Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:09 AM - Re: Cockpit ventilation (D McFadyean)
2. 01:59 AM - Re: Cockpit ventilation (clivesutton)
3. 02:39 AM - Re: Cockpit ventilation (Rowland Carson)
4. 04:06 AM - Re: Cockpit ventilation (Dpc)
5. 04:07 AM - Re: Cockpit ventilation (Dpc)
6. 07:55 AM - Re: Cockpit ventilation (Rowland Carson)
7. 08:22 AM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week - 18/11/22 (Area-51)
8. 08:24 AM - Re: Cockpit ventilation (Dpc)
9. 10:26 AM - Re: Cockpit ventilation (Paul M 383)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit ventilation |
Arwel,
I have eyeball vents attached to the side NACA vent, which allows direction of
airflow (including away from the knees). These were made from a ping pong ball
with a bit of tube stuck in it, retained by a split spherical molding that is
in turn clamped (with an o-ring) to a tubular posterior extension of the duct.
It's designed to be frangible/recoverable in the event of knee impact, or worse.
Weight was <2oz per side.
Duncan Mcf
> On 20 November 2022 at 18:27 David Cripps <dpc@knightonweb.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Arwel
>
> I have a small sliding hatch in the D-panel in the baggage bay bulkhead that
does exactly what you're suggesting. When this hatch is open, there is significantly
more draught flowing through the cockpit from the side vents. However,
even with it closed there seems to be enough leakage points in the cockpit (gaps
in door seals, throttle and finger brake lever slots, access hatch in tunnel
between seats to fuel selector valve etc) for there still to be plenty of ways
for air to flow out, at least for the flow you'd want at this time of year.
>
> I find the bigger issue is that the side vents do not direct the incoming air
where you really want it, and mainly freeze your knees! There has been mention
by others of some very nicely designed rotating/flap type vents which do direct
air well, but probably need to be installed instead of the standard side vents
at time of building (or at least it looks like it would be quite a rework
job to fit them as replacements for the current side vents).
>
> This winter I am going to experiment with installing some kind of simple moulded
ducting on the inside of the fuselage (maybe even just velcroed onto the carpet
lining for ultimate modifiability) placed over the existing vents. This
would try to 'scoop up' the air from the vents and angle it upwards/inwards. Not
sure if anyone else has tried this but would be interested to hear if they
have.
>
> David
>
> On 20/11/2022, 18:11, "arwel pritchard" <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
on behalf of arwel.pritchard@powercom.ltd.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Good evening all,
>
> I was thinking about cockpit ventilation the other day and thought that
> I can let plenty of fresh air into the cabin from the two side vents,
> but for proper ventilation, all that air needs to leave the cabin as well.
>
> Then, I thought about putting some kind of ventilation grille in the
> rear access panel. This should allow some air to flow through the
> grille, then on through the fuselage and exit at the rear.
>
> Not sure if this would give adequate venting, or work at all, any
> thoughts please?
>
> Thanks
>
> Arwel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit ventilation |
Hi Arwel, your assumptions on the need for a generous cockpit exit air vent are
are bang on correct. I did just this on my aircraft and put a 120mm dia 12v
computer fan behind the panel as well to force airflow when the aircraft is stationary
with the doors closed. My inspector signed this off as a Trivial MOD
that was then declared to the LAA (a pic attached). I made sure a CO monitor
was in the cockpit at the same time.
On incomer/directional air vents, are you aware of MOD12871? Mike Wilde fitted
rotary vents of the type that are now made by Trevor Poulter into his sidewall
(at build, NOT replacing the factory NACA vents) which you can perhaps do as
a repeat MOD - suggest you check with Andy Draper first [you are in the UK?]
Hope it helps
Clive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=508969#508969
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/resized_d_panel_vent_image_225.jpg
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit ventilation |
On 2022-11-20, at 18:27, David Cripps <dpc@knightonweb.com> wrote:
> This winter I am going to experiment with installing some kind of
simple moulded ducting on the inside of the fuselage (maybe even just
velcroed onto the carpet lining for ultimate modifiability) placed over
the existing vents. This would try to 'scoop up' the air from the vents
and angle it upwards/inwards. Not sure if anyone else has tried this but
would be interested to hear if they have.
David - I have added eyeball vents to my NACA ducts as you can see in
the following picture pages from my build journal:
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/eyeball_mount_e.php
<http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/eyeball_mount_e.php>
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/stbd_ventilation_a.php
<http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/stbd_ventilation_a.ph
p>
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/port_ventilation_a.php
<http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/port_ventilation_a.ph
p>
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/stbd_ventilation_b.php
<http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/stbd_ventilation_b.ph
p>
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/port_ventilation_b.php
<http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/port_ventilation_b.ph
p>
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/port_ventilation_c.php
<http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/port_ventilation_c.ph
p>
As I am not yet flying, I don=99t know how effective this very
non-laminar flow arrangement will be, but I hope at least the eyeballs
will allow whatever airflow comes through to be directed to somewhere
useful.
