Today's Message Index:
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1. 12:49 AM - Re: MT04 Engine Mounts (Dpc)
2. 01:03 AM - Re: Re: MT04 Engine Mounts ()
3. 03:32 AM - Re: MT04 Engine Mounts (Kelvin Weston)
4. 06:20 AM - Re: MT04 Engine Mounts (rparigoris)
5. 03:48 PM - Re: MT04 Engine Mounts (Peter pender)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: MT04 Engine Mounts |
Hello Kelvin
I am one of those other Europa customers for the MT04 and have also seen, and commented
to Europa, about this eccentricity.
Because they are quite squashy, once they are in place I dont think it makes any
real difference to the engine alignment as I think they largely even themselves
out across the four corners. There is also, of course, the vertical and sideways
alignment that can be controlled by the number of washers you put between
the spacers in the engine mount and the aircraft end of the frame. I have a
Classic and found that the washers have a very critical impact on how close the
fuel pump, and its spigots, get to the starboard radiator. Its all extremely
tight in there and one washers thickness can make all the difference!
However, although I wouldnt be so worried about the overall alignment, as youll
know, getting the mounts into place is not an easy task!
The biggest issue I found is that it was hard to ensure that the inside ring of
the rubber of the mounts remained fully engaged in the innermost hole of the
engine mounts from both sides. The mounts tended to want to pop out very easily
as they didnt sit comfortably or easily in the engine mount holes but only stayed
there with some degree of tension. This meant that the slightest degree
of sideways knock while inserting the bolts etc made them pop out. Just tightening
up the bolts and hoping for the best risked snagging and distorting that
inner rubber ring and this is what had happened on one of the mounts I had removed
so maybe this eccentricity has been going on for a while.
I did the job on my own but it would have been much easier with another pair of
hands to hold the rubbers properly in place while the bolts were inserted. It
might also help to hold the rubbers tightly in place in the frame with insulating
tape while assembling and then remove the tape once the bolts are in.
Feel free to give me a call to discuss if youd like.
I finally have the whole engine back in, reconnected and have done initial engine
runs. Now waiting for inspector before I can fly again.
Best regards
David Cripps
G-BWJH
> On 24 Jul 2023, at 08:35, Kelvin Weston <kelv@kdweston.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Hi All
>
> I recently purchased new MT04 engine mounts from Europa.
>
> However, on examination, I noticed that the bolt hole and the raised ring that
locates in the engine frame are not in the centre of the rubber mount.
> You might be able to see this in the picture. My concern is they might result
in misalignment of the rear of the engine frame in relation to the landing gear
frame.
>
> Replacement of the mounts is not an easy task, so I have contacted both Europa
and the LAA for advice.
>
> Europa have informed me they are aware of this problem and are investigating
with the supplier.
> However, they have also stated that they have issued five sets in a similar condition
to other owners and as far as they are aware the non-concentricity of
the rubber mounts has not posed a problem.
>
> I would therefore be very interested to make contact with any owners that were
issued or have fitted these non-concentric mounts to discuss any problems encountered.
> Email address below or send me a PM.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> --------
> Regards
>
> Kelv Weston
> Kit 497
> kelv@kdweston.co.uk
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511137#511137
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/engine_mounts_931.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: MT04 Engine Mounts |
Hi Kelvin
Just for interest, can you explain why you are changing the mounts and what
is the condition of the ones you removed?
Regards
Brian Davies
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com> On Behalf Of n7188u
Sent: 24 July 2023 21:01
Subject: Europa-List: Re: MT04 Engine Mounts
Hi Kelvin,
I have no experience on a situation as yours but since options may be
limited, unless you switch to the Lord engine mounts (and I guess in the UK
that may not be easy) then I would try to install them an see how it feels
in terms of how much force will be needed to install them.
>From the pictures I assume that the ring you refer too and the hole are
concentric, so it is possible that the holes will end up in the right place
with only the outside of the rubber pushing against the socket in the mount.
If the holes do end up moving slightly off center, make sure that they are
all not clocked exactly in the same position or the engine will be displaced
slightly. Try to set each on a different position like 45-135-225-315 to
that the engine ends up centered.
