---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/28/23: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:44 AM - Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (n7188u) 2. 04:54 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (Steve Ivell) 3. 05:59 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (Monoman) 4. 08:03 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (D McFadyean) 5. 08:24 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (n7188u) 6. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (Steve Ivell) 7. 09:00 AM - Re: Finishing tips (n7188u) 8. 09:31 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (Paul M 383) 9. 10:20 AM - Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 (n7188u) 10. 05:52 PM - Re: Europa Sun 'n Fun Forum and gatherings. (budyerly@msn.com) 11. 06:58 PM - Re: Europa Sun 'n Fun Forum and gatherings. (n7188u) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:09 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 From: "n7188u" Hi, As I mentioned on a previous message, I am considering the cockpit widening mod (67). Just checkng to make sure it makes sense since it involves some cutting and will require me to touch up the interior paint which is quite nice right now. My concern is that the mod involves only a partial widening of the lower door edge. It seems that if you do this your arm will still touch this remaining edge of the door. I guess that yes, that remaining width of the door is further outboard than the fuselage door flange so some gain in overall width is achieved. Im looking for some comments regarding this mod. Impression? Are you happy or not if you did it? Is it worth it? I once asked Bud and he gave his nod of approval which to me means a lot. Just wanted to see what other people that have done it to their airplanes thought. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510536#510536 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:45 AM PST US From: Steve Ivell Subject: RE: Europa-List: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 Hi Chris I have done the width mod and to be honest it's a waste of time and effort. It buys you no more than 15mm on either side and requires you to cut out a chunk of the fuselage door lip and well as doing the same with the door, as well as reworking the door locking mechanism. I'd leave it personally. Kind Regards Steve Ivell Mob: 07971 128842 E-mail: steveivell@pestproof.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of n7188u Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 12:44 PM Subject: Europa-List: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 Hi, As I mentioned on a previous message, I am considering the cockpit widening mod (67). Just checkng to make sure it makes sense since it involves some cutting and will require me to touch up the interior paint which is quite nice right now. My concern is that the mod involves only a partial widening of the lower door edge. It seems that if you do this your arm will still touch this remaining edge of the door. I guess that yes, that remaining width of the door is further outboard than the fuselage door flange so some gain in overall width is achieved. Im looking for some comments regarding this mod. Impression? Are you happy or not if you did it? Is it worth it? I once asked Bud and he gave his nod of approval which to me means a lot. Just wanted to see what other people that have done it to their airplanes thought. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510536#510536 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:03 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 From: "Monoman" Chris, my aircraft has this mod already done so I didn't know any better but recently I rode in one without it and I can say that I noticed the difference. It wasn't a remarkable difference but was noticeable. I suppose that this comment just muddies the waters for you as I'm sure you will get the opposite view. Why don't you try to sit in one that has the mod first and decide then? Cheers Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510538#510538 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:53 AM PST US From: D McFadyean Subject: RE: Europa-List: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 The downward curvature of the canopy prevents sitting close to the door and forces the occupant towards the centreline of the aircraft. So, providing hip space in the centre tunnel is more effective that arm/shoulder space at the door. However, if you are sitting low with good head clearance then it can make a difference, if only to make it