Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:53 AM - Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 (Area-51)
2. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 (D McFadyean)
3. 02:24 PM - Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 (Area-51)
4. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 (Pete)
5. 05:03 PM - Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 (Area-51)
6. 06:01 PM - Re: Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 (Pete)
7. 08:06 PM - Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 (Area-51)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 |
Home alone... 6.00am daily inspection for a 7.00am ramp; no clouds, no wind, no
aircraft, no parachutes, no people... lazy departure off 23 with an early low
level turn to the left toward the eastern most point... trundled around the
bubble at 75kt for an hour; best 6 litres of hydrocarbon burnt all week!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509782#509782
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/22a7d9d6_9a00_4143_bff5_a1ed7229a6de_162.jpeg
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 |
Interesting. Is 75kts your Vy? I find my Vy (Classic wings, ULS) slightly higher
to the extent that 6litres/hr is only possible closer to 83knts.
Duncan McF.
> On 25 December 2022 at 13:53 Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Home alone... 6.00am daily inspection for a 7.00am ramp; no clouds, no wind,
no aircraft, no parachutes, no people... lazy departure off 23 with an early
low level turn to the left toward the eastern most point... trundled around the
bubble at 75kt for an hour; best 6 litres of hydrocarbon burnt all week!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509782#509782
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/22a7d9d6_9a00_4143_bff5_a1ed7229a6de_162.jpeg
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 |
Neither Vy or Vx...
75kt is my loiter speed in calm air; flaps and undercarriage retracted.. setting
the rpm at 3900 the aircraft will tootle along happily once trimmed; at 3800rpm
it will tootle along at 70kt and is just starting to feel a little bit mushy
but still quite stable.
80kt on climb out at 5000rpm returns 1600fpm at 500' AMSL and seems to be the Vy
so far...
Still need to do some upper air work to see what Vx actually is; power on stall
is 53kt.
The flaps are about 1deg extended when retracted, and the ailerons are about 1/2deg
positive at neutral; so this would affecting the flight characteristics of
the wing at various velocities. Not sure if John had intentionally set things
up like that; he had a valid reason for all his mods when building.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509785#509785
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 |
Careful not to wear and pocket the gearbox dogs with such a lightly loaded prop
and low rpm.
Cheers PeteZ
C-GNPZ
> On Dec 25, 2022, at 5:30 PM, Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Neither Vy or Vx...
>
> 75kt is my loiter speed in calm air; flaps and undercarriage retracted.. setting
the rpm at 3900 the aircraft will tootle along happily once trimmed; at 3800rpm
it will tootle along at 70kt and is just starting to feel a little bit mushy
but still quite stable.
>
> 80kt on climb out at 5000rpm returns 1600fpm at 500' AMSL and seems to be the
Vy so far...
>
> Still need to do some upper air work to see what Vx actually is; power on stall
is 53kt.
>
> The flaps are about 1deg extended when retracted, and the ailerons are about
1/2deg positive at neutral; so this would affecting the flight characteristics
of the wing at various velocities. Not sure if John had intentionally set things
up like that; he had a valid reason for all his mods when building.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509785#509785
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 |
Thanks and noted Peter...
After spending an entire lifetime pulling stuff apart and analysing cause and effect
of mechanical component failure i'm totally unconvinced on this argument
often presented, simply because the propeller is operating within a state of
constant load resistance leaving both the drive and driven gears no opportunity
for backlash while in this state; if there was backlash occurring that would
be a serious design concern and source of vibration; at my level of experience
my ears and bum would let me know as soon as this occurs, and neither have yet
told me otherwise (not in this individual aircraft; can't say the same for
some other 912 units flown in)... the output shaft is also operating in a state
of harmonic balance thanks to the fitted Balance Master... the carburettor mixtures
and carburettors are in perfect balance... the engine is a low compression
setup... there is no aspect about the power-plant's current operational spectrum
that gives any credibility to the debate... If the engine is not singing
then its out of tune, set at the wrong rpm frequency, or both... under constant
load there are a limited number of factors that can cause gear failure -
insufficient fit-for-purpose material specification, sustained overheating beyond
safe operating temperature range and allowable time of said material, sustained
mechanical vibration at specific alternate frequencies, excessive mechanical
impact of sliding contact surfaces due to backlash (there will always be
an element of backlash required for component heat expansion), ingress of foreign
matter such as swarf other particles dust sand etc.
