Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:48 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/17/25 (Campbell Hunt)
2. 01:48 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/17/25 (Campbell Hunt)
3. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Mono (Erich Trombley)
4. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Mono (Peter Z)
5. 10:53 AM - Re: Mono Rubber block height (dmac7)
6. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: Mono (Peter Z)
7. 06:28 PM - Re: Mono (dmac7)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/17/25 |
Hi Ron (rparigoris),
Thank you your response. You have given me some scope to investigate my slightly
drooping flaps (when retracted).
I did wonder if there was scope for adjusting the length of the main flap pushrod
from the control end. Im also not sure how to access the mechanism, as I am
not the original builder.
Furthermore, I am curious in the comment that a builder might droop the ailerons
for more efficiency, as I would have thought the reverse would be true, ie,
drooping the ailerons would increase lift, and therefore drag. In the 80s, the
Lockheed L-1011 did the opposite, raising the active FBW ailerons in cruise by
a few degrees in order to reduce drag and increase range.
Drooping ailerons would certainly make stalls lively!
Cam H
> On 18 Mar 2025, at 5:30 pm, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 25-03-17&Archive=Europa
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 25-03-17&Archive=Europa
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 03/17/25: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 05:58 AM - Re: Pushing a Europa uphill (SPURPURA)
> 2. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Flap settings (Mike Christine Duane)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:58:12 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Pushing a Europa uphill
> From: "SPURPURA" <SPURPURA@aol.com>
>
>
> Thats a pretty steep grade. Might be safer to use the winch that is on the trailer.
> I wouldnt recommend pushing on the stab spar.
>
> --------
> N951EU - Tri-gear & 912ULS, N77EU- Mono & 914
> I'D RATHER HAVE A BOTTLE IN FRONT OF ME THAN A FRONTAL LABOTAMY.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515317#515317
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:27:39 AM PST US
> From: Mike Christine Duane <duanefamly@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Flap settings
>
> Something I added was a short steel cable that allows full flap deployment
> but would =9Ccatch=9D the flap if for some reason that flap bec
> ame detached from the flap drive arm in flight.=C2-
> Mike DuaneChandler, ArizonaEuropa XS Jabiru 3300Conventional Gear
>
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
>
>
> On Sunday, March 16, 2025, 17:45, rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Huntcam
> Look at chapter 27 and use template for wing and see where flaps are at.
> Ailerons can be adjusted up or down.
> If flaps are drooping, look close at flap pin/bushing fit, that there is no
> movement on the control horn to flap drive tube, that the flap drive pivot
> s are not loose and that the both ends of the flap pushrod are tight. We in
> stalled adjustable flap up stops. We followed the manual as far as flap pin
> location, but the flap cross tube was hitting the back side of the cockpit
> module. Some mutilation and BID replacement was in order in order to get t
> he flaps to raise as much as we wanted.
> Our flaps drop the same amount, but without a stop, one raises a little mor
> e than the other. With the stop, it limits the up of the one that raises to
> o much, and you pull a tiny bit more to get the other to hit the second sto
> p.
> For what it's worth, we have our ailerons a little reflexed until we learn
> the bird. From what I understand, when you pull positive Gs the ailerons go
> down because the pushrods don't flex but the wings do. Not ideal as far as
> having a tame bird to reduce effective washout. Met one pilot who drooped
> the ailerons on purpose to gain a little efficiency. He said it does work,
> but the bird spins like a maple leaf without too much provocation.
> Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515316#515316
>
>
> S -
> WIKI -
> -
> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 03/17/25 |
Hi Ron (rparigoris),
Thank you your response. You have given me some scope to investigate my slightly
drooping flaps (when retracted).
I did wonder if there was scope for adjusting the length of the main flap pushrod
from the control end. Im also not sure how to access the mechanism, as I am
not the original builder.
Furthermore, I am curious in the comment that a builder might droop the ailerons
for more efficiency, as I would have thought the reverse would be true, ie,
drooping the ailerons would increase lift, and therefore drag. In the 80s, the
Lockheed L-1011 did the opposite, raising the active FBW ailerons in cruise by
a few degrees in order to reduce drag and increase range.
Drooping ailerons would certainly make stalls lively!
Cam H
> On 18 Mar 2025, at 5:30 pm, Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
>
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 25-03-17&Archive=Europa
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 25-03-17&Archive=Europa
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Europa-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Mon 03/17/25: 2
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 05:58 AM - Re: Pushing a Europa uphill (SPURPURA)
> 2. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: Flap settings (Mike Christine Duane)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:58:12 AM PST US
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Pushing a Europa uphill
> From: "SPURPURA" <SPURPURA@aol.com>
>
>
> Thats a pretty steep grade. Might be safer to use the winch that is on the trailer.