less noticeable that the door cill is sticking in to your arm. Duncan McF. > On 28 March 2023 at 12:54 Steve Ivell wrote: > > > > Hi Chris > > I have done the width mod and to be honest it's a waste of time and effort. It buys you no more than 15mm on either side and requires you to cut out a chunk of the fuselage door lip and well as doing the same with the door, as well as reworking the door locking mechanism. I'd leave it personally. > > Kind Regards > > Steve Ivell > Mob: 07971 128842 > E-mail: steveivell@pestproof.co.uk > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com On Behalf Of n7188u > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 12:44 PM > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 > > > Hi, > > As I mentioned on a previous message, I am considering the cockpit widening mod (67). Just checkng to make sure it makes sense since it involves some cutting and will require me to touch up the interior paint which is quite nice right now. > > My concern is that the mod involves only a partial widening of the lower door edge. It seems that if you do this your arm will still touch this remaining edge of the door. I guess that yes, that remaining width of the door is further outboard than the fuselage door flange so some gain in overall width is achieved. > > Im looking for some comments regarding this mod. Impression? Are you happy or not if you did it? Is it worth it? > > I once asked Bud and he gave his nod of approval which to me means a lot. Just wanted to see what other people that have done it to their airplanes thought. > > Chris > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510536#510536 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:07 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 From: "n7188u" Hi guys, Thanks for the feedback. Very much appreciated. I still have some time before I need to commit because I will leave the painting of the fuselage to last. Although it doesn't look hard to do I agree it is quite a bit of work. Particularly considering I already have the interior painted and would require sanding off the paint in the areas needed, and then paint it again. I will say that at the last flight I did the contact of my arm against the door sill was bothering me a little. I also think that the continuous slight leaning to the side doesn't add to comfort. But as Duncan said, the head is also an issue that is not addressed my this modification. And I am not really a wide person. I wonder what demographics Europa had in mind when they designed our beloved airplanes [Rolling Eyes] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510540#510540 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:49 AM PST US From: Steve Ivell Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 V2UgZGlkIHRoZSBoZWlnaHQgbW9kIGFzIHdlbGwgd2hpY2ggaXMgbWFqb3Igc3VyZ2VyeSBhbmQg Y2FuJ3QgYmUgZG9uZSByZXRyb3NwZWN0aXZlbHkuDQpBIHNpbXBsZXIgc29sdXRpb24gdG8gdGhl IHdpZHRoIG1vZCB3b3VsZCBiZSB0byBmYXNoaW9uIGEgcGllY2Ugb2YgZm9hbSB0byBzaXQgdW5k ZXIgdGhlIGRvb3IgbGlwIHRvIHNtb290aCB0aGUgY29udG91ciBhcyB0aGUgbGlwIGlzIHF1aXRl IHByb25vdW5jZWQgd2l0aG91dCB0aGUgd2lkdGggbW9kLi4uLi4gbXVjaCBlYXNpZXIuIPCfmIEN Cg0KS2luZCBSZWdhcmRzDQoNClN0ZXZlIEl2ZWxsDQpNYW5hZ2luZyBEaXJlY3Rvcg0KUGVzdHBy b29mIEx0ZC4NCjA3OTcxIDEyODg0Mg0Kc3RldmVpdmVsbEBwZXN0cHJvb2YuY28udWsNCl9fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpGcm9tOiBvd25lci1ldXJvcGEtbGlzdC1zZXJ2 ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbSA8b3duZXItZXVyb3BhLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+ IG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBuNzE4OHUgPGNobWdhcmJAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwg TWFyY2ggMjgsIDIwMjMgNDoyMzo0NyBQTQ0KVG86IGV1cm9wYS1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20g PGV1cm9wYS1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBFdXJvcGEtTGlzdDogUmU6IFdp ZGVuaW5nIHRoZSBjb2NrcGl0IC0gTW9kIDY3DQoNCi0tPiBFdXJvcGEtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBv c3RlZCBieTogIm43MTg4dSIgPGNobWdhcmJAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KDQpIaSBndXlzLA0KDQpUaGFu a3MgZm9yIHRoZSBmZWVkYmFjay4gVmVyeSBtdWNoIGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkLiBJIHN0aWxsIGhhdmUg c29tZSB0aW1lIGJlZm9yZSBJIG5lZWQgdG8gY29tbWl0IGJlY2F1c2UgSSB3aWxsIGxlYXZlIHRo ZSBwYWludGluZyBvZiB0aGUgZnVzZWxhZ2UgdG8gbGFzdC4NCg0KQWx0aG91Z2ggaXQgZG9lc24n dCBsb29rIGhhcmQgdG8gZG8gSSBhZ3JlZSBpdCBpcyBxdWl0ZSBhIGJpdCBvZiB3b3JrLiBQYXJ0 aWN1bGFybHkgY29uc2lkZXJpbmcgSSBhbHJlYWR5IGhhdmUgdGhlIGludGVyaW9yIHBhaW50ZWQg YW5kIHdvdWxkIHJlcXVpcmUgc2FuZGluZyBvZmYgdGhlIHBhaW50IGluIHRoZSBhcmVhcyBuZWVk