Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Re: 912ULS classic radiator cap pressure? (Alan Burrill)
2. 12:40 AM - Re: Re: 912ULS classic radiator cap pressure? (D McFadyean)
3. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: 912ULS classic radiator cap pressure? (Pete Zut)
4. 03:43 AM - Re: Re: 912ULS classic radiator cap pressure? (Steve Ivell)
5. 05:10 AM - Re: Trutrak AP with Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz (David Cripps)
6. 05:20 AM - Groundspeed anomaly (JonathanMilbank)
7. 06:49 AM - New Year Flight (Alan Twigg)
8. 07:03 AM - Re: New Year Flight (Pete Zut)
9. 07:15 AM - Re: Trutrak AP with Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz (D McFadyean)
10. 08:44 AM - Re: New Year Flight (D McFadyean)
11. 09:16 AM - Re: Trutrak AP with Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz (Alan Burrill)
12. 02:30 PM - Re: Trutrak AP with Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz (David Cripps)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS classic radiator cap pressure? |
Service bulletins sb-912-043-r2 and sb-914-029-r3 issued November 2006 uplifted
the radiator pressure cap to 1.2bar.
It also has the ROTAX part no for the replacement.
I owned a Triumph Sprint motorcycle and found the radiator cap was the same size
and pressure setting although whether you fit that is down to you.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 3 Jan 2023, at 00:05, JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Many, many years ago it was advised to change from 0.9 to 1.2 bar. A friend gave
me a spare, which he bought from an online motorcycle shop, which I think
was intended for a water cooled Triumph? motorbike. Anyway it's smaller than those
found on car radiators.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509842#509842
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS classic radiator cap pressure? |
Ditto most water-cooled BMW motorcycles, at a fraction of the Rotax price.
Duncan McF.
> On 03 January 2023 at 08:17 Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Service bulletins sb-912-043-r2 and sb-914-029-r3 issued November 2006 uplifted
the radiator pressure cap to 1.2bar.
>
> It also has the ROTAX part no for the replacement.
>
> I owned a Triumph Sprint motorcycle and found the radiator cap was the same size
and pressure setting although whether you fit that is down to you.
>
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 3 Jan 2023, at 00:05, JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Many, many years ago it was advised to change from 0.9 to 1.2 bar. A friend
gave me a spare, which he bought from an online motorcycle shop, which I think
was intended for a water cooled Triumph? motorbike. Anyway it's smaller than
those found on car radiators.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509842#509842
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS classic radiator cap pressure? |
Hi Alan,
Thx for those SBs! My engine is circa 1990's, which explains the cap. I
would have expected the canadian rotax support/dealer to have included that
in my SB's needed to be done when I had enquired when I purchased Troy's
classic a few years ago now - I guess they missed it. I am running normal
glycol (not evans).
I am going to give the Triumph T2108005 a try. I am also going to purchase
some sort of pressure tester to ensure my system will have no leaks at 1.2.
Many thanks again!
PeteZ
On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 3:25 AM Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Service bulletins sb-912-043-r2 and sb-914-029-r3 issued November 2006
> uplifted the radiator pressure cap to 1.2bar.
>
> It also has the ROTAX part no for the replacement.
>
> I owned a Triumph Sprint motorcycle and found the radiator cap was the
> same size and pressure setting although whether you fit that is down to y
ou.
>
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 3 Jan 2023, at 00:05, JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> > Many, many years ago it was advised to change from 0.9 to 1.2 bar. A
> friend gave me a spare, which he bought from an online motorcycle shop,
> which I think was intended for a water cooled Triumph? motorbike. Anyway
> it's smaller than those found on car radiators.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509842#509842
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 912ULS classic radiator cap pressure? |
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak AP with Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz |
So, I've slowly been making some progress on this, having mocked up the who
le system out of the aircraft. I have now been able to test it in the worksh
op and yesterday in a car (it needed to be moving to get a track signal). Se
e attached photo. However, I now have a couple more questions/observations!
i) It seems that the Skymap III that I used in these tests works in terms o
f making the servo move and display a track on the Trutrak, so that's progre
ss! However, I note from the Skymap manual that it only gives its GPS info e
very 2 seconds, rather than the once every second that the Trutrak recommend
s to avoid 'wandering'. Peter, in your post you mentioned that you were usin
g a Skymap III - have you ever had a problem with this (assuming your A/P is
the Trutrak Digitrak too)? Alan, is the Garmin 196 that you've mentioned as
suitable, able to be set to give data at the 'once per second' rates, as fr
om the manual it seems it may too default to once every 2 seconds?
