Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:10 AM - Re: Making an Europa pretty (n7188u)
2. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: Making an Europa pretty (Paul McAllister)
3. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Making an Europa pretty (Bud Yerly)
4. 06:44 PM - Re: Re: Making an Europa pretty (Bud Yerly)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Making an Europa pretty |
Hi Bud, good and down to earth writeup. What you describe is what I have experienced
and have settled for. Orange peel will be there in my airplane but as I
mentioned it doesn't look that bad. Just being picky. I think that the problem
with this task is that you build unrealistic expectations by reading postings
from pros, then suffer if you can get perfect results. I learned my lesson and
things are moving a tad quicker now.
BTW, I hate this nasty paint but I bought a new forced air respirator system and
use a full suit with a full hood. Works surprisingly well. I placed the turbine
in a box with an AC blowing at it and it keeps my head and suit cold inside.
It's nice.
I have settled for spraying a thinner coat and will probably not cut and buff because
I don't want to run the risk of burning through the paint and having to
do it again (NO F WAY). The best finish so far is by applying thinner coats and
hoping it flows. But the difference between too dry and too wet is milliseconds
in speed. This morning I used my slower Iwata and I think it is a little
better. Regarding Florida heat, I am waking up at 5:30 to spray. Temp around 75F
but yes, the booth will heat up when it is curing during the day. I am using
a little retarder which helps. I could place the AC unit in the booth and turn
it on when finished spraying.
BTW, I sprayed the access covers on the plane with 24 year old PPG Durathane with
a crappy gun and it went on like a mirror. So old paints were sure much easier
to spray than todays.
So I leave you with a couple of pictures of my spray this morning. Not bad. But
I have noticed that it looks better after spray and then gets a little more orange
peely with the day heat. I'll work on getting my window AC unit installed
in the booth later today to try.
One day I will have my pretty Europa flying again, for good.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511098#511098
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Making an Europa pretty |
Bud, I see in your posting that you have experience with Imron. I have
some paint damage on my red GP4. It's painted with Imron and I have some
of the original paint from the builder. Is it possible for a skilled
painter to blend in with the existing paint or am I faced with having the
whole wing painted. Thanks, Paul
On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 12:37=AFPM Bud Yerly <budyerly@msn.com> wrote
:
>
> Chris,
> I've used Imron and Imron industrial on my planes for 20 years and I love
> and hate the paint.
> As 51 commented, I too made the mistake of painting urethane without
> proper ventilation/protection back in the 80s. Nasty stuff. I was lucky
,
> as soon as I realized I was "poisoned" I ran out of the booth and stopped
> trying to paint without proper equipment. I will occasionally paint in t
he
> shop (like one wing top) with only a good mask and lots of ventilation, b
ut
> I am extremely careful now.
>
> Orange peel and urethane are inseparable. You are right, there are
> degrees of orange peel. Some are visible but when you run your hand over
> the skin, it squeaks and feels slick. That kind of orange peel is fine
> with me.
> When Johnny (my painter) was still able, he could shoot even industrial
> Imron dead smooth. He used a Binx #7 and moved extremely fast and steady
> laying a light wet coat at about 30 PSI, followed by a medium at 70 PSI
> then the final at 120 PSI. The paint cloud was horrible, but he could ge
t
> it smooth just about every time. Once cured on top to the touch, he woul
d
> mist the plane with water. Keeping the paint cool or it would orange pee
l
> in the hot Florida days. He said the key was a good 150 PSI compressor
> that put out cool dry air. An air conditioned paint booth was a must in
> Florida. A gun that atomizes extremely well, and of course good techniqu
e
> and overlap consistency. (At his home he painted at night in the cool fa
ll
> and used water to cool the paint.) Once the government forced him to go
to
> HVLP guns, he never got the technique down again. Using the HVLP guns
> (DeVilbiss mostly) the Imron serious orange peel started us cutting and
> buffing for a week on the last !