ZWQsIGFuZCB0aGVuIHBhaW50IGl0IGFnYWluLg0KDQpJIHdpbGwgc2F5IHRoYXQgYXQgdGhlIGxh c3QgZmxpZ2h0IEkgZGlkIHRoZSBjb250YWN0IG9mIG15IGFybSBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBkb29yIHNp bGwgd2FzIGJvdGhlcmluZyBtZSBhIGxpdHRsZS4gSSBhbHNvIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgdGhlIGNvbnRp bnVvdXMgc2xpZ2h0IGxlYW5pbmcgdG8gdGhlIHNpZGUgZG9lc24ndCBhZGQgdG8gY29tZm9ydC4g QnV0IGFzIER1bmNhbiBzYWlkLCB0aGUgaGVhZCBpcyBhbHNvIGFuIGlzc3VlIHRoYXQgaXMgbm90 IGFkZHJlc3NlZCBteSB0aGlzIG1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbi4NCg0KQW5kIEkgYW0gbm90IHJlYWxseSBh IHdpZGUgcGVyc29uLiBJIHdvbmRlciB3aGF0IGRlbW9ncmFwaGljcyBFdXJvcGEgaGFkIGluIG1p bmQgd2hlbiB0aGV5IGRlc2lnbmVkIG91ciBiZWxvdmVkIGFpcnBsYW5lcyAgW1JvbGxpbmcgRXll c10NCg0KDQoNCg0KUmVhZCB0aGlzIHRvcGljIG9ubGluZSBoZXJlOg0KDQpodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1z Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vdmlld3RvcGljLnBocD9wPTUxMDU0MCM1MTA1NDANCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoN Cl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgLSBUaGUgRXVyb3BhLUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KXy09 IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMgTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZQ0KXy09 IHRoZSBtYW55IExpc3QgdXRpbGl0aWVzIHN1Y2ggYXMgTGlzdCBVbi9TdWJzY3JpcHRpb24sDQpf LT0gQXJjaGl2ZSBTZWFyY2ggJiBEb3dubG9hZCwgNy1EYXkgQnJvd3NlLCBDaGF0LCBGQVEsDQpf LT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOg0KXy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDov L3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9FdXJvcGEtTGlzdA0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09 ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZPUlVNUyAtDQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBj b250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2ViIEZvcnVtcyENCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+ IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAtIE5FVyBNQVRST05JQ1MgTElTVCBXSUtJIC0NCl8tPSBBZGQgc29tZSBpbmZvIHRvIHRoZSBN YXRyb25pY3MgRW1haWwgTGlzdCBXaWtpIQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly93aWtpLm1hdHJvbmlj cy5jb20NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBMaXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0 ZSAtDQpfLT0gIFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBnZW5lcm91cyBzdXBwb3J0IQ0KXy09ICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLg0KXy09ICAg LS0+IGh0dHBzOi8vbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24NCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQoNCg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:35 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Finishing tips From: "n7188u" One personal observation regarding finishing: I thought this process was going to be painful, but actually found it to be not as bad as I thought it would. I honestly did not read the entire procedure posted here but I will briefly say what I did. 1.- Clean and carefully scuff sand the fiberglass or gelcoat. 2.- Using the the fishing line technique, apply a nice think coat of expancell plus West Systems 105. What helped a lot was to use an epoxy pump and a sensitive weight scale to exactly measure the ratio of epoxy and expancell. Keeping the mixture consistent between mixes is key. 3.- Apply the mix using a dry wall spreader modified with an angle epoxied at the width of the application end. This is also key to keep the spreader from bending and creating a concave surface. 4.- Wait until the applied coat starts to gel, remove the fishing line, fill the groves left by the line. 5.- Using Dura-Block sanding blocks and very coarse sandpaper sand expancell coat until no depressions are observed. Most of the time a single pass of expancell coat was enough. If a few voids are present fix those. 6.- Now the cool part, I used a modified epoxy 2K filling primer made by 5-Star and rolled it on using a small foam roller. Push hard and fill as many pinholes as you can. 7.- Once cured, apply coat of Dry Guide Coat (I used Mirka brand). 8.- Sand this coat until all of the guidecoat is gone. Don't worry if this results in a good part of the 5-Start 2K to be gone. 9.- Spray one heavy coat of SPI (Southern Polyurethanes) white Epoxy primer. Welcome to pinhole land since this primer will make them show like craters in the moon (it's actually called "cratering" by the people that make the prime which is very prone to doing this). 9.- Now, without sanding the epoxy primer but before 7 days after applying it, use thin 3M polyester glaze to fill every pin hole, one by one. This is tedious but the fantastic quality of the 3M glaze makes the job much easier. The 7 day window is important since the epoxy primer doesn't need to be sanded if the glaze and subsequent 2K is applied within this time frame. 