ii) I noticed when testing in the car, that when the track that was display
ed in the Trutrak was close to what we were actually tracking (as read from
the Skymap), that the servo was more or less static, and moved in the correc
t direction when there was a small deviation between what was set on the Tru
trak and what we were tracking. However, because our roads are not straight,
there were frequently occasions when the actual track from the Skymap was m
iles away from that set on the Trutrak. In that situation the servo went a b
it crazy and rotated its arm by many more degrees than it could ever do in t
he plane. Is this to be expected in this rather 'offline' mode? I can imagin
e that when the Trutrak senses that its control input is not creating the so
rt of aircraft track change that it had expected, that it just moves the ser
vo even further in order to try to get aircraft to do something?
iii) Clearly my mock-up does not provide any sort of 'force feedback' to th
e servo control arm (ie the arm is completely free to rotate as it likes). I
n an aircraft, would this be taken care of by aerodynamic feedback via the a
ileron torque tube? What happens to the servo when it reaches the full movem
ent that the aileron would allow (the point when the control column hits its
roll stops)?
iv) I can imagine that I wouldn't want the servo ever applying full aileron
to create a turn as that would make for a very violent manoeuvre! I see tha
t there are settings that can be adjusted in the Trutrak set-up menus that c
ontrol activity level and also control maximum torque. What values have peop
le set in theirs? I note that when I have set the recommended value of 12 fo
r the torque, it is almost impossible to override the servo arm when the A/P
is engaged (though I appreciate that with no control column attached the le
verage I can apply to the servo arm with my fingers is very low. I also appr
eciate that normally if one wanted to override the A/P you would disengage i
t first).
v) Lastly (for now!) has anyone fitted physical 'stops' to the servo body t
hat the servo arm would hit to ensure that the servo can never try to move t
he pushrod beyond the point where full aileron is applied?
Apologies for all the questions but I want to make sure it is really workin
g correctly before I contort myself to fit it into the aircraft itself!
Best regards
David
=EF=BBOn 19/11/2022, 16:26, "Alan Burrill" <owner-europa-list-server@matronics
.com <mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of alanb@dpy0
1.co.uk <mailto:alanb@dpy01.co.uk>> wrote:
alanb@dpy01.co.uk>>
Ok I=99ve had a. Ha ce to fly mine with the GPS feed off.
As Duncan says below the display drops to show -|=94|- but maintains the tr
ack last set or you are holding when you switch it on.
The are no heading digits on the display so you will need use your compass/
DI to show that.
If you press the left or right =A4=B5=EF=B8=8F buttons then you can alter the track
the AP is following either left or right and a number appears which if you p
ress the button you can increase or decrease after the AP locks on the numbe
rs disappear and you have the -|=94|- on the display.
Useful if you have a GPS failure but wouldn=99t want that as normal mode of
operation so my suggestion is you need a GPS feed with the right NEMA messa
ge set to get the most out of the AP and the ability for it to follow a trac
k you have programmed in is a bonus.
One word of caution, I have come across some GPS that don=99t put out any m
essages, even the position message for driving a Transponder ADS-B output, u
nless there is a track in the GPS. That was how some of the older version wo
rked, GARMIN 430 and possible the early AVMAP were guilty of that.
Hope that helps.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 10 Nov 2022, at 10:52, D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net <mailto
:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>> wrote:
>
.net <mailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>>
>
> Digitrak only needs basic positional information from the GPS on a regula
r basis. It will use this information to fly the track that has been set on
the Digitrak.
> If a route is programmed in to the GPS, it will fly that too (with differ
ent commands being set at the Digitrak control head to enable this), so long
as the GPS is also putting out the crosstrack error signal; not all of them
do.
>
> Duncan McF.
>
s.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
ion>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Groundspeed anomaly |
At my advanced age, I no longer care so much about asking a question which will
probably embarrass myself. I've been flying for my living firstly as a military
pilot mainly in helicopters and then commercially exclusively in helicopters
for 42 years altogether. I started flying in 1967 and continued for 55 years
until today, while also enjoying my Europa.
About 17,500 hours were spent in large twin auto-pilot equipped helicopters flying
for a couple of hours on each flight over the North Sea in a straight line
to a rig or platform, rotors running for 15ish minutes on a helideck while refuelling
and changing passengers, then flying the reciprocal straight line track
homewards.
