---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/22/23: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:49 AM - Warp Drive Propeller Diameter (arwel pritchard) 2. 06:20 AM - Flap rigging adjustment (JDA) 3. 06:20 AM - Re: Warp Drive Propeller Diameter (Bud Yerly) 4. 06:42 AM - Re: Flap rigging adjustment (Pete) 5. 06:52 AM - Re: Flap rigging adjustment (D McFadyean) 6. 10:18 AM - Re: inner door handle knob positioning (timward) 7. 11:37 AM - Re: inner door handle knob positioning (MIKE CHRISTINE DUANE) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:13 AM PST US From: arwel pritchard Subject: Europa-List: Warp Drive Propeller Diameter Good morning, I have recently checked the pitch on my warp drive prop and as a result found that one blade was significantly different from the other two. I have re-pitched and it seems to run a lot smoother. Looking in the manual, it suggests a 17 deg pitch for a 912ul (62" prop) and a 19 deg pitch for a 912ULS (64") prop. I have a 912 ULS but its fitted with a 62" prop. I have pitched it to 18 deg for now. Question, is having a smaller prop on the ULS a disadvantage and why was a 64" prop specified for the ULS over a 62" one? Thanks Arwel G-BYPM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Flap rigging adjustment From: "JDA" Hello. I suspect my flaps (mono) are slightly miss-rigged in the flaps up position. When flying in the cruise I need just a tad of right stick. When I did a flap and undercarriage retraction in the hangar this morning the right flap looked slightly lower by eyeball which might explain the need for right roll input. I will check properly with an inclinometer, but is this something that can be easily adjusted? Many thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510000#510000 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:40 AM PST US From: Bud Yerly Subject: RE: Europa-List: Warp Drive Propeller Diameter The prop discussion for the 80 horse is a good reminder of mistakes I've ma de. The Rotax 912 is a great engine. Low on power and torque, but reliable and light and as Creighton would say "it'll run on cat pee" although I wouldn 't recommend it as it is hard to collect! 87 RON Octane or regular gas is all it needs, but it does like higher octane premium gas. Even ethanol tha t is not older than say a month is OK provided you can get it started. Matching a prop to it is not difficult but can be costly if one forgets tha t the engine and prop are the powerplant and the prop is a torque converter of sorts. For a fixed pitch Warp Drive, the 80 HP can only easily drive a 62 inch tap er 3 blade Warp. At Custom Flight, we tried the wide chord Warp 3 blade at 64 inch and the e ngine could not pull the prop. (Same issue on the 80HP Jab and VWs. Longe r is not better.) The 62 inch range prop does not appreciably affect speed, in fact it is abo ut a wash with most props. If you want to go faster, prop length is not te rribly critical from 62-67 inches. If you want initial takeoff acceleratio n longer is better, but soon after liftoff, the prop unloads and frankly th e plane is sluggish and cruise speed is lost. Even by lowering the pitch for the 64 inch wide chord Warp, we found we cou ld get 5000 RPM but the low pitch on the prop resulted in terrible accelera tion and disappointing cruise. So, the Warp taper blade set to a pitch that will yield 5000 RPM at WOT wit h premium gasoline was used for years as a good all around prop for the 80H P engine. That was about 17-18 degrees depending on cowl inlet MP, engine compression and fuel octane. If you lower the octane of your fuel to 87 RON (regular grade) Rotax recomm ends setting the pitch to achieve 5200 static RPM at WOT to preclude detona tion. That pitch from experience is between 17 and 19 degrees at a manifold press ure of 26 to 28 inches for most prop brands. If I recall (remember I have CRS aka, can't remember s__t), on a cold air plenum XS style cowl I found a touch over 17.5 degrees is about all I could get for 5200 static WOT comf ortably on regular gas. Most of my testing was done using 100LL so the eng ine octane was not an issue. Performance with the Airmaster tapered Warp Drive AP332 required the tapere d blade for the stock 912 operations. By setting the fine pitch adjustment to 5200 at WOT then locking it in manual mode was an acceptable takeoff an d climb setting but speed at cruise was tolerable at about 125-127 KTAS at 5000-7500 feet and with the constant speed set to cruise setting of 5000, a nd near WOT we got about 134 KTAS. Takeoff using the 5700 WOT was very com fortable with the Airmaster and Warp Drive taper blade on the 80 HP Rotax 9 12. Cold air intake, engine condition, and of course altitude and leaning are a ll factors that affect the fixed pitch prop performance. If you look into new propeller swept tip and narrow chord designs you can get a bit of a boo st over the rather simple Warp, but not much. In testing at Airmaster we f ound the blade difference in speed of the various brands was about 3 knots on most light sport aircraft. The cleaner the airframe design of the aircr aft, the more twist you need in a propeller. Sensenich has a great three b lade ground adjustable for the 912S (100HP) and in testing was a game chang er for that engine. The CT guys love it o the 912S. I never tested one on an 80HP Europa. What I found was the newer blades with modest twist like the Whirlwind and Sensenich blades have a lot less residual thrust