Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:32 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/18/22 (n7188u)
2. 12:54 PM - Which primer ? (daaza22)
3. 03:29 PM - Re: Which primer ? (Area-51)
4. 07:10 PM - Re: Bowed doors (budyerly@msn.com)
5. 07:30 PM - Re: Which primer ? (budyerly@msn.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 04/18/22 |
Thanks for the feedback Bud. During construction I used a friend's engine hoist
successfully. I currently don't have that hoist but of course they are not really
expensive.
For traveling I do have a jack block I carry in the airplane. And would certainly
remove the plenum box if I needed to jack the airplane up.
In my hangar I have a hoist attached to the roof rafters that is good for engine
work and used it to lift the airplane without wings. Now that the airplane is
assembled and heavier I am a little leery of lifting it using that hoist (although
it is quite practical).
But I got plenty of info right now. Thanks for all the help the various forum members
provided!
Chris
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Hi everybody
I am at the "fill and sand " stage of the build of my foam wing classic .
I am looking for your thoughts on the paint systems I can use .
I am in the UK so its needs to LAA compliant . Also a rough indication of the amount
of primer and top coat need please .
I asked Karen last year before she left Europa about paint but she said they
no longer supply or recommend any types .
cheers Darren
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| Subject: | Re: Which primer ? |
It depends how much time money and quality you are expecting; its a real how long
is a piece of string question. Painting is an ordered process of preparation,
cleanliness and layering; anyone can do it following the right technique. Its
all about preparation.
PPG offer a great range of aviation tailored paint system; however you will need
to ensure what ever base primer filler you use is suitable for the resin used
to manufacture the europa's composite components; there are different types
which are affected by different types of paint thinners.
That being said any paint system suitable for polyester resin would not affect
the base structure.
PPG and GLASURIT are the two main producers of all major paint brand systems; then
you have House of Color and a few other custom produces in the hotrod industry.
The guy behind the counter will tell you which is which and the same for
50% less $$$$.
There are different automotive polyester fillers available with different mass
qualities and softness; some are used for large areas others for feather finishing;
watch some youtube so you understand which ones to use and when. Practice
on the job. If you stuff up you can rub it off and start again.
What ever quality your base coat and filler is is what you will see at the end;
this is where 90% of your time should be focused. Get some flexible "blocking"
pads. Not the little palm size sponge pads; buy a kit of Dura-Block; they will
last you a lifetime and get you a mirror glass surface finish everyone always
expects from the little palm sponge. Again watch some youtube videos on how
to use them affectively.
Personally I would stick with chemical solvent based epoxy primer and top coat
all the way; have used water based systems and they are crap; that being said
you can use water based primer and top coat right through and lay solvent based
clear over the top at the end. You won't need etching primer as there is no
metal for it to bond to but an epoxy "high-fill" primer may have an etching component
already in it.
Buy a good spray gun for top coats; buy a cheap one for primer and spray filler...
you will need at least 30cfm water filtered air supply, and a clean dust free
room, to get a good top coat finish, if breathing a filtered air supply is
an issue then stick to an acrylic water based paint system; epoxy solvent based
systems are cyanide based and will make you feel quite ill for maybe many years
or collapse on the floor dead in about 20-30 minutes if wearing no breathing
filter at all.
You do not need a baking oven; baking ovens merely speed up curing time and allow
the paint to flow out over the surface a bit better. The paint will still "flash"
off at the same time oven or no oven. Know your flash times when planning
your top and finishing coat spraying; this will affect your surface finish
quality. Read the manufacturer's mixing notes on ambient humidity and temperature
and stick to them like gospel; this will affect everything as well
Other options are forget the top coats and get the aircraft professionally vinyl
wrapped for $$$$.
If all that sounds too much then you can go really really old school by heating
up some oil based shellac paint and flow it on by hand with really expensive
sable brushes and hoping dust and flies don't land on it for 24/36 hours!!!
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Will,
Two things:
I don't blame the door seal. It mainly is the fit of the door/shoot bolts. See
Tech Tip from long ago. Should be on my website also. If you don't see them
I can resend.