Again, you may hear an opposing opinion but if I was out of options then
this is what I would try if the forces to line things up are not excessive.
And I would inspect the rubber mounts on a more regularly until you can get
better ones.
And again, in the UK maybe you can't do something like this.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511145#511145
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: MT04 Engine Mounts |
Hi Brian
My Europa is not flying yet and as the original mounts supplied with the kit were
12+ years old, I decided it would be prudent to replace with new items when
I fitted the engine.
A set was purchased from Karen at Europa back in late 2018 and fitted with the
engine in 2022. In the short space of time since installation (14 months) the
engine has pitched down several degrees with very slight but visible uneven compression
of the engine mount rubbers, fore & aft (pics attached). A similar
situation (albeit reversed) exists on the lower mounts.
This is further evident by the spinner being displaced from its original position
against the cowling.
I checked the spacer length which was correct at 45mm so I was then concerned that
the rubber was too soft. I know from the forum that there had been similar
problems in the past.
Hence the recent purchase of another set of MT04s from Europa, only to find they
had been poorly manufactured. Incidentally, Europa has assured me that my 2018
replacements were not from the defective soft batch and that the 2018 items
and the recently supplied mounts were both well within the hardness tolerance.
I am sure the engine will have a tendency to settle on any new mounts fitted and
I would be interested to know from other owners if the settling and differential
compression in the picture is normal.
If so, I may just re-shim with washers and move on.
I am also almost tempted to fit my original, unused (now 15 years old) mounts that
have been stored in a plastic bag, out of sunlight, heat and oil, etc that
look perfect, feel slightly harder and are perfectly concentric !!!
I am waiting a response from Tom at Europa and the LAA, but if I do fit the latest
items, my original plan (as Chris has stated above) was to orientate the mounts
with the thicker offset of each mount pointing out towards each corner of
the engine frame. I believe this will even out any possible misalignment at
the rear of the engine, I can then re-shim the washers to get the angles and
spinner correct,
However, my concern is getting the raised ring to locate correctly in the engine
frame.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511148#511148
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/g_zigy_mt04_stbd_121.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/g_zigy_mt04_port_203.jpg
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: MT04 Engine Mounts |
Hi Kelvin
FWIW I made up some clamps to hold mounts in place, made for easy install:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VgoRx4Xz0YQSao28z8Q?e=b02rSh
I also made up some slotted spacers out of home plumbing pipe strap cut with a
tin snip. EZ PZ to add or take away spacers in situation, then measure and install
washers the same width.
I used torque for the AN sized bolt used for mounting and ended up crushing the
spacers. I think Europa used to use thicker spacers made out of stronger stainless,
now they are using just a thinner wall tube. Don't tighten the bolts too
much! I ended up making spacers out of 4130 and a bit thicker. I tested one
of the 4130 spacers in a vise and broke the bolt with no crush of the spacer.
I tested the mush metal Europa spacers, boy you don't need much top crush them.
My motor mount on our XS Mono didn't align too good with UCMF. I was able to assemble
it, but mushed and pushed things so it made the motor mount look like your
offset ones a bit! If I had your offset mounts, I would assemble using them
to better align things without so much mushing and pushing.
If you have a Mono, I imagine you would replace your bungee? If you do, I left
a tail of bungee to make tightening easier and also added some extra loop/s. I
forget how many, you can count. Also the rear nut's that have cotter pins are
a pain to get to to remove. I added a length of safety wire to make future removal
easier.
Here's the folder link:
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ah1S270Nwg9VyHfneXbuyPfZHtAk?e=03hHN0
Ron P.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511149#511149
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: MT04 Engine Mounts |
Hi Kelvin,
May I suggest that you allow for a bit of sag initially as like you I had some
old isolation rubbers that I replaced with new a short time before first flight
and have since had to shim them twice in about 80 hrs.
Maybe the old ones might have held up better. I now have the spinner slightly above
the cowl and have noticed better cruise performance with the changed thrust
line, any aerodynamics engineers like to comment. Perhaps now it's where it
was designed to be.
Cheers Peter
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511150#511150
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