in the f lare than the Warp Drive or the Wide Chord Sensenich. For the fixed pitch Warp Drive, I'm afraid that the residual thrust in the mono or trigear is n oticeable when landing. If setting a prop for cruise, I lower the idle RPM to 1600 to try to reduce the float but that affects idle during start and taxi to takeoff due to gearbox and of course carb balance roughness. Just put it to 2000-2500 for warm up and taxi at 1800 -2000 or throttle slightly cracked. As for basic prop maintenance, please do a check at least annually (I do a 25 hour check) on your aircraft to not only service the engine, and check c ompressions and balance of the carbs, but also check the torque of your pro p and do a thorough check of prop blade fixation torque on all ground adjus table and constant speed propellers. Even just using your digital level (or cell phone level) with each blade at the same position ( I use horizontal and cut a piece of wood to set the pr op tip at the same spot but a level will do also) to the horizon will tell you if you are having blade creep. These blades today are tough, but over time glass compresses and moves so the prudent owner operator/maintainer wi ll do a proper check as part of an annual condition inspection IAW the prop manufacturers checklist. At a minimum, during the 5 year inspection, fix the prop dings, repaint if necessary (properly do your coats evenly), and b alance the prop to assure the blade angle, all torques and balance are with in tolerance. I like to pull the prop, hang it from a string (as described in my paper on prop balancing) and get a good static balance. You can=92t dynamically balance a prop without it being very close statically balanced .. Best Regards, Bud Yerly -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of arwel pritchard Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:49 AM Subject: Europa-List: Warp Drive Propeller Diameter m.ltd.uk> Good morning, I have recently checked the pitch on my warp drive prop and as a result found that one blade was significantly different from the other two. I have re-pitched and it seems to run a lot smoother. Looking in the manual, it suggests a 17 deg pitch for a 912ul (62" prop) and a 19 deg pitch for a 912ULS (64") prop. I have a 912 ULS but its fitted with a 62" prop. I have pitched it to 18 deg for now. Question, is having a smaller prop on the ULS a disadvantage and why was a 64" prop specified for the ULS over a 62" one? Thanks Arwel G-BYPM %2Fwww.matronics.com%2FNavigator%3FEuropa-List&data=05%7C01%7C%7C30e7ee44 c0934d89231208dafc66b97f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63809 9815385910590%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3tnRm%2FbZE2XewOFaeOt aSuQWG9aRhf%2F%2B5z29yvu7peA%3D&reserved=0 %2Fforums.matronics.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C30e7ee44c0934d89231208dafc66 b97f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638099815385910590%7CUnkn own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXV CI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jjYeJlZojp%2F2je2YhOGGYnAe0UjnMt2oLEGAxvQ 1RZ0%3D&reserved=0 %2Fwiki.matronics.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C30e7ee44c0934d89231208dafc66b9 7f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638099815385910590%7CUnknow n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI 6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8H2571uSWD69lRspbRsovHEiA5M42NqRlTSATX5VDds %3D&reserved=0 F%2Fmatronics.com%2Fcontribution&data=05%7C01%7C%7C30e7ee44c0934d89231208 dafc66b97f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638099815385910590% 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWw iLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oUL8bPPhPWUdwv422EElxgyrb%2BBoM5a9x AWjEm5kv3E%3D&reserved=0 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:40 AM PST US From: Pete Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap rigging adjustment When flying solo? That would be normal. The passenger balances out a properly rigged plane fwiw. Cheers, PeteZ > On Jan 22, 2023, at 9:26 AM, JDA wrote: > > > Hello. I suspect my flaps (mono) are slightly miss-rigged in the flaps up position. When flying in the cruise I need just a tad of right stick. When I did a flap and undercarriage retraction in the hangar this morning the right flap looked slightly lower by eyeball which might explain the need for right roll input. I will check properly with an inclinometer, but is this something that can be easily adjusted? Many thanks. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510000#510000 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:42 AM PST US From: D McFadyean Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap rigging adjustment The asymmetry of the flap operating (cross) tube means that the flaps will be asymmetrical. Unless they are configured to come up hard against some flap stops (in which case a degree or so of range is then sacrificed). Duncan McF. > On 22 January 2023 at 14:42 Pete wrote: > > > > When flying solo? That would be normal. The passenger balances out a properly rigged plane fwiw. > > Cheers, > PeteZ > > > On Jan 22, 2023, at 9:26 AM, JDA wrote: > > > > > > Hello. I suspect my flaps (mono) are slightly miss-rigged in the flaps up position. When flying in the cruise I need just a tad of right stick. When I did a flap and undercarriage retraction in the hangar this morning the right flap looked slightly lower by eyeball