Yet almost invariably the ground speed which might have been 170 kts outbound with
a TAS of 145 kts, wouldn't be the expected 120 kts into wind but would usually
be less. This might be accounted for by the requirement to fly at 1000' lower,
but the predicted wind strength should have been less and the ground speed
should have been greater. More often than not the forecast for the wind strength
at different levels would have remained unchanged for a few hours.
Similarly when flying the Europa as I frequently do along a straight nearby coastline
at a constant power setting and altitude and after about 15 minutes, then
immediately turning around to fly the reciprocal at the same power setting
and altitude, instead of getting the same wind component, it's always different
on the GPS. Yesterday I was getting a ground speed 85 kts into a 30 knot headwind,
turned around and only made 130 instead of the hoped-for 140 plus! WHY?
Something tells me that Sod's Law is at work, or that Mother Nature doesn't like
me. If I've missed a key factor in my education as a pilot, it would be interesting
to find out.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509851#509851
Message 7
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Rain on the 1st but a brilliant day ( for Jan in the UK), I got a great flig
ht around Oxfordshire with another EUROPA G-GOLX.
Alan
Motorglider G-GIWT
Sent from my iPad
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New Year Flight |
Nice!
Makes me wanna get going on my glider wings :-)
-PeteZ
On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 9:57 AM Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rain on the 1st but a brilliant day ( for Jan in the UK), I got a great
> flight around Oxfordshire with another EUROPA G-GOLX.
> Alan
> Motorglider G-GIWT
>
> Sent from my iPad
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak AP with Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz |
David,
i). The Trutrak will work on a Europa at 0.5Hz update frequency (i.e. every
2 seconds). Sometimes the AP will hunt gently (yesterday was a case in poi
nt, but there were sites yesterday that were GPS-jamming as well, so that m
ight have been a cause' or possibly I have a too low torque setting than op
timal in order to limit servo overheating). If too many options of output d
ata are requested in the GPS NMEA output setup then there won't be enough t
ime to output all that data within a faster update period; the GPS set will
normally tell you if this is going to be the case.
iii). The servo does not care about torque feedback. The servo will provide
a force (torque) only up to the maximum value that has been preselected.
iv). The Europa needs quite a high torque setting (10 or 12 from memory, wh
ich can on hot days plus a high 'activity' setting result in servo overheat
ing and shutdown if you have a trigear with 'heated'/unventilated fuselage
tunnel and depending where the servo is mounted).
The pilot stick force required to overcome maximum torque will be applied w
ithout even thinking about it and in any case there is a necked brass shear
pin (comprising a modified 6-32 brass instrument mounting screw) in the se
rvo arm that can be easily sheared (even without knowing it, and then you w
onder why the AP is not tracking!). I agreed with LAA to replace this with
a (necked) stainless steel pin in order to provide a little more strength a
nd haven't sheared it since.
I also think that when the servo gets very hot (as above) it's internal vol
tage regulator starts to shut down (as many are designed to do). Again, the
re is no way of knowing when this happens until realisation that the AP is
not tracking!
v). The LAA will insist upon the stops on the servo, although these stops a
re not particularly robust and the set up would be better adjusted so that
the stops never have to resist the pilot's stick inputs.
Otherwise, the Trutrak system and its dynamics work extremely well and can
do a much better job than the pilot, especially in turbulent conditions.
Have you found a setting on your Skymap that allows adjustment of the pre-e
mptive steering sensitivity (or "turn anticipation")?
Duncan McF.
> On 03 January 2023 at 13:10 David Cripps <dpc@knightonweb.com mailto:dpc@
knightonweb.com > wrote:
>
>
> So, I've slowly been making some progress on this, having mocked up t
he whole system out of the aircraft. I have now been able to test it in the
workshop and yesterday in a car (it needed to be moving to get a track sig
nal). See attached photo. However, I now have a couple more questions/obser
vations!
>
> i) It seems that the Skymap III that I used in these tests works in t
erms of making the servo move and display a track on the Trutrak, so that's
progress! However, I note from the Skymap manual that it only gives its GP
S info every 2 seconds, rather than the once every second that the Trutrak
recommends to avoid 'wandering'. Peter, in your post you mentioned that you
were using a Skymap III - have you ever had a problem with this (assuming
your A/P is the Trutrak Digitrak too)? Alan, is the Garmin 196 that you've
mentioned as suitable, able to be set to give data at the 'once per second'
rates, as from the manual it seems it may too default to once every 2 seco
nds?