I seem to recall that there has been some previous discussion here about
finding a low-pressure area for the cabin air exhaust vent, but can=99
t recall details now.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit ventilation |
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit ventilation |
Duncan
Id be very interested in any photos you can post of your ping pong ball arrangement!
Thanks
David
> On 21 Nov 2022, at 09:11, D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net> wrote:
>
>
> Arwel,
> I have eyeball vents attached to the side NACA vent, which allows direction of
airflow (including away from the knees). These were made from a ping pong ball
with a bit of tube stuck in it, retained by a split spherical molding that
is in turn clamped (with an o-ring) to a tubular posterior extension of the duct.
It's designed to be frangible/recoverable in the event of knee impact, or
worse. Weight was <2oz per side.
>
> Duncan Mcf
>> On 20 November 2022 at 18:27 David Cripps <dpc@knightonweb.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Arwel
>>
>> I have a small sliding hatch in the D-panel in the baggage bay bulkhead that
does exactly what you're suggesting. When this hatch is open, there is significantly
more draught flowing through the cockpit from the side vents. However,
even with it closed there seems to be enough leakage points in the cockpit (gaps
in door seals, throttle and finger brake lever slots, access hatch in tunnel
between seats to fuel selector valve etc) for there still to be plenty of ways
for air to flow out, at least for the flow you'd want at this time of year.
>>
>> I find the bigger issue is that the side vents do not direct the incoming air
where you really want it, and mainly freeze your knees! There has been mention
by others of some very nicely designed rotating/flap type vents which do direct
air well, but probably need to be installed instead of the standard side
vents at time of building (or at least it looks like it would be quite a rework
job to fit them as replacements for the current side vents).
>>
>> This winter I am going to experiment with installing some kind of simple moulded
ducting on the inside of the fuselage (maybe even just velcroed onto the
carpet lining for ultimate modifiability) placed over the existing vents. This
would try to 'scoop up' the air from the vents and angle it upwards/inwards.
Not sure if anyone else has tried this but would be interested to hear if they
have.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On 20/11/2022, 18:11, "arwel pritchard" <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
on behalf of arwel.pritchard@powercom.ltd.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Good evening all,
>>
>> I was thinking about cockpit ventilation the other day and thought that
>> I can let plenty of fresh air into the cabin from the two side vents,
>> but for proper ventilation, all that air needs to leave the cabin as well.
>>
>> Then, I thought about putting some kind of ventilation grille in the
>> rear access panel. This should allow some air to flow through the
>> grille, then on through the fuselage and exit at the rear.
>>
>> Not sure if this would give adequate venting, or work at all, any
>> thoughts please?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Arwel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit ventilation |
On 2022-11-21, at 12:05, Dpc <dpc@knightonweb.com> wrote:
> Looks like it should work and at least direct the airflow away from
the knees! Have you removed the black finger screw that opens and shuts
the NACA duct and have it permanently open?
>
> Where did you get the eyeball vent from
David - yes, I removed the finger-screw on the 2nd one after the first
self-destructed. I then filled the resulting holes in the mouldings -
see:
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/fill_naca_duct.php
<http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/fill_naca_duct.php>
As to the source of the eyeball vents, I was given a pair of eyeball
vents from another builder Peter Davis way back in 2008. I am not sure
if those are the ones I actually installed, as I also received a pair in
black plastic with a different mechanism from a kind PFA/LAA friend at
some time in the distant past. I think I still have the black ones
knocking about somewhere - would you care to have them if I can find
them?
Alternatively, look for a dashboard from a MkI Cortina!
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson@gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week - 18/11/22 |
Away up high in the friendly sky!!
Some finalisation on the engine cowling today... adjusting the radiator ports and
shifting the side louvres into place to match actuals.
Also set the flap bar and bumped the flap hinges into final position. Discovered
in the process the John had moved the flap bar hinges slightly aft from factory.
On paper his mod provides 5deg additional flap angle...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=508975#508975
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1c54d81e_3d7e_4563_8ff8_5e086c3a4830_685.jpeg
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit ventilation |
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit ventilation |
Aveo make some lovely brushed ali eyeball vents (https://www.aveoengineering.com/lsa-experimental-ul-kits-and-gliders/ > Misc and Accessories)
which I used in the standard vent extension - I believe the Club has the molds
for these (I made mine while demonstrating composite techniques at the LAA Rally
- the reward was I got to keep the parts I made )
I removed the screw mechanism and superfluous plate, much like Rowland did - they
can be closed to block all air entering. This photo does not show the stbd
one well, but you might get the idea.
HTH,
Paul
G-PLPM
Mono XS 912S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=508977#508977
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/90531e96_a645_474a_b6b1_455f4643dce1_900.jpeg
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