Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:09 AM - Re: Fuel tank leak (Area-51)
2. 06:27 AM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 7/9 - 7/15 (n7188u)
3. 07:46 AM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 7/9 - 7/15 (Erich Trombley)
4. 10:51 AM - Re: Fuel tank leak (spcialeffects)
5. 11:23 AM - Re: Fuel tank leak (n7188u)
6. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (William Daniell)
7. 02:25 PM - Re: Fuel tank leak (n7188u)
8. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (William Daniell)
9. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (Pete Zut)
10. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (William Daniell)
11. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (Pete Zut)
12. 04:31 PM - Re: Fuel tank leak (Area-51)
13. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (Wladimir Kummer)
14. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (William Daniell)
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
This seems to be a common issue.. wondering if its cost effective to reproduce
these fuel tanks in polyethylene blow molding?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507444#507444
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 7/9 - 7/15 |
Short 15 minute flight for breakfast this Saturday. Nice.
No picture - Sorry.
Getting the itch to begin the painting process. My plan is to slowly do the small
parts (control surfaces, cowling, covers) and leave the fuselage and wings
to the end.
Yes, I could do all at once but between family and work it's hard to find the time
unless I ground the airplane for a long time, which I don't want to do. I
used up all my family permitted "work-on-the-airplane" time allowance :)
Was considering a trip to Oshkosh but realistically can't (not enough vacation
time). Planning to do Triple Tree in September which I really enjoyed last year.
But the airplane is flying great. The more I fly this little thing the more I like
it.
Best,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507445#507445
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| Subject: | RE: What did you do with your Europa this week 7/9 - 7/15 |
I took N28ET up for a test flight last week. Had a similar experience as Area-51,
very windy & bumpy, and here in Las Vegas unpleasantly hot. It had been
well over a month since I last flew my bird. Despite the conditions, I was pleased
that my new carbon fiber bulkhead which supports the AP pitch servo worked
as expected.
N28ET is a Classic Monowheel and I mounted the pitch servo on the aft side of the
main wheel tunnel bulkhead as a retro fit installation. I do not recommend
this location. While I thought it would make for an easier installation, this
proved not to be the case. Access is not very good and setting up the servo
was challenging. Also, the original glass/plywood sandwich bulkhead was too
flimsy and would flex during servo activation, which resulted in huge altitude
excursions. The new bulkhead is constructed from 1/4 thick carbon/foam sandwich
material a hangar mate had available. This stuff is incredibly stiff and
much lighter than the original.
With only a couple of weeks left until Oshkosh I am making final preparations.
Fred Klein will be accompanying me this year so it should make for a great trip.
Thats it for now,
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
Sent you at email Will, hope it reaches you
Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507447#507447
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
Sorry to hear Will. I hope the repair goes smoothly.
I think that the day I go through this I will make a fiberglass tank as done by
one of our members in the US. I met him during SnF this year but can't remember
his name. My LongEZ tank is epoxy glass construction and is 30 years old with
no leaks. This member built a foam plug covered with duct tape for release
and then covered with glass. Made a top and bottom and then joined together once
the plug was removed. Also made some really nice aluminum reinforced sections
to drill and tap to use screw fittings for the pickup at the bottom. Much better
than the silly bosses our tanks have. He also adjusted the size so that
the door sill would not need to be cut (or so is my understanding).
He did a nice job and he's happy with the outcome. Of course, getting a PE tank,
if still available, is the fastest and less labor intensive route but then you
run the risk of going through the same BS in the future.
BTW, make 100% sure it is the tank. My neighbor once swore he had a tank leak and
it was hose/fitting related. But I am sure you checked for that.
Best of luck,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507448#507448
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
Chris
I am pretty sure its the tank...nothing else is leaking and it was firmly
glued in place.
I have looked at the composite option but it appears that it won't work
with ethanol blends....works with AVGAS tho.
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 2:25 PM n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry to hear Will. I hope the repair goes smoothly.