>
> ii) I noticed when testing in the car, that when the track that was d
isplayed in the Trutrak was close to what we were actually tracking (as rea
d from the Skymap), that the servo was more or less static, and moved in th
e correct direction when there was a small deviation between what was set o
n the Trutrak and what we were tracking. However, because our roads are not
straight, there were frequently occasions when the actual track from the S
kymap was miles away from that set on the Trutrak. In that situation the se
rvo went a bit crazy and rotated its arm by many more degrees than it could
ever do in the plane. Is this to be expected in this rather 'offline' mode
? I can imagine that when the Trutrak senses that its control input is not
creating the sort of aircraft track change that it had expected, that it ju
st moves the servo even further in order to try to get aircraft to do somet
hing?
>
> iii) Clearly my mock-up does not provide any sort of 'force feedback'
to the servo control arm (ie the arm is completely free to rotate as it li
kes). In an aircraft, would this be taken care of by aerodynamic feedback v
ia the aileron torque tube? What happens to the servo when it reaches the f
ull movement that the aileron would allow (the point when the control colum
n hits its roll stops)?
>
> iv) I can imagine that I wouldn't want the servo ever applying full a
ileron to create a turn as that would make for a very violent manoeuvre! I
see that there are settings that can be adjusted in the Trutrak set-up menu
s that control activity level and also control maximum torque. What values
have people set in theirs? I note that when I have set the recommended valu
e of 12 for the torque, it is almost impossible to override the servo arm w
hen the A/P is engaged (though I appreciate that with no control column att
ached the leverage I can apply to the servo arm with my fingers is very low
. I also appreciate that normally if one wanted to override the A/P you wou
ld disengage it first).
>
> v) Lastly (for now!) has anyone fitted physical 'stops' to the servo
body that the servo arm would hit to ensure that the servo can never try to
move the pushrod beyond the point where full aileron is applied?
>
> Apologies for all the questions but I want to make sure it is really
working correctly before I contort myself to fit it into the aircraft itsel
f!
>
> Best regards
>
> David
>
> On 19/11/2022, 16:26, "Alan Burrill" <owner-europa-list-server@matron
ics.com mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-europa-
list-server@matronics.com mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > o
n behalf of alanb@dpy01.co.uk mailto:alanb@dpy01.co.uk <mailto:alanb@dpy01.
co.uk mailto:alanb@dpy01.co.uk >> wrote:
>
>
ilto:alanb@dpy01.co.uk <mailto:alanb@dpy01.co.uk mailto:alanb@dpy01.co.uk >
>
>
>
> Ok I=99ve had a. Ha ce to fly mine with the GPS feed off.
>
>
> As Duncan says below the display drops to show -|=94|- but main
tains the track last set or you are holding when you switch it on.
>
>
> The are no heading digits on the display so you will need use your co
mpass/DI to show that.
>
>
> If you press the left or right =A4=B5=EF=B8=8F buttons then you ca
n alter the track the AP is following either left or right and a number app
ears which if you press the button you can increase or decrease after the A
P locks on the numbers disappear and you have the -|=94|- on the disp
lay.
>
>
> Useful if you have a GPS failure but wouldn=99t want that as no
rmal mode of operation so my suggestion is you need a GPS feed with the rig
ht NEMA message set to get the most out of the AP and the ability for it to
follow a track you have programmed in is a bonus.
>
>
> One word of caution, I have come across some GPS that don=99t p
ut out any messages, even the position message for driving a Transponder AD
S-B output, unless there is a track in the GPS. That was how some of the ol
der version worked, GARMIN 430 and possible the early AVMAP were guilty of
that.
>
>
> Hope that helps.
>
>
> Alan
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > > On 10 Nov 2022, at 10:52, D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk
.net mailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net <mailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net m
ailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net >> wrote:
> >
alktalk.net mailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net <mailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktal
k.net mailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net >>
> >
> > Digitrak only needs basic positional information from the GPS o
n a regular basis. It will use this information to fly the track that has b
een set on the Digitrak.
> > If a route is programmed in to the GPS, it will fly that too (w
ith different commands being set at the Digitrak control head to enable thi
s), so long as the GPS is also putting out the crosstrack error signal; not
all of them do.
> >
> > Duncan McF.