> few planes he did for me. He and his guys could clear coat pretty well
> with today's car base coat clear coat urethanes with the HVLP but on old
> style high solids urethanes, it remained a challenge. I've seen Aerothan
e
> go on smooth using an HVLP with 1.3 nozzle and it was still a bit lumpy
> without reducing, but not bad so they seem to be doing it right. However
,
> Johnny's guys did not like Aerothane as they never got the settings right
> (of course they never read instructions either). For that much money per
> gallon it should go on perfectly. The only car paint I've ever put on an
> airplane was a brand called Autobaun from Germany. It was a very nice
> paint. Expensive but still not as hard and wear resistant as Imron or
> aircraft quality paints.
>
> Imron, like most urethanes is so sensitive to flash, temperature and gun
> settings that it would orange peel just looking at it. If the air supply
> isn't dry, the humidity and temp controlled in the booth and the part als
o
> cool I can't do a nice HVLP job. The factory rep came to the body shop a
nd
> he couldn=99t get the Imron industrial not to orange peel. Dupont
called for
> a first coat of medium wet using a 1.1 nozzle. Then two more medium wet
> coats. The aileron looked like a golf ball finish. We found like A51
> said, doing it on the flat with a HVLP with a larger nozzle helped on the
> thicker paints. I can't emphasize enough that these aircraft paints like
> to go onto a cool surface (70F or so) and prefer cool air or they flash.
I
> got rid of my turbine gun years ago because of the heat they added. I he
ar
> reducers help but in my experience, keep it cool and let it cure at 75F o
r
> below overnight.
>
> Cutting and buffing became a way of life for paint finishers with urethan
e
> if you wanted that glass finish. I've even tried adding the roller
> additive we used on boats for roll and tipping, and a reducer which cut t
he
> orange peel somewhat, but it was still somewhat there.
>
> I hate doing the labor, but if you put enough paint on, then cut and buff
> starting with 800 wet sanded on significant orange peel then 1000, 1200,
> 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000 changing pads frequently and then buffing at low
> speed with fine compounds, you can get a glass finish in only a weeks wor
th
> of work. If you put on the paint very thick here in Florida's summer hea
t
> and try to cut it, you can often see microscopic air bubbles in the paint
> if it dried too fast on top and trapped the air in the paint. In that
> case, wet sand all the way down to the primer and start over.
>
> When it is done well, it sure does look pretty once polished out. Proble
m
> is we don't do it often enough to get the learning curve firmly set in ou
r
> brain. So, today, once it dries, I'm back to cut and buff. I'm still no
t
> motivated to paint the top of my wing delamination repair. Primer sure
> looks good, but I've got to scuff the top, tape and drape and get psyched
> up to finish this project.
>
> Best Regards,
> Bud Yerly
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <
> owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of Area-51
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 3:52 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Making an Europa pretty
>
> goldsteinindustrial@gmail.com>
>
> All valid and wise... It's an aircraft, not a static show pony at the
> hotrod meet where guys debate near useless aspects of OCD cosmetic
> indulgence found nowhere else except in the fashion industry.
>
> And it is white.
>
> There are actually some paint guys that can get a glass mirror finish off
> the gun. All they do is top coat paint and nothing else; and they sure
> charge for it. They number very few. In the olden days brushes were of th
e
> finest sable and the pot of paint was heated to get the paint to flow out
> flat; then it was all finished in wax.
>
> Orange peel is controlled by several factors; the pressure exiting the
> nozzle, the amount of paint metering through the nozzle, the flash time
> factored by the amount of reducer/extender added in the mix, temperature
> and stability while inside the booth. The longer the flash time the more
> the paint will flatten out, partly why rotisseries are used, but the more
> opportinity for dust, runs and bugs to ruin the show. What ever panel can
> be laid flat the better.