I actually have a thicker door seal (5/8") on 12AY. But the bulb is a thinner
material and slightly softer. The door is designed so that when properly fitted
it has a 12mm to 1/2 inch gap between the cockpit flashing and the door. That
is plenty. A door that is poorly fitting enough that one must pull, attach
cables to, or knobs and still fails to seat, needs a tune-up to correct the
fit. As Chris said, I have written on this issue. See my website on hinging
and also on refitting a door (handy if you loose one). I wrote these up as instructions
to clients unable to come to the shop and have me do their installation.
Their doors are just fine. Especially with them taking time to adjust
the clamshell properly.
I chose the thicker bulb seal for the gap that forms at high speed cruise as the
doors flex a bit by the low pressure area on top and sides. Annoying, but in
Florida, not an extreme issue. However, by adding the slightly larger bulb,
it cured my drafty issue when cruising above 10,000 in my shorts and T shirt.
About the doors:
Doors should close and latch with one finger from the outside or inside. In cold
weather like in the UK and Canada, the seals do get hard and frankly, a bit
of push down with bulky clothes on is tough to do. A small knob on the back
of the door is assurance that you have the door in the rebate ready for the latch
to fall. But again, push the handle down vertically rather than yanking it
inboard (as most do). The lip of the door may hang up on the exterior or if
you didn't round your shoot bolt guides nicely, the two shoot bolt guides may
hit one another and prevent proper seating. I've never really pushed the community
on properly rounding the shoot bolt guides to help align the door. The
guides are tapered but a small lip can be quite a hangup. I"ve always sloped
my guide protrusions for a nice slip fit. I also use a 1/32" 960-8L washer between
my shoot bolt guides while they are curing in place to give me a little
play and a better "slip fit". I also do an alternate mod 66 for my door struts.
Using the LSTechnologies struts I suggested is quite handy as the door stays
open but once past 3/4 down, the strut does not hold the door open. It is
all about geometry.
No one likes to do a door refit, but it is worth the time. Most installers do
not understand how a clamshell door fits (even fewer of the secondhand owners
do) nor do most builders understand the geometry of the curved clamshell and consequently
fail to properly adjust the door guides, and glass installation to
allow the door to fit the door gap perfectly.
As for seals: Go on-line, there are many different shapes and sizes of door seals.
I prefer the round rather than U shape bulb. Sizes can be had from 3/8
to 3/4 inch diameter and bulb thickness from 1mm to nearly 2mm, so there are many
to choose from. Or as some have done, make your own if you can live with
your door fit.
Remember, don't pull in to close, push down on the sill and latching ease is enhanced.
All the lights, and gimmicks to assure closing doesn't replace a push
on the lower door prior to takeoff as a "last chance" doors closed and locked
check.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
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| Subject: | Re: Which primer ? |
I whole heartedly agree.
Buy a paint system (primer and paint per the manufacturer), read what we all have
done. The fill process is put on too much and sand it all off.
I wrote on what I use and is on the Website, but the key is good equipment and
paint. I personally don't like polyester fillers directly on epoxy, but if you
prime bare epoxy first then put polyester filler over the primer, it works just
fine and is faster than expand cell and epoxy. Although expand cell/epoxy
is a great filler and flexible, cure time is a pain. Getting it consistent is
also an issue that high grade polyester or vinyl ester fillers don't have. That's
why professionals use these off the shelf fillers, they are faster and more
consistent.
Epoxy primer sticks to etching and lacquer primers and fillers extremely well.
A good two part polyurethane top coat made for aircraft is preferred over any
car paint for super long lasting shine.
Good materials cost more, but frankly, the tech support is great if you have an
issue, they can walk you through painting in imperfect conditions. Do not skimp
on safety gear. Don't breath in polyurethane paint get a forced air system.
Equipment makes a difference. Good sanding blocks, time and patience makes the
difference on prep. A smooth filler sanding makes for a good looking job. Any
sanding scratch or pin hole will show through nearly all filler primers.
Good primers sanded out properly allow you to take care of pin holes, and makes
the top coat finish gratifying. It is all about the prep.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
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