---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/11/22: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:09 AM - Re: Fuel tank leak (Area-51) 2. 06:27 AM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 7/9 - 7/15 (n7188u) 3. 07:46 AM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 7/9 - 7/15 (Erich Trombley) 4. 10:51 AM - Re: Fuel tank leak (spcialeffects) 5. 11:23 AM - Re: Fuel tank leak (n7188u) 6. 02:07 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (William Daniell) 7. 02:25 PM - Re: Fuel tank leak (n7188u) 8. 02:52 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (William Daniell) 9. 03:27 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (Pete Zut) 10. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (William Daniell) 11. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (Pete Zut) 12. 04:31 PM - Re: Fuel tank leak (Area-51) 13. 05:54 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (Wladimir Kummer) 14. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tank leak (William Daniell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:34 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak From: "Area-51" This seems to be a common issue.. wondering if its cost effective to reproduce these fuel tanks in polyethylene blow molding? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507444#507444 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 7/9 - 7/15 From: "n7188u" Short 15 minute flight for breakfast this Saturday. Nice. No picture - Sorry. Getting the itch to begin the painting process. My plan is to slowly do the small parts (control surfaces, cowling, covers) and leave the fuselage and wings to the end. Yes, I could do all at once but between family and work it's hard to find the time unless I ground the airplane for a long time, which I don't want to do. I used up all my family permitted "work-on-the-airplane" time allowance :) Was considering a trip to Oshkosh but realistically can't (not enough vacation time). Planning to do Triple Tree in September which I really enjoyed last year. But the airplane is flying great. The more I fly this little thing the more I like it. Best, Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507445#507445 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:02 AM PST US From: Erich Trombley Subject: Europa-List: RE: What did you do with your Europa this week 7/9 - 7/15 I took N28ET up for a test flight last week. Had a similar experience as Area-51, very windy & bumpy, and here in Las Vegas unpleasantly hot. It had been well over a month since I last flew my bird. Despite the conditions, I was pleased that my new carbon fiber bulkhead which supports the AP pitch servo worked as expected. N28ET is a Classic Monowheel and I mounted the pitch servo on the aft side of the main wheel tunnel bulkhead as a retro fit installation. I do not recommend this location. While I thought it would make for an easier installation, this proved not to be the case. Access is not very good and setting up the servo was challenging. Also, the original glass/plywood sandwich bulkhead was too flimsy and would flex during servo activation, which resulted in huge altitude excursions. The new bulkhead is constructed from 1/4 thick carbon/foam sandwich material a hangar mate had available. This stuff is incredibly stiff and much lighter than the original. With only a couple of weeks left until Oshkosh I am making final preparations. Fred Klein will be accompanying me this year so it should make for a great trip. Thats it for now, Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:39 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak From: "spcialeffects" Sent you at email Will, hope it reaches you Frank Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507447#507447 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:40 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak From: "n7188u" Sorry to hear Will. I hope the repair goes smoothly. I think that the day I go through this I will make a fiberglass tank as done by one of our members in the US. I met him during SnF this year but can't remember his name. My LongEZ tank is epoxy glass construction and is 30 years old with no leaks. This member built a foam plug covered with duct tape for release and then covered with glass. Made a top and bottom and then joined together once the plug was removed. Also made some really nice aluminum reinforced sections to drill and tap to use screw fittings for the pickup at the bottom. Much better than the silly bosses our tanks have. He also adjusted the size so that the door sill would not need to be cut (or so is my understanding). He did a nice job and he's happy with the outcome. Of course, getting a PE tank, if still available, is the fastest and less labor intensive route but then you run the risk of going through the same BS in the future. BTW, make 100% sure it is the tank. My neighbor once swore he had a tank leak and it was hose/fitting related. But I am sure you checked for that. Best of luck, Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507448#507448 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:54 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak Chris I am pretty sure its the tank...nothing else is leaking and it was firmly glued in place. I have looked at the composite option but it appears that it won't work with ethanol blends....works with AVGAS tho. William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 2:25 PM n7188u wrote: > > Sorry to hear Will. I hope the repair goes smoothly. > > I think that the day I go through this I will make a fiberglass tank as > done by one of our members in the US. I met him during SnF this year but > can't remember his name. My LongEZ tank is epoxy glass construction and is > 30 years old with no leaks. This member built a foam plug covered with duct > tape for release and then covered with glass. Made a top and bottom and > then joined together once the plug was removed. Also made some really nice > aluminum reinforced sections to drill and tap to use screw fittings for the > pickup at the bottom. Much better than the silly bosses our tanks have. He > also adjusted the size so that the door sill would not need to be cut (or > so is my understanding). > > He did a nice job and he's happy with the outcome. Of course, getting a PE > tank, if still available, is the fastest and less labor intensive route but > then you run the risk of going through the same BS in the future. > > BTW, make 100% sure it is the tank. My neighbor once swore he had a tank > leak and it was hose/fitting related. But I am sure you checked for that. > > Best of luck, > Chris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507448#507448 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:25:29 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak From: "n7188u" You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncommon in the boating world. I did find this: https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/ However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier. let us know what you end up doing. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:36 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak Chris thanks yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it was already soft after a week! Ill give these guys a ring... I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the UK so we'll see if they respond. Will William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u wrote: > > You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and > age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncommon > in the boating world. > > I did find this: > > > https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/ > > However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it > not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel > system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier. > > let us know what you end up doing. > > Chris > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:27:14 PM PST US From: Pete Zut Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak ya, the canard-clan's use of E-Z Poxy with their slow hardner works great for alc-free mogas as per the tank I made for my HummelBird - 4 years ago and still nice and hard without any flaking. I'm sure it would get soft with E95 tho. Cheers, PeteZ PS- if going the with a stock tank, get it re-flouronated by these guys that are in the supply chain for the auto industry tanks and shampoo bottles. I did my stock tank and it came back with a severe frosted finish - so it must be doing something :-) It sadly still has not seen mogas yet :-( On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:58 PM William Daniell wrote: > > Chris thanks > > yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He > tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it > was already soft after a week! > > Ill give these guys a ring... > > I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more > difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the > UK so we'll see if they respond. > > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +1 786 878 0246 > > > On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u wrote: > >> >> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and >> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncommon >> in the boating world. >> >> I did find this: >> >> >> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/ >> >> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it >> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel >> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier. >> >> let us know what you end up doing. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:06:36 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak thanks pete. I was actually looking for a "flourinator"! William Daniell LONGPORT +1 786 878 0246 On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 6:29 PM Pete Zut wrote: > ya, the canard-clan's use of E-Z Poxy with their slow hardner works great > for alc-free mogas as per the tank I made for my HummelBird - 4 years ago > and still nice and hard without any flaking. > > I'm sure it would get soft with E95 tho. > > Cheers, > PeteZ > > PS- if going the with a stock tank, get it re-flouronated by these guys > that are in the supply chain for the auto industry tanks and shampoo > bottles. I did my stock tank and it came back with a severe frosted finish > - so it must be doing something :-) It sadly still has not seen mogas yet > :-( > > > On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:58 PM William Daniell < > wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> Chris thanks >> >> yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He >> tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it >> was already soft after a week! >> >> Ill give these guys a ring... >> >> I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more >> difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the >> UK so we'll see if they respond. >> >> Will >> >> William Daniell >> LONGPORT >> +1 786 878 0246 >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u wrote: >> >>> >>> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and >>> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncommon >>> in the boating world. >>> >>> I did find this: >>> >>> >>> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/ >>> >>> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it >>> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel >>> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier. >>> >>> let us know what you end up doing. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:28 PM PST US From: Pete Zut Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak When I did mine, I requested their full automotive level (to meet EPA) fwiw. Cheers, PeteZ On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 7:13 PM William Daniell wrote: > thanks pete. I was actually looking for a "flourinator"! > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +1 786 878 0246 > > > On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 6:29 PM Pete Zut wrote: > >> ya, the canard-clan's use of E-Z Poxy with their slow hardner works great >> for alc-free mogas as per the tank I made for my HummelBird - 4 years ago >> and still nice and hard without any flaking. >> >> I'm sure it would get soft with E95 tho. >> >> Cheers, >> PeteZ >> >> PS- if going the with a stock tank, get it re-flouronated by these guys >> that are in the supply chain for the auto industry tanks and shampoo >> bottles. I did my stock tank and it came back with a severe frosted finish >> - so it must be doing something :-) It sadly still has not seen mogas yet >> :-( >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:58 PM William Daniell < >> wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> Chris thanks >>> >>> yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He >>> tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it >>> was already soft after a week! >>> >>> Ill give these guys a ring... >>> >>> I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more >>> difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the >>> UK so we'll see if they respond. