Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:00 AM - Re: Oil and water hoses (D McFadyean)
2. 02:07 AM - Re: Engine mount bolt loosens (D McFadyean)
3. 04:23 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/03/25 (John Archer)
4. 05:03 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/03/25 (William Daniell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and water hoses |
<<....What's the problem with continuing to use lined silicone hoses for the oil?
...>>
One reason would be that the polyester reinforcement used in normal silicone hoses
will let go at the temperatures that can be seen by the oil (in the return
especially and feed too before the oil cooler).
It is possible to get silicone hose with Nomex as the reinforcement fibre; I've
used these successfully in place of the 1" cylinder head water hoses on the bottom
of the engine.
Duncan McF
> On 04/01/2025 12:33 GMT Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Not aware of anyone who has used silicone for oil hoses. Lots of people have
silicone water hoses, including me, and life certainly better than 5 years in
my experience. I also have silicone hose for the fuel filler and carb to air box
which are fuel resistant.
>
> I would start by looking at the ROTAX documents for hose specification, especially
looking at pressure range, heat and oil, hydrocarbon, protection.
>
> I have seen a silicone water hose damaged by external heat from exhaust.
>
> A good source of info is the motorsport suppliers like
>
> Samco silicone Hoses, Kits, Clip Kits, Classic & Xtreme at Merlin Motorsport
> merlinmotorsport.co.uk
> [apple-touch-icon-180x180.png] https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/samco-silicone-hoses-kits
>
> Silicone hoses have developed well but not sure about oil on an engine side or
the fuel lines either.
>
> If you are UK also you could consult the LAA on their thoughts.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Alan Burrill
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
> > On 3 Jan 2025, at 17:10, JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
>
> >
> > Several years ago I bought a set of silicone hoses from someone in Sweden who
created shaped coolant hoses for the Europa and also provided silicone hoses
with protective lining for the oil system. He no longer makes or provides these
items. Someone, but I can't remember who, stated that these hoses would last
at least twice as long as the rubber types and I have no reason to doubt that.
> >
> > However my engine is currently off the aircraft, so a fellow pilot who has
a minor share of the aircraft would like the oil hoses to be replaced by rubber
originals, even though the silicone looks and feels supple, as good as new!
I would prefer to continue with silicone, because the recommendation is to replace
ALL rubber items every 5 years. The oil hoses are the difficult ones to access,
particularly the return line from the crankcase. But I must also consider
my friend's opinion.
> >
> > So two questions, pertaining only to the oil hoses. What's the problem with
continuing to use lined silicone hoses for the oil? What specification do you
recommend for the rubber oil hoses, which I hope to purchase from a local automotive
parts supplier?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515189#515189
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <==========================bsp; - The Europa-List Email Forum -
> > ===============================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine mount bolt loosens |
I used Loctite 243 on my four bolts. When the engine came out 700 hours/20 years
later, one of the four bolt holes had to be helicoiled for reuse!
I still think this was a combination of residual swarf and Loctite in the depths
of the hole that allowed the bolt to pick up. I was lucky to get the bolt out
at all. Anyway, they didn't come loose in service.
Duncan McF.
> On 04/01/2025 10:08 GMT Alan Burrill <alanb@dpy01.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> A good start to answering you question is the Europa Engine Installation Manual.
>
>
> Alan Burrill
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 26 Dec 2024, at 01:21, JonathanMilbank <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > This is the fourth time in over 27 years that I'm removing a Rotax 912 from
my aircraft to get something attended to. Each time that I've installed an engine
in the past, I inserted and tightened the 4 bolts securing the frame to the
crankcase without using Loctite or grease. I've always simply tightened them,
not using any specific torque setting, but simply tightening them to a degree
which seems "plenty enough".
> >
> > For the first time in over 1500 hours, I've found one bolt which loosened since
the last 50 hour inspection. So my question is whether to use Loctite when
reinstalling the engine and what number Loctite do you recommend?