It is not expected many people in any mechanical field will share my experience,
and am still often left amazed but accepting at what level of damage the majority
of human beings can achieve... could fill a text book with field stories,
but thats about all I have to say on the matter today.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509788#509788
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 |
Not to argue, i will just leave this link to explain my concerns. 4cyl 4stro
kes are murder on gearboxes driving under damped (lightly loaded) air propel
lers with their reverse torque pulses. The site has other pages discussing a
s well fwiw.
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/torsional_excitation_from_pi
ston_engines.htm
Cheers,
PeteZ :)
> On Dec 25, 2022, at 8:09 PM, Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com> wrote
:
>
@gmail.com>
>
> Thanks and noted Peter...
>
> After spending an entire lifetime pulling stuff apart and analysing cause a
nd effect of mechanical component failure i'm totally unconvinced on this ar
gument often presented, simply because the propeller is operating within a s
tate of constant load resistance leaving both the drive and driven gears no o
pportunity for backlash while in this state; if there was backlash occurring
that would be a serious design concern and source of vibration; at my level
of experience my ears and bum would let me know as soon as this occurs, and
neither have yet told me otherwise (not in this individual aircraft; can't s
ay the same for some other 912 units flown in)... the output shaft is also o
perating in a state of harmonic balance thanks to the fitted Balance Master.
.. the carburettor mixtures and carburettors are in perfect balance... the e
ngine is a low compression setup... there is no aspect about the power-plant
's current operational spectrum that gives any credibility to the debate... !
> If the engine is not singing then its out of tune, set at the wrong rpm fr
equency, or both... under constant load there are a limited number of factor
s that can cause gear failure - insufficient fit-for-purpose material specif
ication, sustained overheating beyond safe operating temperature range and a
llowable time of said material, sustained mechanical vibration at specific a
lternate frequencies, excessive mechanical impact of sliding contact surface
s due to backlash (there will always be an element of backlash required for c
omponent heat expansion), ingress of foreign matter such as swarf other part
icles dust sand etc.
>
> It is not expected many people in any mechanical field will share my exper
ience, and am still often left amazed but accepting at what level of damage t
he majority of human beings can achieve... could fill a text book with fiel
d stories, but thats about all I have to say on the matter today.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509788#509788
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your europa this week - 22/12/22 |
Totally agree with the article... give me 12 or 36 cylinders any day of the week...
and this article is exactly why engine rpm frequency is mentioned in my above
commentary.
In simple terms the enlightened engine operator is looking for the rpm load setting
factor that offsets these cylinder firing pulses against the combined resistance
load (torque requested) and centrifugal momentum inertia of all internal
moving components whether 1 or 36 cylinder format... there may generally be
three or even four rpm points where this will occur for each individual engine
and these points are fugitive based upon the changeable factors of fuel, air,
temperature, and mechanical clearances between moving components. This why the
enlightened engine operator is able to quickly discern an out-of-tune state
on a perfectly turned and balanced engine.
This is why, from experience and understanding, extended running of the engine
at 4800rpm, 3800rpm, 1600rpm, 800rpm is not any concern for me. These are the
harmonic frequencies of this individual engine for its set tuned state and minimal
stressed points. If the engine is not singing the above factors are not synchronised;
things will simply wear out sooner...
If i want to set the above engine for 5200rpm then it will need further bench work
on the breathing because at 5200rpm it aint singing at all.
A good place to start for anybody wanting to understand the totality of internal
combustion engines is "Tuning For Speed" - Phil Irving, anybody that says they
know stuff doesnt really know stuff unless they know this book cover to cover.
Its one of my loaded questions when sourcing a suitable engine builder that
i have no prior experience dealing with.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509790#509790
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