>
> I think that the day I go through this I will make a fiberglass tank as
> done by one of our members in the US. I met him during SnF this year but
> can't remember his name. My LongEZ tank is epoxy glass construction and is
> 30 years old with no leaks. This member built a foam plug covered with duct
> tape for release and then covered with glass. Made a top and bottom and
> then joined together once the plug was removed. Also made some really nice
> aluminum reinforced sections to drill and tap to use screw fittings for the
> pickup at the bottom. Much better than the silly bosses our tanks have. He
> also adjusted the size so that the door sill would not need to be cut (or
> so is my understanding).
>
> He did a nice job and he's happy with the outcome. Of course, getting a PE
> tank, if still available, is the fastest and less labor intensive route but
> then you run the risk of going through the same BS in the future.
>
> BTW, make 100% sure it is the tank. My neighbor once swore he had a tank
> leak and it was hose/fitting related. But I am sure you checked for that.
>
> Best of luck,
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507448#507448
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and age you
can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncommon in the boating
world.
I did find this:
https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/
However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it not working
(and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel system).
Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier.
let us know what you end up doing.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
Chris thanks
yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He
tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it
was already soft after a week!
Ill give these guys a ring...
I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more
difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the
UK so we'll see if they respond.
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and
> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncommon
> in the boating world.
>
> I did find this:
>
>
> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/
>
> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it
> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel
> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier.
>
> let us know what you end up doing.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
ya, the canard-clan's use of E-Z Poxy with their slow hardner works great
for alc-free mogas as per the tank I made for my HummelBird - 4 years ago
and still nice and hard without any flaking.
I'm sure it would get soft with E95 tho.
Cheers,
PeteZ
PS- if going the with a stock tank, get it re-flouronated by these guys
that are in the supply chain for the auto industry tanks and shampoo
bottles. I did my stock tank and it came back with a severe frosted finish
- so it must be doing something :-) It sadly still has not seen mogas yet
:-(
On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:58 PM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Chris thanks
>
> yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He
> tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it
> was already soft after a week!
>
> Ill give these guys a ring...
>
> I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more
> difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the
> UK so we'll see if they respond.
>
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +1 786 878 0246
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and
>> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncommon
>> in the boating world.
>>
>> I did find this:
>>
>>
>> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/
>>
>> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it
>> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel
>> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier.
>>
>> let us know what you end up doing.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
thanks pete. I was actually looking for a "flourinator"!
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 6:29 PM Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
> ya, the canard-clan's use of E-Z Poxy with their slow hardner works great
> for alc-free mogas as per the tank I made for my HummelBird - 4 years ago
> and still nice and hard without any flaking.
>
> I'm sure it would get soft with E95 tho.
>
> Cheers,
> PeteZ
>
> PS- if going the with a stock tank, get it re-flouronated by these guys
> that are in the supply chain for the auto industry tanks and shampoo
> bottles. I did my stock tank and it came back with a severe frosted finish
> - so it must be doing something :-) It sadly still has not seen mogas yet
> :-(
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:58 PM William Daniell <
> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Chris thanks
>>
>> yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He
>> tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it
>> was already soft after a week!
>>
>> Ill give these guys a ring...
>>
>> I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more
>> difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the
>> UK so we'll see if they respond.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> William Daniell
>> LONGPORT
>> +1 786 878 0246
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and
>>> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncommon
>>> in the boating world.
>>>
>>> I did find this:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/
>>>
>>> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it
>>> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel
>>> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier.
>>>
>>> let us know what you end up doing.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ==========
>>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>> ==========
>>> FORUMS -
>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> WIKI -
>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>> b Site -
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>>> ==========
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
When I did mine, I requested their full automotive level (to meet EPA)
fwiw.
Cheers,
PeteZ
On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 7:13 PM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport@gmail.com>
wrote:
> thanks pete. I was actually looking for a "flourinator"!