10.- Sand the pinholes. This part is indeed tedious because the polyester putty will stick to the sandpaper. The solution was to use a scrap piece of fiberglass and use it to scrape the glaze of the sandpaper. Use only high quality 3M sanding paper. The cheaper red one seems to work better though and the glaze sticks less. 11.- Spray a heavy coat of SPI grey regular 2K primer. 12.- If any small pinholes show I used red one part lacquer glaze to fill them. Quicker and easier for just a few of them. 13.- Guide coat, sand until the white shows and almost all grey 2K is gone. the guide coat will show the low spots. Here you need to gage what fillers to use to reach perfection. A little more 2K will fill shallow areas but it is a little heavier. Still I used it. Some polyester 2K glaze is also good. I don't think I had anything deep enough to go to expancell. If you do you have to do all the stuff stated above on that area. 14.- Finally, a coat of SPI white epoxy and you can spray the paint (no sanding needed if within 7 days). Or I flew it on primer for 2 years. The stuff still looks like the day it was applied and no issues with bugs or deterioration. The SPI primer is semi gloss so it looks pretty good too. And I used a forced air respiration system and a dust collector from Harbor Freight. I think it is a must. I can provide more detail on the sandpaper used, 3M glaze PN, 5 Star modified epoxy primer, SPI stuff but will have to collect the info. I can also put together a few pictures. I hope I didn't bore anyone with this long post. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510542#510542 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:45 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 From: "Paul M 383" "I wonder what demographics Europa had in mind when they designed our beloved airplanes" Ivan Shaw is 6' 2" and not slim (I'd say that to his face, so no worries :-D) https://www.theeuropaclub.org/the-europa/creator-ivan-shaw HTH Paul G-PLPM Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510543#510543 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/screenshot_20230328_171244_acrobat_for_samsung_105.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/b02db01a_83ec_4d94_9f3d_20cc2c057693_75880_178.jpeg ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:42 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Widening the cockpit - Mod 67 From: "n7188u" Yikes, that is tight (sorry Ivan, you know we love you the same) :) I guess he really wanted to go fast. Mission accomplished on that front. Good idea on the foam piece. Will try that first. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510544#510544 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:53 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Sun 'n Fun Forum and gatherings. From: "budyerly@msn.com" First Day of Sun 'n Fun. It was wildly busy doing volunteer work. I went through the LSA and Spot Landing contest. My old friend and EAA member John Moody (The father of Ultralights) porpoised his little ultralight yesterday and luckily at 80+ he got a scratch on his arm and cracked his helmet when he hit hard on the nose and the plane flipped upside down (it is a biplane) and we got him medical attention and he is fine. It P.O.ed his wife as he broke his pledge to stop flying his Easy Riser. So I didn't see much and after running errands also, we got home had supper and I'm vegging out. Tomorrow the front comes through and we are doing the Europa Seminar at 1 PM still showing at CFAA-05 on the second floor room 206 so watch the signs. Fly/Drive Safe and see you there. Bud Yerly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510548#510548 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:56 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa Sun 'n Fun Forum and gatherings. From: "n7188u" Im glad to hear John is ok. I always enjoyed watching his show. Now it seems Ill go to SnF on Saturday. Not a fan of going that day but my son has school obligations and he wants to come. We would like to see the night show and pitch a tent to sleep then head back home on Sunday. Ill try to fly the Europa but forecast calls for a windy day on Sunday. Will see as the day nears. Could always take the LongEZ (that plane doesnt mind windy days but cant take anything in it) Anyone there with an Europa on Saturday? Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510549#510549 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.