive. The outboard wing is nearly 40 square foot, and at 13 pounds roughly per square foot the tips can load up to about 520 pounds distributed between the two wings with most of the load forward of the main spar at an angle of about 10-15 degrees off vertical and forward. So simply lifting the tip doesn't hack it for a deflection. I do agree that the ailerons may droop a bit at maximum G. However, ask yourself, are you pulling 3.8 Gs normally at the stall. No most do stalls at or near one G and accelerated stalls normally no higher than 2-3 Gs so if there is any bending down of the ailerons it would be consistent between wings. This is nothing more than an academic exercise and doesn't really apply to building and flying in my opinion. I never modify/fly a plane by adding reflex or modifying the wing without flight testing and in consort with the designer, I again reject the idea of pre-modifying based on non definitive flight tests. If you choose to experiment, please note that if you have flight difficulty remember to warn readers of your non standard modification first. The wing at zero sweep and washout designed is excellent. You may need to read between the lines on my stall synopsis a bit. The root stall tends to move slowly to the tip unless the wing is warped or damaged and repaired out of rig. Most tapered wings have between 2-4 degrees of twist to make this happen. Again, if one does not maintain coordinated flight at the stall you will be surprised in any airplane when a wing drops. I'll add more on this in another reply on aileron use and rolling off of the Europa in accelerated stalls. Sorry I don't experiment on a perfectly good wing. Best Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of rparigoris Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 10:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Stalls & spins - any test pilot pireps out there? Hi Bud Thank you for great information on Stalls and Spins! I paid careful attention to making sure the pivot for aileron was precisely aligned on fuse and wings. No slop. No change in free play. That said if I pick up on the tip of each wing by about 300 lbs using my pump jacks, the wing deflects upward as expected and the ailerons droop some (wash in). Did you ever fly with 1/8" reflex which would probably become no reflex when pulling 2 Gs in an accelerated stall compared to no reflex at 1g which will probably become 1/8" wash in when pulling 2 Gs and seeing if the spin behavior is more benign? I'm pretty certain Don Dykens incorporated just the right amount to keep the tips flying when stalling. Did he count on wash in occurring when pulling Gs? No question that ailerons set even work, but for a newbie Europa Flyier flying an unproven aircraft, does 1/8" reflex taint things in favor of a more docile spinner? I have an XS, not Classic. Thx. Ron P. Read this topic online here: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.matronics.com%2Fviewtopic.php%3Fp%3D505795%23505795&data=04%7C01%7C%7C45f7504f952c4072a87908d9df51fad0%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637786365499882032%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=jCMFwpRmGwzGH7ii0LqGpo4xMsvpk4CDrCyvlMjK9z0%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:09 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: What did you do with your Europa this week, 1/17 - 1/24 From: "h&jeuropa" Went to the airport so Finn could run in the snow. Not much chance for flying! Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505798#505798 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/capture_112.jpg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:56 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 From: "h&jeuropa" Starting thread for this week. Jim Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505799#505799 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:53 PM PST US From: Tim Ward Subject: Re: Europa-List: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 Helping a Europa owner/ pilot replace Perspex in port door which opened and departed during take off 18 months ago. 25 years since I did the Perspex installation bringing back memories now. Tim Sent from my iPhone Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton CHRISTCHURCH 8052 Hom 03315166 > On 25/01/2022, at 11:26, h&jeuropa wrote: > > > Starting thread for this week. > > Jim > > Do Not Archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505799#505799 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:18 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 [image: image.png] My mechanic left the door open in the wind necessitating new hinges and this repair. William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 5:53 PM Tim Ward wrote: > > Helping a Europa owner/ pilot replace Perspex in port door which opened > and departed during take off 18 months ago. 25 years since I did the > Perspex installation bringing back memories now. > Tim > Sent from my iPhone > > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street > Fendalton > CHRISTCHURCH 8052 > Hom 03315166 > > > On 25/01/2022, at 11:26, h&jeuropa wrote: > > att.net> > > > > Starting thread for this week. > > > > Jim > > > > Do Not Archive > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505799#505799 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:33 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 Group, Was finally able to get a friend to help me put the wings back on after an extended annual followed by some tinkering. Weather doesnt look too promising for aviation the rest of this week. Windy, cold and cloudy. Plenty of time to give it a good going over prior to taking to the air again. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Sent from my iPad > On Jan 24, 2022, at 16:23, h&jeuropa wrote: > > > Starting thread for this week. > > Jim > > Do Not Archive > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505799#505799 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:41 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 Syncing a GoPro 10 to my iPhone13enthralled by youtube instructional videosan amazing little camerafabricating nonintrusive attach points @ top of vertical fin, top & bottom of port wingtip, plus some spots within the cockpit. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:53 PM PST US From: Pete Subject: Re: Europa-List: What did you do with your Europa this week 1/24 - 1/31 Sweet! Please do share all that upcoming footage! :) Cheers, PeteZ > On Jan 24, 2022, at 8:50 PM, Fred Klein wrote: > > > Syncing a GoPro 10 to my iPhone13enthralled by youtube instructional videosan amazing little camerafabricating nonintrusive attach points @ top of vertical fin, top & bottom of port wingtip, plus some spots within the cockpit. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.