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> William Daniell >>> LONGPORT >>> +1 786 878 0246 >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day >>>> and age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not >>>> uncommon in the boating world. >>>> >>>> I did find this: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fiberglassing-carbon-fiber/ >>>> >>>> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of >>>> it not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the >>>> fuel system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly >>>> heavier. >>>> >>>> let us know what you end up doing. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Read this topic online here: >>>> >>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ========== >>>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >>>> ========== >>>> FORUMS - >>>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> WIKI - >>>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>>> ========== >>>> b Site - >>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution >>>> ========== >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:10 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak From: "Area-51" Have a look at epoxy materials and processes used for constructing motorcycle racing tanks; they are used to successfully contain 100% ethanol, methanol and blended fuel; basically the inside of the tank is treated with a long lasting (+10 years) membrane liquid before operationsl use. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507456#507456 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:17 PM PST US From: Wladimir Kummer Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak Hi William, You may search for vynilester resins. Here in Brazil our fuel has 25% of ethanol and lots of old car builders use Derakane (411-350) for their fuel tanks with great success. Best regards Wladimir [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 11/07/22 21:50:21 Em seg., 11 de jul. de 2022 =C3-s 18:54, William Daniell < wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> escreveu: > > Chris thanks > > yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He > tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it > was already soft after a week! > > Ill give these guys a ring... > > I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more > difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in t he > UK so we'll see if they respond. > > Will > > William Daniell > LONGPORT > +1 786 878 0246 > > > On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u wrote: > >> >> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day and >> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncomm on >> in the boating world. >> >> I did find this: >> >> >> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant/ max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fibergla ssing-carbon-fiber/ >> >> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of it >> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the f uel >> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier. >> >> let us know what you end up doing. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ========== >> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> ========== >> FORUMS - >> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >> ========== >> WIKI - >> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ========== >> b Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution >> ========== >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:38 PM PST US From: William Daniell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Fuel tank leak Interesting I will follow that up. Thanks William Daniell +1 786 878 0246 On Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 20:55 Wladimir Kummer wrote: > Hi William, > > You may search for vynilester resins. Here in Brazil our fuel has 25% of > ethanol and lots of old car builders use Derakane (411-350) for their fue l > tanks with great success. > > Best regards > > Wladimir > > > [image: Mailtrack] > Sender > notified by > Mailtrack > 11/07/22 > 21:50:21 > > Em seg., 11 de jul. de 2022 =C3-s 18:54, William Daniell < > wdaniell.longport@gmail.com> escreveu: > >> >> Chris thanks >> >> yea... I have googled it and I saw an article by a glasair builder. He >> tried with AVGAS and the composite was fine after a year....with ethanol it >> was already soft after a week! >> >> Ill give these guys a ring... >> >> I am guessing that the aluminium will be heavier and smaller (more >> difficult to include all the complex curves). I have emailed Europa in the >> UK so we'll see if they respond. >> >> Will >> >> William Daniell >> LONGPORT >> +1 786 878 0246 >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 5:26 PM n7188u wrote: >> >>> >>> You bring up a good point Will. However, I would think that this day an d >>> age you can get epoxy that will resist gasoline. FG tanks are not uncom mon >>> in the boating world. >>> >>> I did find this: >>> >>> >>> https://theepoxyexperts.com/shop/adhesives/chemical-and-water-resistant /max-gre/max-gre-96oz-epoxy-resin-gasoline-resistant-4-coating-glue-fibergl assing-carbon-fiber/ >>> >>> However, what a PITA to have to research all this and run the risk of i t >>> not working (and the danger of the tank falling apart and clogging the fuel >>> system). Aluminum would certainly be safer but $$$ and possibly heavier .. >>> >>> let us know what you end up doing. >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=507451#507451 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ========== >>> pa-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >>> ========== >>> FORUMS - >>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> WIKI - >>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com >>> ========== >>> b Site - >>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution >>> ========== >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.