> >
> > >
>
>
> s.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
> ion>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New Year Flight |
It was a nice day with 60 mile vis.
Who's Europa was it to the ESE of Colerne at 12:18 UTC (2 Jan '23)? It was the
first time that Skyecho has given me a meaningful traffic alert, although nothing
recorded on FR24 for either a/c! But at least Skyecho worked air-to-air.
Duncan McF.
> On 03 January 2023 at 14:49 Alan Twigg <alan.twigg775@gmail.com mailto:alan.twigg775@gmail.com > wrote:
>
>
> Rain on the 1st but a brilliant day ( for Jan in the UK), I got a great flight
around Oxfordshire with another EUROPA G-GOLX.
> Alan
> Motorglider G-GIWT
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak AP with Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz |
David
The GPS 196 is only able to output at 0.5Hz i.e. every 2 seconds. I originally
used an AVMap EKP-V and that also did 4800 baud and 2 second update. The AP function
ok but I did notice some interesting features. It would capture a track
by overrunning and then turning back and also on change of direction it would
overrun the turning point and then do an S-Type recapture. Once you got used
to it it was ok but you defiantly didnt want to be close to airspace when using
and expecting it to turn 1 nm from an infringement!
I now use a Garmin 760 and that updates at 1 sec intervals and does pretty much
the same thing as there is no pre-emptive turn message so it does the s-turn
to capture and change direction.
I assume that you are using Mod 75 from the Europa Club Website?
I didnt install mine so cannot truthfully answer questions on install or stops
but certainly all the turns limit to half standard tun rate and I have never had
any problems with full deflections and needing to Take-back-control. That said
i do get occasional dropouts in rough Wx and you dont notice until you see
that you appear to be driving off track.
Id have to investigate the settings for torque etc in my mine, and I need to do
it as they are not recorded anywhere so have no reference if they get electronically
lost. I I get a chance this week Ill let you know.
Alan
> On 3 Jan 2023, at 13:10, David Cripps <dpc@knightonweb.com> wrote:
>
> So, I've slowly been making some progress on this, having mocked up the whole
system out of the aircraft. I have now been able to test it in the workshop and
yesterday in a car (it needed to be moving to get a track signal). See attached
photo. However, I now have a couple more questions/observations!
>
> i) It seems that the Skymap III that I used in these tests works in terms of
making the servo move and display a track on the Trutrak, so that's progress!
However, I note from the Skymap manual that it only gives its GPS info every 2
seconds, rather than the once every second that the Trutrak recommends to avoid
'wandering'. Peter, in your post you mentioned that you were using a Skymap
III - have you ever had a problem with this (assuming your A/P is the Trutrak
Digitrak too)? Alan, is the Garmin 196 that you've mentioned as suitable, able
to be set to give data at the 'once per second' rates, as from the manual it
seems it may too default to once every 2 seconds?
>
> ii) I noticed when testing in the car, that when the track that was displayed
in the Trutrak was close to what we were actually tracking (as read from the
Skymap), that the servo was more or less static, and moved in the correct direction
when there was a small deviation between what was set on the Trutrak and
what we were tracking. However, because our roads are not straight, there were
frequently occasions when the actual track from the Skymap was miles away from
that set on the Trutrak. In that situation the servo went a bit crazy and rotated
its arm by many more degrees than it could ever do in the plane. Is this
to be expected in this rather 'offline' mode? I can imagine that when the Trutrak
senses that its control input is not creating the sort of aircraft track
change that it had expected, that it just moves the servo even further in order
to try to get aircraft to do something?
>
> iii) Clearly my mock-up does not provide any sort of 'force feedback' to the
servo control arm (ie the arm is completely free to rotate as it likes). In an
aircraft, would this be taken care of by aerodynamic feedback via the aileron
torque tube? What happens to the servo when it reaches the full movement that
the aileron would allow (the point when the control column hits its roll stops)?
>
> iv) I can imagine that I wouldn't want the servo ever applying full aileron to
create a turn as that would make for a very violent manoeuvre! I see that there
are settings that can be adjusted in the Trutrak set-up menus that control
activity level and also control maximum torque. What values have people set in
theirs? I note that when I have set the recommended value of 12 for the torque,
it is almost impossible to override the servo arm when the A/P is engaged
(though I appreciate that with no control column attached the leverage I can apply
to the servo arm with my fingers is very low. I also appreciate that normally
if one wanted to override the A/P you would disengage it first).