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +1 786 878 0246
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 6:29 PM Pete Zut <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
>> ya, the canard-clan's use of E-Z Poxy with their slow hardner works great
>> for alc-free mogas as per the tank I made for my HummelBird - 4 years ago
>> and still nice and hard without any flaking.
>>
>> I'm sure it would get soft with E95 tho.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> PeteZ
>>
>> PS- if going the with a stock tank, get it re-flouronated by these guys
>> that are in the supply chain for the auto industry tanks and shampoo
>> bottles. I did my stock tank and it came back with a severe frosted finish
>> - so it must be doing something :-) It sadly still has not seen mogas yet
>> :-(
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:58 PM William Daniell <
>> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Chris thanks
>>>
>>> yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He
>>> tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it
>>> was already soft after a week!
>>>
>>> Ill give these guys a ring...
>>>
>>> I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more
>>> difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the
>>> UK so we'll see if they respond.
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>> William Daniell
>>> LONGPORT
>>> +1 786 878 0246
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day
>>>> and age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not
>>>> uncommon in the boating world.
>>>>
>>>> I did find this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/
>>>>
>>>> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of
>>>> it not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the
>>>> fuel system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly
>>>> heavier.
>>>>
>>>> let us know what you end up doing.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ==========
>>>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>>>> ==========
>>>> FORUMS -
>>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> WIKI -
>>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>> ==========
>>>> b Site -
>>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>>>> ==========
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
Have a look at epoxy materials and processes used for constructing motorcycle racing
tanks; they are used to successfully contain 100% ethanol, methanol and
blended fuel; basically the inside of the tank is treated with a long lasting
(+10 years) membrane liquid before operationsl use.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507456#507456
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
Hi William,
You may search for vynilester resins. Here in Brazil our fuel has 25% of
ethanol and lots of old car builders use Derakane (411-350) for their fuel
tanks with great success.
Best regards
Wladimir
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<https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaig
n=signaturevirality11&>
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11/07/22
21:50:21
Em seg., 11 de jul. de 2022 =C3-s 18:54, William Daniell <
wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
> Chris thanks
>
> yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He
> tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol
it
> was already soft after a week!
>
> Ill give these guys a ring...
>
> I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more
> difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in t
he
> UK so we'll see if they respond.
>
> Will
>
> William Daniell
> LONGPORT
> +1 786 878 0246
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and
>> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncomm
on
>> in the boating world.
>>
>> I did find this:
>>
>>
>> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/
max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fibergla
ssing-carbon-fiber/
>>
>> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it
>> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the f
uel
>> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier.
>>
>> let us know what you end up doing.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> ==========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank leak |
Interesting
I will follow that up.
Thanks
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 20:55 Wladimir Kummer <wladimirkummer@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi William,
>
> You may search for vynilester resins. Here in Brazil our fuel has 25% of
> ethanol and lots of old car builders use Derakane (411-350) for their fue
l
> tanks with great success.
>
> Best regards
>
> Wladimir
>
>
> [image: Mailtrack]
> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campa
ign=signaturevirality11&> Sender
> notified by
> Mailtrack
> <https://mailtrack.io?utm_source=gmail&utm_medium=signature&utm_campa
ign=signaturevirality11&> 11/07/22
> 21:50:21
>
> Em seg., 11 de jul. de 2022 =C3-s 18:54, William Daniell <
> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>>
>> Chris thanks
>>
>> yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He
>> tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol
it
>> was already soft after a week!
>>
>> Ill give these guys a ring...
>>
>> I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more
>> difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in
the
>> UK so we'll see if they respond.
>>
>> Will
>>
>> William Daniell
>> LONGPORT
>> +1 786 878 0246
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day an
d
>>> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncom
mon
>>> in the boating world.
>>>
>>> I did find this:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant
/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fibergl
assing-carbon-fiber/
>>>
>>> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of i
t
>>> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the
fuel
>>> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier
.
>>>
>>> let us know what you end up doing.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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>>>
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