>
> Flow coating clear will build the depth illusion; not really noticeable o
n
> white unless it has a fleck or pearl factor in the base coat. And it will
> turn slightly yellow as it ages. Not really necessary. Better off going f
or
> three to four coats of base colour and leaving it to cure if it meets the
> grade.
>
> I painted a car in a home made garage booth with Glasurit system in 1987;
> it was a great finish straight off the gun and never got cut or buffed. 3
5
> years after it still looked as good as the day it was assembled with just
a
> wash chamois and wax. And was ill with mild cyanide poisoning for the fir
st
> two enjoyable years. =C3=B0=C5=B8=CB=9C=C5-
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511092#511092
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Making an Europa pretty |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Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Making an Europa pretty |
Chris,
PPG Omni is very popular here with the RV crowd in Central Florida. It doesn't
hold up well to abuse in my opinion. It is not really hard paint but goes on
easy and dries even. It is also easy to touchup.
The local airplane resellers simply use the cheapest car paint they can find.
My long-time repair facility owner and friend calls them scratch and sniff jobs.
The leading edges on the wings are gone in 5-6 years. But they got the sale.
In stead of PPG on a repair once I used a paint called Autobahn. It's German,
not expensive and I was impressed with its durability and how smooth it went
on for a guy I hired to reshoot the plane. He liked shooting paint, but not
repairs. I let him go, and now I wished I still had his number. I would have
been flying months ago. No matte what paint I use somebody always has a better
paint I should try. Opinions are like butt holes, everybody's got one.
The plane is yours and the finish coat will never meet your standards but stand
back 5-10 feet and look. If you only have a little overspray and occasional
orange peel, cut and buff the top of the wings/stabs to look nice and 90% of the
pilots will not notice any flaws. I did the sides and top of the fuselage/cowl
so the vinyl would look and stick nice. I then did the bottom of the wings
before putting on the speed kit. When Imron dries completely, boy is it hard
to cut and buff. I prefer to cut and buff Imron when it is only about 2-3
days old or the work load increases and then I get impatient and sand and push
a bit too hard and can bubble the paint. Be patient. Three coats of a high
solids paint is plenty of paint to cut and buff.
Keep it up. She will fly even better with nice smooth (ish) paint. Bugs and dirt
will wipe right off.
Bud Yerly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com>
On Behalf Of n7188u
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2023 10:09 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Making an Europa pretty
Hi Bud, good and down to earth writeup. What you describe is what I have experienced
and have settled for. Orange peel will be there in my airplane but as I
mentioned it doesn't look that bad. Just being picky. I think that the problem
with this task is that you build unrealistic expectations by reading postings
from pros, then suffer if you can get perfect results. I learned my lesson and
things are moving a tad quicker now.
BTW, I hate this nasty paint but I bought a new forced air respirator system and
use a full suit with a full hood. Works surprisingly well. I placed the turbine
in a box with an AC blowing at it and it keeps my head and suit cold inside.
It's nice.
I have settled for spraying a thinner coat and will probably not cut and buff because
I don't want to run the risk of burning through the paint and having to
do it again (NO F WAY). The best finish so far is by applying thinner coats and
hoping it flows. But the difference between too dry and too wet is milliseconds
in speed. This morning I used my slower Iwata and I think it is a little
better. Regarding Florida heat, I am waking up at 5:30 to spray. Temp around 75F
but yes, the booth will heat up when it is curing during the day. I am using
a little retarder which helps. I could place the AC unit in the booth and turn
it on when finished spraying.
BTW, I sprayed the access covers on the plane with 24 year old PPG Durathane with
a crappy gun and it went on like a mirror. So old paints were sure much easier
to spray than todays.
So I leave you with a couple of pictures of my spray this morning. Not bad. But
I have noticed that it looks better after spray and then gets a little more orange
peely with the day heat. I'll work on getting my window AC unit installed
in the booth later today to try.
One day I will have my pretty Europa flying again, for good.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511098#511098
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|