which might explain the need for right roll input. I will check properly with an inclinometer, but is this something that can be easily adjusted? Many thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510000#510000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:18:11 AM PST US From: timward Subject: Re: Europa-List: inner door handle knob positioning =EF=BBHi Rowland, I have the door knob on the inside face. The safety guard is designed to cov er the knob in case of inadvertent opening. Made from composite. Some builde rs I have seen don=99t have a door knob at all. Their safety guard is a simple aluminium plate fixed to the window frame covering the handle when d oor is closed. I have had no problems with my design and a knob is helpful f or opening the door and holding on to it in windy conditions. Cheers, Tim Sent from my iPad Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz 021 0640221 > On 22/01/2023, at 8:49 AM, Rowland_Carson wrote: n@gmail.com> > > I tried to post this by e-mail but it didn't show up, so am trying again b y the website. Have had some feedback via a posting on the Club WhatsApp gro up but would welcome any other opinions. > > I=99ve reached the stage of making knobs for the inner door handles a nd am puzzled about the advice in the manual. It calls for the inside handle to be cranked inwards so that a knob can be fitted on the outboard face. Th at seem to be an invitation for scratches on the Perspex from fingernails, r ings, watches etc. > > Is there any reason the knob cannot be fitted on the inner face of the han dle, thus keeping the operating hand and its jewellery further from the deli cate Perspex? I can see that before the advent of the safety guard, having a knob on the inner face that could be accidentally caught by a sleeve etc is a BAD THING; but the safety guard pretty much eliminates that possibility. > > Now that I=99ve fitted the Perspex in the doors, I can see how much c learance there is between the handle and the glazing. As it=99s alread y quite close to the Perspex, I=99d be happy to leave the handle strai ght and fit a small knob on the inner face. > > Any comments? > > in friendship > > Rowland > kit 435, G-RODO > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509997#509997 > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:37:16 AM PST US From: MIKE CHRISTINE DUANE Subject: Re: Europa-List: inner door handle knob positioning I also installed a knob on the inside of the operating arm so as to not scra tch up the Perspex. I simply used a wooden drawer pull knob that I painted t o match the interior. I also installed a simple safety guard made of aluminu m plate screwed to the door frame and also painted to match. When closed, th e arm and knob tuck nicely away behind the guard and the only way to open th e door is to purposely stick your finger behind the guard and pull up on the handle. No accidental or inadvertent opening in flight. Mike Duane N377EA EUROPA XS Conventional Gear Chandler, Arizona, USA Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 22, 2023, at 9:18 AM, timward wrote: > > =EF=BB > =EF=BBHi Rowland, > I have the door knob on the inside face. The safety guard is designed to c over the knob in case of inadvertent opening. Made from composite. Some buil ders I have seen don=99t have a door knob at all. Their safety guard i s a simple aluminium plate fixed to the window frame covering the handle whe n door is closed. I have had no problems with my design and a knob is helpfu l for opening the door and holding on to it in windy conditions. > Cheers, Tim > > Sent from my iPad > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street, > Fendalton, > Christchurch, 8052 > New Zealand. > ward.t@xtra.co.nz > 021 0640221 > >>> On 22/01/2023, at 8:49 AM, Rowland_Carson wrot e: >>> on@gmail.com> >> >> I tried to post this by e-mail but it didn't show up, so am trying again b y the website. Have had some feedback via a posting on the Club WhatsApp gro up but would welcome any other opinions. >> >> I=99ve reached the stage of making knobs for the inner door handles and am puzzled about the advice in the manual. It calls for the inside hand le to be cranked inwards so that a knob can be fitted on the outboard face. T hat seem to be an invitation for scratches on the Perspex from fingernails, r ings, watches etc. >> >> Is there any reason the knob cannot be fitted on the inner face of the ha ndle, thus keeping the operating hand and its jewellery further from the del icate Perspex? I can see that before the advent of the safety guard, having a knob on the inner face that could be accidentally caught by a sleeve etc is a BAD THING; but the safety guard pretty much eliminates that possibility. >> >> Now that I=99ve fitted the Perspex in the doors, I can see how much clearance there is between the handle and the glazing. As it=99s alre ady quite close to the Perspex, I=99d be happy to leave the handle str aight and fit a small knob on the inner face. >> >> Any comments? >> >> in friendship >> >> Rowland >> kit 435, G-RODO >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=509997#509997 >> >> >> >> >> <======================== == - The Europa-List Ema============= ========================== =============bsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> <======================== ========================== ========================== ======================= >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.