> >
> > My instinct is to use fairly low strength Loctite, in case the next time of
engine removal proves to be near impossible to get the bolts out.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515168#515168
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> ===================================
> >
> >
> >
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/03/25 |
Hi Jonathan,
Europa Aviation sell silicone hoses for oil and coolant and they are excellent
quality. The oil return line is moulded to the correct shape for the return to
the oil tank. In my opinion, for that hose it is certainly worth using silicone
as it is directly above the exhaust system. Sheath it with Thermotec sleeving
or similar anyway to help protect it. The biggest risk to silicone hoses is
cutting them with incorrect hose clamps.
John
> 1. 09:09 AM - Oil and water hoses (JonathanMilbank)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:09:29 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Oil and water hoses
> From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
>
>
> Several years ago I bought a set of silicone hoses from someone in Sweden who
created
> shaped coolant hoses for the Europa and also provided silicone hoses with
> protective lining for the oil system. He no longer makes or provides these
> items. Someone, but I can't remember who, stated that these hoses would last
at
> least twice as long as the rubber types and I have no reason to doubt that.
>
> However my engine is currently off the aircraft, so a fellow pilot who has a
minor
> share of the aircraft would like the oil hoses to be replaced by rubber originals,
> even though the silicone looks and feels supple, as good as new! I would
> prefer to continue with silicone, because the recommendation is to replace
> ALL rubber items every 5 years. The oil hoses are the difficult ones to access,
> particularly the return line from the crankcase. But I must also consider my
> friend's opinion.
>
> So two questions, pertaining only to the oil hoses. What's the problem with continuing
> to use lined silicone hoses for the oil? What specification do you recommend
> for the rubber oil hoses, which I hope to purchase from a local automotive
> parts supplier?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515189#515189
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 01/03/25 |
I tried silicone hoses water but found that i damaged the outer sheathing
while wrestling them into place. Probably my fault. Reverted to the
rotax spec.
As for changing rubber every 5 years i see it as an opportunity to have a
really good look around in those inaccessible areas.
I used parker 836 pushlok for oil on buds recommendation and it has worked
well. I protect all hose with thermotec velcro sleeve.
Will
William Daniell
+1 786 878 0246
On Sun, Jan 5, 2025, 07:24 John Archer <77alembert@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jonathan,
>
> Europa Aviation sell silicone hoses for oil and coolant and they are
> excellent quality. The oil return line is moulded to the correct shape for
> the return to the oil tank. In my opinion, for that hose it is certainly
> worth using silicone as it is directly above the exhaust system. Sheath it
> with Thermotec sleeving or similar anyway to help protect it. The biggest
> risk to silicone hoses is cutting them with incorrect hose clamps.
>
> John
>
> > 1. 09:09 AM - Oil and water hoses (JonathanMilbank)
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Time: 09:09:29 AM PST US
> > Subject: Europa-List: Oil and water hoses
> > From: "JonathanMilbank" <jdmilbank@yahoo.co.uk>
> >
> >
> > Several years ago I bought a set of silicone hoses from someone in
> Sweden who created
> > shaped coolant hoses for the Europa and also provided silicone hoses with
> > protective lining for the oil system. He no longer makes or provides
> these
> > items. Someone, but I can't remember who, stated that these hoses would
> last at
> > least twice as long as the rubber types and I have no reason to doubt
> that.
> >
> > However my engine is currently off the aircraft, so a fellow pilot who
> has a minor
> > share of the aircraft would like the oil hoses to be replaced by rubber
> originals,
> > even though the silicone looks and feels supple, as good as new! I would
> > prefer to continue with silicone, because the recommendation is to
> replace
> > ALL rubber items every 5 years. The oil hoses are the difficult ones to
> access,
> > particularly the return line from the crankcase. But I must also
> consider my
> > friend's opinion.
> >
> > So two questions, pertaining only to the oil hoses. What's the problem
> with continuing
> > to use lined silicone hoses for the oil? What specification do you
> recommend
> > for the rubber oil hoses, which I hope to purchase from a local
> automotive
> > parts supplier?
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515189#515189
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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