Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:05 AM - Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines (Davidcripps)
2. 08:58 AM - Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust (danbish99)
3. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust (Alan Burrill)
4. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust (Wladimir Kummer)
5. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust (Alan Burrill)
6. 12:49 PM - Re: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines (timward)
7. 03:36 PM - Re: Cork insulation for noise reduction (dmac7)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines |
As part of recent work replacing all oil and fuel lines in my Europa Classic Trigear
912UL, I added firesleeve to both the new fuel and oil lines. In addition
I have added heat-reflective silver foil tube to the oil lines. This was done
since some significant deterioration of the exterior of the previously uninsulated/unsleeved
oil lines had been seen where the oil lines passed rather close
to parts of the exhaust (unavoidable in the tight confines of a Classic!)
While carrying out this work I also tried to deal with the previously seen 'high
oil temperature in climb issue', by silicone sealing the oil cooler to the back
of the port radiator, in order to ensure that more air went through the oil
cooler and didn't leak around it.
If anything, high oil temperatures in the climb have got worse since all these
changes, requiring even more careful climb management, using multiple steps. It's
manageable, but a bit of a pain, and that's in the not-too-hot UK climate.
Oil temperatures stabilise around 115C once settled in the cruise, and water
temps are completely fine, in both climb and cruise.
Has the expected oil-cooling benefit of silicone sealing the oil cooler to the
radiator been completely negated by the added insulation effect of the firesleeve/silver
foil tube on the oil lines? I'm wondering how much oil cooling depends
on radiation from the oil lines themselves? Does anyone have any experiences
of the impact on temps of adding firesleeve to oil lines?
My next planned step is to try to make a better seal of the port radiator to the
cowl (not quite sure how to do this) and possibly add spacers to the bottom
edge of the lower cowl to increase exit area. From reading the many useful postings
on cooling issues, these would seem to help, but should I take off the oil
hose firesleeve instead/as well? I would welcome any thoughts, ideas and comments!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511385#511385
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust |
Newbie question here - why would there be a need for the tubing from the D panel
back to the port near the rudder? Seems you'd just install an adjustable vent
or two below the D panel and an exit one near the rudder. The air is going to
get to that exit with or without the tubing. Then test different adjustments
in the vents until you get a setting that best matches your most used altitude.
Wrong?
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511386#511386
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust |
Because you may find that the air pressure behind the D panel is higher than the
cockpit and so you will simple see air coming from the rear to the cockpit unless
you have some arrangement in the tail to lower the air pressure in that
area.
In my aircraft that is what happens, Trigear XS.
Alan
Sent from my iPad
> On 31 Aug 2023, at 16:59, danbish99 <bdanbish@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Newbie question here - why would there be a need for the tubing from the D panel
back to the port near the rudder? Seems you'd just install an adjustable vent
or two below the D panel and an exit one near the rudder. The air is going
to get to that exit with or without the tubing. Then test different adjustments
in the vents until you get a setting that best matches your most used altitude.
Wrong?
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511386#511386
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust |
I=C2=B4m considering fitting a small air exit at the cockpit side where due
the
effect of wing=C2=B4s top curvature there will be a negative pressure gradi
ent.
Also, I could be slightly turned down and after so to avoid water entering
from rain.
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31/08/23,
13:59:58
Em qui., 31 de ago. de 2023 =C3-s 13:14, Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
escreveu:
>
> Because you may find that the air pressure behind the D panel is higher
> than the cockpit and so you will simple see air coming from the rear to t
he
> cockpit unless you have some arrangement in the tail to lower the air
> pressure in that area.
>
> In my aircraft that is what happens, Trigear XS.
>
> Alan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 31 Aug 2023, at 16:59, danbish99 <bdanbish@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
.com>
> >
> > Newbie question here - why would there be a need for the tubing from th
e
> D panel back to the port near the rudder? Seems you'd just install an
> adjustable vent or two below the D panel and an exit one near the rudder.
> The air is going to get to that exit with or without the tubing. Then te
st
> different adjustments in the vents until you get a setting that best
> matches your most used altitude. Wrong?
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511386#511386
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust |
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines |
Hi David,
I have the Monowheel Classic with the Rotax 912ULS 100hp. This produces 8% m
ore heat as compared to the Rotax 912UL. Consequently I moved the oil cooler
from behind the port radiator to underneath the gearbox/spinner. I created a
n inlet in the bottom cowl, without creating a =98spitfire nose=99
inlet, to allow air to flow freely through the cooler and exit out the bott
om of the cowl next to the exhaust. I also have the Rotax shroud over the cy
linders and created an inlet either side of the spinner, one for air to flow
under the shroud, the other for cabin air. With this arrangement I do not h
ave any problems with cooling. I would not think any firesleeve/silver foil t
ubing would make a difference to the temperature. The piggy back oil coolant
on port radiator is not very effective, as the air exit flow path is not go
od. I will send you a photo to clarify what I have done.
Cheers, Tim
Sent from my iPad
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand.
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
> On 1/09/2023, at 12:12 AM, Davidcripps <dpc@knightonweb.com> wrote:
>
.com>
>
> As part of recent work replacing all oil and fuel lines in my Europa Class
ic Trigear 912UL, I added firesleeve to both the new fuel and oil lines. In a
ddition I have added heat-reflective silver foil tube to the oil lines. This
was done since some significant deterioration of the exterior of the previo
usly uninsulated/unsleeved oil lines had been seen where the oil lines passe
d rather close to parts of the exhaust (unavoidable in the tight confines of
a Classic!)
>
> While carrying out this work I also tried to deal with the previously seen
'high oil temperature in climb issue', by silicone sealing the oil cooler t
o the back of the port radiator, in order to ensure that more air went throu
gh the oil cooler and didn't leak around it.
>
> If anything, high oil temperatures in the climb have got worse since all t
hese changes, requiring even more careful climb management, using multiple s
teps. It's manageable, but a bit of a pain, and that's in the not-too-hot UK
climate. Oil temperatures stabilise around 115C once settled in the cruise,
and water temps are completely fine, in both climb and cruise.
>
> Has the expected oil-cooling benefit of silicone sealing the oil cooler to
the radiator been completely negated by the added insulation effect of the f
iresleeve/silver foil tube on the oil lines? I'm wondering how much oil cool
ing depends on radiation from the oil lines themselves? Does anyone have any
experiences of the impact on temps of adding firesleeve to oil lines?
>
> My next planned step is to try to make a better seal of the port radiator t
o the cowl (not quite sure how to do this) and possibly add spacers to the b
ottom edge of the lower cowl to increase exit area. =46rom reading the many u
seful postings on cooling issues, these would seem to help, but should I tak
e off the oil hose firesleeve instead/as well? I would welcome any thoughts,
ideas and comments!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511385#511385
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cork insulation for noise reduction |
Doing a small amount of research we learn that there are two ratings of interest
when considering a material for sound control, NRC Noise Reduction Coefficient
= sound absorption Cork said to be 0.7 NRC means 70% absorbed 30% reflected
at specific frequencies 250, 500, 1000, 2000 HZ
STC Sound Transmission Class = ability to block noise, Cork said to be 89 that
makes Cork rather unique it both blocks and absorbs noise, perhaps this is why
it passed the lab testing at Airbus so successfully.
I came across a article from 16 years ago on airliners.net saying the next step
for airbus was a two year test in the fuselage of one of their jets with Cork
insulation.
Then one must decide the best locations to place it, top cowl & firewall to start
I suppose.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511391#511391
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