>
> v) Lastly (for now!) has anyone fitted physical 'stops' to the servo body that
the servo arm would hit to ensure that the servo can never try to move the pushrod
beyond the point where full aileron is applied?
>
> Apologies for all the questions but I want to make sure it is really working
correctly before I contort myself to fit it into the aircraft itself!
>
> Best regards
>
> David
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Trutrak AP with Garmin GPS 18x 5Hz |
Thank you for the comprehensive reply, Duncan, and also for the replies fro
m Alan and Peter. I really appreciate the feedback.
It seems that the Skymap III should work OK for us, despite its 0.5Hz data
refresh rate. A bit of =98hunting=99 shouldn=99t really be a problem. We had
n=99t planned to have it fly a full route and navigate itself around turning
points. I had thought we=99d be manually changing the selected track at eac
h turning point, and then lock the tracking to the new direction required. H
owever, the Skymap III does have a =98Turn Anticipation=99 feature if we sho
uld in the future want it to follow a route, and not overshoot a waypoint. D
o most people use it to follow a full track, and make all the waypoint turns
?
Good to know about the shear pin in the arm as a last resort! Do you have a
ny drawing of the necked stainless pin that you got the LAA to agree to?
The servo that I have came out of an old Europa and didn=99t seem to have a
ny physical stops on the servo arm. It did, however, have the extra alloy
=98clip=99 to secure the screw that attaches the arm to the servo. I=99ve seen
that that clip was an LAA requirement too (see photo). For the physical sto
ps, I did see on another forum something that looked like it would do the jo
b on this servo (may even have been a Trutrak part). Does the LAA specify wh
at these stops should look like or be made of? Should they be set so that th
e servo arm touches them at the same time as the control column reaches its
full deflection (if not, then which stop should =98take priority=99 and be h
it first)? Does anyone have a photo of what the stops look like in their set
up? I imagine them being mounted on the bolts that attach the servo motor to
its mounting frame.
My servo would be mounted under the pax seat per Mod 75, so there is not re
ally any ventilation there. Is it worth adding a little cooling fan to the s
eat locker to keep the air circulating around the servo?
Many thanks for all the input!
David
i). The Trutrak will work on a Europa at 0.5Hz update frequency (i.e. every
2 seconds). Sometimes the AP will hunt gently (yesterday was a case in poin
t, but there were sites yesterday that were GPS-jamming as well, so that mig
ht have been a cause' or possibly I have a too low torque setting than optim
al in order to limit servo overheating). If too many options of output data
are requested in the GPS NMEA output setup then there won't be enough time t
o output all that data within a faster update period; the GPS set will norma
lly tell you if this is going to be the case.
iii). The servo does not care about torque feedback. The servo will provide
a force (torque) only up to the maximum value that has been preselected.
iv). The Europa needs quite a high torque setting (10 or 12 from memory, wh
ich can on hot days plus a high 'activity' setting result in servo overheati
ng and shutdown if you have a trigear with 'heated'/unventilated fuselage tu
nnel and depending where the servo is mounted).
The pilot stick force required to overcome maximum torque will be applied w
ithout even thinking about it and in any case there is a necked brass shear
pin (comprising a modified 6-32 brass instrument mounting screw) in the serv
o arm that can be easily sheared (even without knowing it, and then you wond
er why the AP is not tracking!). I agreed with LAA to replace this with a (n
ecked) stainless steel pin in order to provide a little more strength and ha
ven't sheared it since.
I also think that when the servo gets very hot (as above) it's internal vol
tage regulator starts to shut down (as many are designed to do). Again, ther
e is no way of knowing when this happens until realisation that the AP is no
t tracking!
v). The LAA will insist upon the stops on the servo, although these stops a
re not particularly robust and the set up would be better adjusted so that t
he stops never have to resist the pilot's stick inputs.
Otherwise, the Trutrak system and its dynamics work extremely well and can
do a much better job than the pilot, especially in turbulent conditions.
Have you found a setting on your Skymap that allows adjustment of the pre-e
mptive steering sensitivity (or "turn anticipation")?
Duncan McF.
