---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/31/23: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:05 AM - Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines (Davidcripps) 2. 08:58 AM - Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust (danbish99) 3. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust (Alan Burrill) 4. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust (Wladimir Kummer) 5. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust (Alan Burrill) 6. 12:49 PM - Re: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines (timward) 7. 03:36 PM - Re: Cork insulation for noise reduction (dmac7) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:19 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines From: "Davidcripps" As part of recent work replacing all oil and fuel lines in my Europa Classic Trigear 912UL, I added firesleeve to both the new fuel and oil lines. In addition I have added heat-reflective silver foil tube to the oil lines. This was done since some significant deterioration of the exterior of the previously uninsulated/unsleeved oil lines had been seen where the oil lines passed rather close to parts of the exhaust (unavoidable in the tight confines of a Classic!) While carrying out this work I also tried to deal with the previously seen 'high oil temperature in climb issue', by silicone sealing the oil cooler to the back of the port radiator, in order to ensure that more air went through the oil cooler and didn't leak around it. If anything, high oil temperatures in the climb have got worse since all these changes, requiring even more careful climb management, using multiple steps. It's manageable, but a bit of a pain, and that's in the not-too-hot UK climate. Oil temperatures stabilise around 115C once settled in the cruise, and water temps are completely fine, in both climb and cruise. Has the expected oil-cooling benefit of silicone sealing the oil cooler to the radiator been completely negated by the added insulation effect of the firesleeve/silver foil tube on the oil lines? I'm wondering how much oil cooling depends on radiation from the oil lines themselves? Does anyone have any experiences of the impact on temps of adding firesleeve to oil lines? My next planned step is to try to make a better seal of the port radiator to the cowl (not quite sure how to do this) and possibly add spacers to the bottom edge of the lower cowl to increase exit area. From reading the many useful postings on cooling issues, these would seem to help, but should I take off the oil hose firesleeve instead/as well? I would welcome any thoughts, ideas and comments! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511385#511385 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:23 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust From: "danbish99" Newbie question here - why would there be a need for the tubing from the D panel back to the port near the rudder? Seems you'd just install an adjustable vent or two below the D panel and an exit one near the rudder. The air is going to get to that exit with or without the tubing. Then test different adjustments in the vents until you get a setting that best matches your most used altitude. Wrong? Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511386#511386 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:32 AM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust Because you may find that the air pressure behind the D panel is higher than the cockpit and so you will simple see air coming from the rear to the cockpit unless you have some arrangement in the tail to lower the air pressure in that area. In my aircraft that is what happens, Trigear XS. Alan Sent from my iPad > On 31 Aug 2023, at 16:59, danbish99 wrote: > > > Newbie question here - why would there be a need for the tubing from the D panel back to the port near the rudder? Seems you'd just install an adjustable vent or two below the D panel and an exit one near the rudder. The air is going to get to that exit with or without the tubing. Then test different adjustments in the vents until you get a setting that best matches your most used altitude. Wrong? > > Dan > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511386#511386 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:40 AM PST US From: Wladimir Kummer Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust I=C2=B4m considering fitting a small air exit at the cockpit side where due the effect of wing=C2=B4s top curvature there will be a negative pressure gradi ent. Also, I could be slightly turned down and after so to avoid water entering from rain. [image: Mailtrack] Sender notified by Mailtrack 31/08/23, 13:59:58 Em qui., 31 de ago. de 2023 =C3-s 13:14, Alan Burrill escreveu: > > Because you may find that the air pressure behind the D panel is higher > than the cockpit and so you will simple see air coming from the rear to t he > cockpit unless you have some arrangement in the tail to lower the air > pressure in that area. > > In my aircraft that is what happens, Trigear XS. > > Alan > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 31 Aug 2023, at 16:59, danbish99 wrote: > > .com> > > > > Newbie question here - why would there be a need for the tubing from th e > D panel back to the port near the rudder? Seems you'd just install an > adjustable vent or two below the D panel and an exit one near the rudder. > The air is going to get to that exit with or without the tubing. Then te st > different adjustments in the vents until you get a setting that best > matches your most used altitude. Wrong? > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511386#511386 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:49 AM PST US From: Alan Burrill Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Cabin fresh air exhaust --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:10 PM PST US From: timward Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling impact of using firesleeve on oil lines Hi David, I have the Monowheel Classic with the Rotax 912ULS 100hp. This produces 8% m ore heat as compared to the Rotax 912UL. Consequently I moved the oil cooler from behind the port radiator to underneath the gearbox/spinner. I created a n inlet in the bottom cowl, without creating a =98spitfire nose=99 inlet, to allow air to flow freely through the cooler and exit out the bott om of the cowl next to the exhaust. I also have the Rotax shroud over the cy linders and created an inlet either side of the spinner, one for air to flow under the shroud, the other for cabin air. With this arrangement I do not h ave any problems with cooling. I would not think any firesleeve/silver foil t ubing would make a difference to the temperature. The piggy back oil coolant on port radiator is not very effective, as the air exit flow path is not go od. I will send you a photo to clarify what I have done. Cheers, Tim Sent from my iPad Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8052 New Zealand. ward.t@xtra.co.nz 021 0640221 > On 1/09/2023, at 12:12 AM, Davidcripps wrote: > .com> > > As part of recent work replacing all oil and fuel lines in my Europa Class ic Trigear 912UL, I added firesleeve to both the new fuel and oil lines. In a ddition I have added heat-reflective silver foil tube to the oil lines. This was done since some significant deterioration of the exterior of the previo usly uninsulated/unsleeved oil lines had been seen where the oil lines passe d rather close to parts of the exhaust (unavoidable in the tight confines of a Classic!) > > While carrying out this work I also tried to deal with the previously seen 'high oil temperature in climb issue', by silicone sealing the oil cooler t o the back of the port radiator, in order to ensure that more air went throu gh the oil cooler and didn't leak around it. > > If anything, high oil temperatures in the climb have got worse since all t hese changes, requiring even more careful climb management, using multiple s teps. It's manageable, but a bit of a pain, and that's in the not-too-hot UK climate. Oil temperatures stabilise around 115C once settled in the cruise, and water temps are completely fine, in both climb and cruise. > > Has the expected oil-cooling benefit of silicone sealing the oil cooler to the radiator been completely negated by the added insulation effect of the f iresleeve/silver foil tube on the oil lines? I'm wondering how much oil cool ing depends on radiation from the oil lines themselves? Does anyone have any experiences of the impact on temps of adding firesleeve to oil lines? > > My next planned step is to try to make a better seal of the port radiator t o the cowl (not quite sure how to do this) and possibly add spacers to the b ottom edge of the lower cowl to increase exit area. =46rom reading the many u seful postings on cooling issues, these would seem to help, but should I tak e off the oil hose firesleeve instead/as well? I would welcome any thoughts, ideas and comments! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=511385#511385 > > > > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:36:21 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cork insulation for noise reduction From: "dmac7" Doing a small amount of research we learn that there are two ratings of interest when considering a material for sound control, NRC Noise Reduction Coefficient = sound absorption Cork said to be 0.7 NRC means 70% absorbed 30% reflected at specific frequencies 250, 500, 1000, 2000 HZ STC Sound Transmission Class = ability to block noise, Cork said to be 89 that makes Cork rather unique it both blocks and absorbs noise, perhaps this is why it passed the lab testing at Airbus so successfully. I came across a article from 16 years ago on airliners.net saying the next step for airbus was a two year test in the fuselage of one of their jets with Cork insulation. Then one must decide the best locations to place it, top cowl & firewall to start I suppose. 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