Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:44 AM - Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (n7188u)
2. 04:54 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (Steve Ivell)
3. 05:59 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (Monoman)
4. 08:03 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (D McFadyean)
5. 08:24 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (n7188u)
6. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (Steve Ivell)
7. 09:00 AM - Re: Finishing tips (n7188u)
8. 09:31 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (Paul M 383)
9. 10:20 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (n7188u)
10. 05:52 PM - Re: Europa Sun 'n Fun Forum and gatherings. (budyerly@msn.com)
11. 06:58 PM - Re: Europa Sun 'n Fun Forum and gatherings. (n7188u)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 |
Hi,
As I mentioned on a previous message, I am considering the cockpit widening mod
(67). Just checkng to make sure it makes sense since it involves some cutting
and will require me to touch up the interior paint which is quite nice right
now.
My concern is that the mod involves only a partial widening of the lower door edge.
It seems that if you do this your arm will still touch this remaining edge
of the door. I guess that yes, that remaining width of the door is further outboard
than the fuselage door flange so some gain in overall width is achieved.
Im looking for some comments regarding this mod. Impression? Are you happy or not
if you did it? Is it worth it?
I once asked Bud and he gave his nod of approval which to me means a lot. Just
wanted to see what other people that have done it to their airplanes thought.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510536#510536
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| Subject: | Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 |
Hi Chris
I have done the width mod and to be honest it's a waste of time and effort. It
buys you no more than 15mm on either side and requires you to cut out a chunk
of the fuselage door lip and well as doing the same with the door, as well as
reworking the door locking mechanism. I'd leave it personally.
Kind Regards
Steve Ivell
Mob: 07971 128842
E-mail: steveivell@pestproof.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of n7188u
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 12:44 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67
Hi,
As I mentioned on a previous message, I am considering the cockpit widening mod
(67). Just checkng to make sure it makes sense since it involves some cutting
and will require me to touch up the interior paint which is quite nice right
now.
My concern is that the mod involves only a partial widening of the lower door edge.
It seems that if you do this your arm will still touch this remaining edge
of the door. I guess that yes, that remaining width of the door is further outboard
than the fuselage door flange so some gain in overall width is achieved.
Im looking for some comments regarding this mod. Impression? Are you happy or not
if you did it? Is it worth it?
I once asked Bud and he gave his nod of approval which to me means a lot. Just
wanted to see what other people that have done it to their airplanes thought.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510536#510536
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 |
Chris, my aircraft has this mod already done so I didn't know any better but recently
I rode in one without it and I can say that I noticed the difference. It
wasn't a remarkable difference but was noticeable.
I suppose that this comment just muddies the waters for you as I'm sure you will
get the opposite view.
Why don't you try to sit in one that has the mod first and decide then?
Cheers
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510538#510538
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| Subject: | Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 |
The downward curvature of the canopy prevents sitting close to the door and forces
the occupant towards the centreline of the aircraft.
So, providing hip space in the centre tunnel is more effective that arm/shoulder
space at the door.
However, if you are sitting low with good head clearance then it can make a difference,
if only to make it less noticeable that the door cill is sticking in
to your arm.
Duncan McF.
> On 28 March 2023 at 12:54 Steve Ivell <SteveIvell@pestproof.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Chris
>
> I have done the width mod and to be honest it's a waste of time and effort. It
buys you no more than 15mm on either side and requires you to cut out a chunk
of the fuselage door lip and well as doing the same with the door, as well as
reworking the door locking mechanism. I'd leave it personally.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Steve Ivell
> Mob: 07971 128842
> E-mail: steveivell@pestproof.co.uk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of n7188u
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 12:44 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67
>
>
> Hi,
>
> As I mentioned on a previous message, I am considering the cockpit widening mod
(67). Just checkng to make sure it makes sense since it involves some cutting
and will require me to touch up the interior paint which is quite nice right
now.
>
> My concern is that the mod involves only a partial widening of the lower door
edge. It seems that if you do this your arm will still touch this remaining edge
of the door. I guess that yes, that remaining width of the door is further
outboard than the fuselage door flange so some gain in overall width is achieved.
>
> Im looking for some comments regarding this mod. Impression? Are you happy or
not if you did it? Is it worth it?
>
> I once asked Bud and he gave his nod of approval which to me means a lot. Just
wanted to see what other people that have done it to their airplanes thought.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510536#510536
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 |
Hi guys,
Thanks for the feedback. Very much appreciated. I still have some time before I
need to commit because I will leave the painting of the fuselage to last.
Although it doesn't look hard to do I agree it is quite a bit of work. Particularly
considering I already have the interior painted and would require sanding
off the paint in the areas needed, and then paint it again.
I will say that at the last flight I did the contact of my arm against the door
sill was bothering me a little. I also think that the continuous slight leaning
to the side doesn't add to comfort. But as Duncan said, the head is also an
issue that is not addressed my this modification.
And I am not really a wide person. I wonder what demographics Europa had in mind
when they designed our beloved airplanes [Rolling Eyes]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510540#510540
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| Subject: | Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 |
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Finishing tips |
One personal observation regarding finishing:
I thought this process was going to be painful, but actually found it to be not
as bad as I thought it would. I honestly did not read the entire procedure posted
here but I will briefly say what I did.