On 03 January 2023 at 13:10 David Cripps <dpc@knightonweb.com> wrote:
So, I've slowly been making some progress on this, having mocked up the who
le system out of the aircraft. I have now been able to test it in the worksh
op and yesterday in a car (it needed to be moving to get a track signal). Se
e attached photo. However, I now have a couple more questions/observations!
i) It seems that the Skymap III that I used in these tests works in terms o
f making the servo move and display a track on the Trutrak, so that's progre
ss! However, I note from the Skymap manual that it only gives its GPS info e
very 2 seconds, rather than the once every second that the Trutrak recommend
s to avoid 'wandering'. Peter, in your post you mentioned that you were usin
g a Skymap III - have you ever had a problem with this (assuming your A/P is
the Trutrak Digitrak too)? Alan, is the Garmin 196 that you've mentioned as
suitable, able to be set to give data at the 'once per second' rates, as fr
om the manual it seems it may too default to once every 2 seconds?
ii) I noticed when testing in the car, that when the track that was display
ed in the Trutrak was close to what we were actually tracking (as read from
the Skymap), that the servo was more or less static, and moved in the correc
t direction when there was a small deviation between what was set on the Tru
trak and what we were tracking. However, because our roads are not straight,
there were frequently occasions when the actual track from the Skymap was m
iles away from that set on the Trutrak. In that situation the servo went a b
it crazy and rotated its arm by many more degrees than it could ever do in t
he plane. Is this to be expected in this rather 'offline' mode? I can imagin
e that when the Trutrak senses that its control input is not creating the so
rt of aircraft track change that it had expected, that it just moves the ser
vo even further in order to try to get aircraft to do something?
iii) Clearly my mock-up does not provide any sort of 'force feedback' to th
e servo control arm (ie the arm is completely free to rotate as it likes). I
n an aircraft, would this be taken care of by aerodynamic feedback via the a
ileron torque tube? What happens to the servo when it reaches the full movem
ent that the aileron would allow (the point when the control column hits its
roll stops)?
iv) I can imagine that I wouldn't want the servo ever applying full aileron
to create a turn as that would make for a very violent manoeuvre! I see tha
t there are settings that can be adjusted in the Trutrak set-up menus that c
ontrol activity level and also control maximum torque. What values have peop
le set in theirs? I note that when I have set the recommended value of 12 fo
r the torque, it is almost impossible to override the servo arm when the A/P
is engaged (though I appreciate that with no control column attached the le
verage I can apply to the servo arm with my fingers is very low. I also appr
eciate that normally if one wanted to override the A/P you would disengage i
t first).
v) Lastly (for now!) has anyone fitted physical 'stops' to the servo body t
hat the servo arm would hit to ensure that the servo can never try to move t
he pushrod beyond the point where full aileron is applied?
Apologies for all the questions but I want to make sure it is really workin
g correctly before I contort myself to fit it into the aircraft itself!
Best regards
David
On 19/11/2022, 16:26, "Alan Burrill" <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.co
m <mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> on behalf of alanb@dpy01.c
o.uk <mailto:alanb@dpy01.co.uk>> wrote:
alanb@dpy01.co.uk>>
Ok I=99ve had a. Ha ce to fly mine with the GPS feed off.
As Duncan says below the display drops to show -|=94|- but maintains the tr
ack last set or you are holding when you switch it on.
The are no heading digits on the display so you will need use your compass/
DI to show that.
If you press the left or right =A4=B5=EF=B8=8F buttons then you can alter the track
the AP is following either left or right and a number appears which if you p
ress the button you can increase or decrease after the AP locks on the numbe
rs disappear and you have the -|=94|- on the display.
Useful if you have a GPS failure but wouldn=99t want that as normal mode of
operation so my suggestion is you need a GPS feed with the right NEMA messa
ge set to get the most out of the AP and the ability for it to follow a trac
k you have programmed in is a bonus.
One word of caution, I have come across some GPS that don=99t put out any m
essages, even the position message for driving a Transponder ADS-B output, u
nless there is a track in the GPS. That was how some of the older version wo
rked, GARMIN 430 and possible the early AVMAP were guilty of that.
Hope that helps.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
On 10 Nov 2022, at 10:52, D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net <mailto:a
mi-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>> wrote:
<mailto:ami-mcfadyean@talktalk.net>>
Digitrak only needs basic positional information from the GPS on a regular
basis. It will use this information to fly the track that has been set on th
e Digitrak.
If a route is programmed in to the GPS, it will fly that too (with differen
t commands being set at the Digitrak control head to enable this), so long a
s the GPS is also putting out the crosstrack error signal; not all of them d
o.
Duncan McF.
s.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
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