Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! (Area-51)
2. 07:00 AM - Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! (n7188u)
3. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! (Pete)
4. 07:35 AM - Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! (n7188u)
5. 07:51 AM - Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! (n7188u)
6. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! (Pete)
7. 08:23 AM - Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! (n7188u)
8. 11:06 AM - What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 (Erich Trombley)
9. 01:39 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 (n7188u)
10. 03:59 PM - Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! (Area-51)
11. 04:02 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 (Area-51)
12. 04:31 PM - Re: Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 (Pete Zut)
13. 04:53 PM - Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 (Area-51)
14. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 (Pete)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! |
Experiments and discoveries are moving forward over the past few days with some
entertaining results.
A rudimentary study of some baffle concepts were drafted and run through the simulator;
the variations happened by accident due to forgetting to half the density
consumption to rpm speed; so the elongated porting was developed and employed
on these over calculated equations of x2 actual rpm; once recalibrated the
results were pleasing on all the variations.
Flow analysis through the air box was applied at 6000, 5500, 5000, 4000 rpm at
1013.25 atmosphere at 20.05C. Filtering for Static Pressure primarily, and Acoustic
Energy and Flow Path as added features.
Red represents Ambient Atmospheric Pressure which indicates zero restriction to
air flow within the airbox at engine rpm.
Testing revealed the carburettor porting tubes are slightly undersized causing
a pressure drop in these regions at engine speeds above 4000rpm on normally aspirated
setups. At 6000rpm the pressure drop equates to approx 600' altitude increase,
and at 5500 rpm approx 300' altitude increase, and at 5000rpm around
80' altitude increase.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510475#510475
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/b4b6c3a5_1516_4c61_9caa_a16ea86d12b7_114.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/5e3d3071_f86a_4ce3_96bf_dbf994ee29de_972.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/79860508_7c0c_4c0d_8f2a_201fdb9d1d25_380.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dabb99f2_8fec_485f_a172_8d33b4064569_164.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/3c98c93a_9816_4f2f_a91c_abfd458f6483_210.jpeg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/532f6ff2_632a_4281_a486_0815710d93d5_189.jpeg
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! |
Very interesting conversation guys. Part of what makes owning an Europa fun is
this type of interaction.
I have not been able to fly the airplane enough to reach a conclusion on this most
recent mod to my plane. I only flew around 20 minutes last Friday, was windy
and bumpy so had other worries in my mind. Tomorrow AM looks nice so will do
a short local before work but really want to do a longer x-country to be able
to provide an objective conclusion (on the subject of fatigue).
But I hate to report that based on that short flight last Friday I did not find
that the mod made as large a difference as I was hoping for based on A51's encouraging
results. But again, the jury is still out.
I think I do detect a slight difference. Maybe a little softer on the high frequency.
And I think it is worth keeping the change. But I was hoping for more.
Will report again after I get a few longer flights in.
Please do keep in mind that I have a paint only interior and, as Bud indicated,
I too agree this is a good reason why my Europa is loud.
Clive, I still need to go through all the tech discussion in detail (I am at work
dealing with other tech discussions) but I did buy a new Bose A 20 when I started
flying my Europa. It is incredibly effective at cutting all low frequency
noise (prop) but all the high frequency ones seem to go right through making
it VERY annoying. In fact, I sometimes switch to my non-ANR headsets and find
the low frequency drone much more pleasant (but yes, it is louder).
So I will continue evaluating and will provide some final thoughts later on. And
all feedback on this subject is greatly appreciated.
I think that if I try something in the near future it will be lighter noise insulation
on the metal firewall, some quick prototype level interior paneling to
see if I can see a change before commuting to that route, and I really wanted
to try a wheel pant I have for the mono, maybe in hopes of deflecting air away
from the wheel well and reducing turbulence in that area.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510476#510476
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! |
Fwiw,
Classic, mono, no fairings, panted interior, 912s, stock exhaust, factory cold
air intake plenum.
My biggliest bang was the softer lords swapout. Before with the stock rubbers the
gear whine and harsh compression pulses excited the cabin surfaces and the
engine was the most overbearing noise. Post rubbers, the gear whine is below
the engine, and the engine is below the 130mph cruise air noise. e-props unique
sound signature is more noticable than the WDs when pulling throttle back. I
doubt i would have heard that with the stock mounts. High freq engine noise is
far below the wind noise. Bose do a fantastic job now.
E-props reduced the large start stop excursions (and obvious gearbox dogging) experienced
with the WD, nullifying my previously required exhaust and oil reservoir
clearancing efforts with the softer lords.
Unhappy with bose high freq atten? Try the lightspeeds for comparison lol.
I also get a noticeable buffet from my unfared mono wheel, but havent got around
to fairing it..watching with interest if you do.
Cheers,
PeteZ
> On Mar 22, 2023, at 10:09 AM, n7188u <chmgarb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Very interesting conversation guys. Part of what makes owning an Europa fun is
this type of interaction.
>
> I have not been able to fly the airplane enough to reach a conclusion on this
most recent mod to my plane. I only flew around 20 minutes last Friday, was windy
and bumpy so had other worries in my mind. Tomorrow AM looks nice so will
do a short local before work but really want to do a longer x-country to be able
to provide an objective conclusion (on the subject of fatigue).
>
> But I hate to report that based on that short flight last Friday I did not find
that the mod made as large a difference as I was hoping for based on A51's
encouraging results. But again, the jury is still out.