1.- Clean and carefully scuff sand the fiberglass or gelcoat.
2.- Using the the fishing line technique, apply a nice think coat of expancell
plus West Systems 105. What helped a lot was to use an epoxy pump and a sensitive
weight scale to exactly measure the ratio of epoxy and expancell. Keeping
the mixture consistent between mixes is key.
3.- Apply the mix using a dry wall spreader modified with an angle epoxied at
the width of the application end. This is also key to keep the spreader from bending
and creating a concave surface.
4.- Wait until the applied coat starts to gel, remove the fishing line, fill the
groves left by the line.
5.- Using Dura-Block sanding blocks and very coarse sandpaper sand expancell coat
until no depressions are observed. Most of the time a single pass of expancell
coat was enough. If a few voids are present fix those.
6.- Now the cool part, I used a modified epoxy 2K filling primer made by 5-Star
and rolled it on using a small foam roller. Push hard and fill as many pinholes
as you can.
7.- Once cured, apply coat of Dry Guide Coat (I used Mirka brand).
8.- Sand this coat until all of the guidecoat is gone. Don't worry if this results
in a good part of the 5-Start 2K to be gone.
9.- Spray one heavy coat of SPI (Southern Polyurethanes) white Epoxy primer. Welcome
to pinhole land since this primer will make them show like craters in the
moon (it's actually called "cratering" by the people that make the prime which
is very prone to doing this).
9.- Now, without sanding the epoxy primer but before 7 days after applying it,
use thin 3M polyester glaze to fill every pin hole, one by one. This is tedious
but the fantastic quality of the 3M glaze makes the job much easier. The 7
day window is important since the epoxy primer doesn't need to be sanded if the
glaze and subsequent 2K is applied within this time frame.
10.- Sand the pinholes. This part is indeed tedious because the polyester putty
will stick to the sandpaper. The solution was to use a scrap piece of fiberglass
and use it to scrape the glaze of the sandpaper. Use only high quality 3M
sanding paper. The cheaper red one seems to work better though and the glaze sticks
less.
11.- Spray a heavy coat of SPI grey regular 2K primer.
12.- If any small pinholes show I used red one part lacquer glaze to fill them.
Quicker and easier for just a few of them.
13.- Guide coat, sand until the white shows and almost all grey 2K is gone. the
guide coat will show the low spots. Here you need to gage what fillers to use
to reach perfection. A little more 2K will fill shallow areas but it is a little
heavier. Still I used it. Some polyester 2K glaze is also good. I don't think
I had anything deep enough to go to expancell. If you do you have to do all
the stuff stated above on that area.
14.- Finally, a coat of SPI white epoxy and you can spray the paint (no sanding
needed if within 7 days). Or I flew it on primer for 2 years. The stuff still
looks like the day it was applied and no issues with bugs or deterioration. The
SPI primer is semi gloss so it looks pretty good too.
And I used a forced air respiration system and a dust collector from Harbor Freight.
I think it is a must.
I can provide more detail on the sandpaper used, 3M glaze PN, 5 Star modified epoxy
primer, SPI stuff but will have to collect the info. I can also put together
a few pictures.
I hope I didn't bore anyone with this long post.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510542#510542
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 |
"I wonder what demographics Europa had in mind when they designed our beloved airplanes"
Ivan Shaw is 6' 2" and not slim (I'd say that to his face, so no worries :-D)
https://www.theeuropaclub.org/the-europa/creator-ivan-shaw
HTH
Paul
G-PLPM
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510543#510543
Attachments:
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 |
Yikes, that is tight (sorry Ivan, you know we love you the same) :)
I guess he really wanted to go fast. Mission accomplished on that front.
Good idea on the foam piece. Will try that first.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510544#510544
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Sun 'n Fun Forum and gatherings. |
First Day of Sun 'n Fun.
It was wildly busy doing volunteer work. I went through the LSA and Spot Landing
contest. My old friend and EAA member John Moody (The father of Ultralights)
porpoised his little ultralight yesterday and luckily at 80+ he got a scratch
on his arm and cracked his helmet when he hit hard on the nose and the plane
flipped upside down (it is a biplane) and we got him medical attention and he
is fine. It P.O.ed his wife as he broke his pledge to stop flying his Easy
Riser. So I didn't see much and after running errands also, we got home had supper
and I'm vegging out.
Tomorrow the front comes through and we are doing the Europa Seminar at 1 PM still
showing at CFAA-05 on the second floor room 206 so watch the signs.
Fly/Drive Safe and see you there.
Bud Yerly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510548#510548
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Sun 'n Fun Forum and gatherings. |
Im glad to hear John is ok. I always enjoyed watching his show.
Now it seems Ill go to SnF on Saturday. Not a fan of going that day but my son
has school obligations and he wants to come.
We would like to see the night show and pitch a tent to sleep then head back home
on Sunday. Ill try to fly the Europa but forecast calls for a windy day on
Sunday. Will see as the day nears. Could always take the LongEZ (that plane doesnt
mind windy days but cant take anything in it)
Anyone there with an Europa on Saturday?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510549#510549
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