>
> I think I do detect a slight difference. Maybe a little softer on the high frequency.
And I think it is worth keeping the change. But I was hoping for more.
Will report again after I get a few longer flights in.
>
> Please do keep in mind that I have a paint only interior and, as Bud indicated,
I too agree this is a good reason why my Europa is loud.
>
> Clive, I still need to go through all the tech discussion in detail (I am at
work dealing with other tech discussions) but I did buy a new Bose A 20 when I
started flying my Europa. It is incredibly effective at cutting all low frequency
noise (prop) but all the high frequency ones seem to go right through making
it VERY annoying. In fact, I sometimes switch to my non-ANR headsets and find
the low frequency drone much more pleasant (but yes, it is louder).
>
> So I will continue evaluating and will provide some final thoughts later on.
And all feedback on this subject is greatly appreciated.
>
> I think that if I try something in the near future it will be lighter noise insulation
on the metal firewall, some quick prototype level interior paneling
to see if I can see a change before commuting to that route, and I really wanted
to try a wheel pant I have for the mono, maybe in hopes of deflecting air away
from the wheel well and reducing turbulence in that area.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510476#510476
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! |
Interesting Pete,
Since I will probably be removing the engine for painting in the next couple of
weeks, does anyone have any dimensions for the new spacers needed to retrofit
the Lord mounts? I remember Erich telling me a while back that getting the engine
to rest in the correct position took a bit of effort.
I could give this a try.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510478#510478
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! |
to add one interesting anecdote regarding the noise in my Europa, people tell be
that when I fly overhead to enter the pattern (midfield downwind entry is common
at my airport due to a Class C at one end of the field) my airplane makes
no sound. They can only hear what they think is just wind noise and makes them
think it is an electric airplane :) Good job CKT.
But inside .... another story. Although I once took a friend up for a ride and
he thought I was crazy and that the airplane was not that noisy inside. But he
has an F1 Rocket so he may not be a good judge of what a small Rotax powered
composite airplane should sound like :)
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510479#510479
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! |
Thanks Pete. Good info.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510481#510481
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 |
The wife and I flew in our Europa to Lake Havasu, AZ (KHII) for lunch with a
couple of friends. The weather was just spectacular which was a welcome ch
ange.
This spring as been cold, wet and windy. Certainly, not your typical Las Ve
gas weather.
The wife snapped this photo as we starting our decent into our home field.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 |
Weather here in FL has been a bit wonky. Nice during the week and then not so good
on the weekends when I can fly. I did Area-51 mod of insulating the intake
air box with sound deadening material (enjoyed being in project mode) and waiting
for weather to improve a little to fly more.
I am getting ready to paint the airplane. I have bought a good spray gun, a forced
air respirator system, got the paint and I am rebuilding my wood frame spray
booth. I am going to wait until after Sun'n Fun next week, in case the weather
is awesome and decide to fly the airplane there, to start disassembly and
painting. I plan to take my time to paint and implement a few changes on the airplane.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510483#510483
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: the Obsidian Files - So Much Noise!!! |
Choosing not to fly today; instead thought toward identifying drumming areas of
the fuselage; details attached along with required acoustic patch sizes. Some
areas of hatches and footwell floor are only accessible for treating during building;
footwell floor void could probably be filled with expander foam though.
Total added mass can be estimated from sizings. Sizings can be reduced 20%
and still remain affective.
Mid to forward L/R of centre upper cowl - 4"x10"
Mid to forward L/R of centre lower cowl - 3"x12"
Naca vent slider door rattle
Behind naca vent area to L/E of wing - 6"x10"
Fuselage, forward foot well floor step area - 4"x4"
Forward hatch fuselage area - 2"x8"
Mid centre line to rear hatch hinge - 2"x14"
Vert stab rib to fuselage fillet - 4"x30"
Vert stab trim bar port area - 4"x8" upper 2"x8" lower
Fuselage upper lower seam, fuel filler to L/E of h'stab - 3"x50"
Fuselage upper 1/8 quadrant, fuel filler to L/E of h'stab - 4"x45"
Fuselage belly, flap hinge covers to static port - 6"x40"
Hatches, lower frame 1"x 12" and rear corner sections 6"x8"x8" triangle
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510484#510484
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 |
We have been lucky here with conditions past couple of weeks; waiting for winter
and cold thick air to arrive...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510485#510485
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 |
It=99s been a fantastic winter season up here in Canuckstan! Lots of
snow,
but every week has essentially been flyable. I=99ve been getting in
an
average of about 15hrs/mnth of local zenning-out. Love winter, gooey
smooth air, and lotsa white pillow emerge landing spots.
Spring has sprung tho, so expecting lotsa rainy weather soon.
PeteZ
On Mar 22, 2023, at 7:14 PM, Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com> wrote:
gmail.com
>
We have been lucky here with conditions past couple of weeks; waiting for
winter and cold thick air to arrive...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510485#510485
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 |
Magic... what temp is it inside the cockpit during a flight like that? I had 33C
on my return leg the other day..
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510487#510487
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do with your Europa this week 19/03/23 |
Always toasty.especially when sunny. I normally have to mix in cold air when its
over -10c.
PeteZ
> On Mar 22, 2023, at 7:58 PM, Area-51 <goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Magic... what temp is it inside the cockpit during a flight like that? I had
33C on my return leg the other day..
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510487#510487
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|