> I wouldnt recommend pushing on the stab spar.
>
> --------
> N951EU - Tri-gear & 912ULS, N77EU- Mono & 914
> I'D RATHER HAVE A BOTTLE IN FRONT OF ME THAN A FRONTAL LABOTAMY.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515317#515317
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:27:39 AM PST US
> From: Mike Christine Duane <duanefamly@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Flap settings
>
> Something I added was a short steel cable that allows full flap deployment
> but would =9Ccatch=9D the flap if for some reason that flap bec
> ame detached from the flap drive arm in flight.=C2-
> Mike DuaneChandler, ArizonaEuropa XS Jabiru 3300Conventional Gear
>
>
> Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
>
>
> On Sunday, March 16, 2025, 17:45, rparigoris <rparigor@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Huntcam
> Look at chapter 27 and use template for wing and see where flaps are at.
> Ailerons can be adjusted up or down.
> If flaps are drooping, look close at flap pin/bushing fit, that there is no
> movement on the control horn to flap drive tube, that the flap drive pivot
> s are not loose and that the both ends of the flap pushrod are tight. We in
> stalled adjustable flap up stops. We followed the manual as far as flap pin
> location, but the flap cross tube was hitting the back side of the cockpit
> module. Some mutilation and BID replacement was in order in order to get t
> he flaps to raise as much as we wanted.
> Our flaps drop the same amount, but without a stop, one raises a little mor
> e than the other. With the stop, it limits the up of the one that raises to
> o much, and you pull a tiny bit more to get the other to hit the second sto
> p.
> For what it's worth, we have our ailerons a little reflexed until we learn
> the bird. From what I understand, when you pull positive Gs the ailerons go
> down because the pushrods don't flex but the wings do. Not ideal as far as
> having a tame bird to reduce effective washout. Met one pilot who drooped
> the ailerons on purpose to gain a little efficiency. He said it does work,
> but the bird spins like a maple leaf without too much provocation.
> Ron P.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515316#515316
>
>
> S -
> WIKI -
> -
> =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Pete, I disassemble the unit and attached the spacer to the lower plate with a
couple of screws. Even though the spacer is constrained by the dampers I wanted
to ensure the spacer wouldnt shifting laterally over time. If I remember correctly
there isnt much clearance between the lower LG07 plate and the sides
of the swing arm. Having added a total of three spaces, they are now split between
the upper LG05 and lower LG07 plates. Also, I did make the two new plates
slightly wider (fore and aft) to keep the rubber block from creeping over the
edge of the spacer.
Ron, I got as close to a 3.1 gap. I wanted to minimize the amount of preload on
the rubber block required to achieve the specified dimension of 3.1. I have
the black block.
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
Message 4
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Thx for the clarification!
One more question. The 3.1 static loaded (I would assume), Or unweighted?
> On Mar 20, 2025, at 11:44AM, Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com> wrote:
>
>
> Pete, I disassemble the unit and attached the spacer to the lower plate with
a couple of screws. Even though the spacer is constrained by the dampers I wanted
to ensure the spacer wouldnt shifting laterally over time. If I remember
correctly there isnt much clearance between the lower LG07 plate and the sides
of the swing arm. Having added a total of three spaces, they are now split
between the upper LG05 and lower LG07 plates. Also, I did make the two new plates
slightly wider (fore and aft) to keep the rubber block from creeping over
the edge of the spacer.
>
> Ron, I got as close to a 3.1 gap. I wanted to minimize the amount of preload
on the rubber block required to achieve the specified dimension of 3.1. I have
the black block.
>
> Erich Trombley
> N28ET
> Classic Mono 914
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Mono Rubber block height |
This is a old post from Andy Draper ( before XS ) regarding the two types of rubber
blocks including the material type and pre-load.
The original shock absorber required a pre-compression to bring the
dimension betrween the centres of the top and bottom plate bearings down to
5". The weight of the aircraft then compressed the rubber further, bringing
the top and bottom plates quite close to the limit stops. To allow further
compression of rubber to take place and not compromise propeller clearance
we added a spacer. Following the drop tests we decided to reduce the amount
of pre-compression such that the distance between the plate centres would be
The materials of the red and black blocks are the same: polyurethane grade
RHS/204/all weather 75=B0 Shore hardness to standard commercial tolerances.
The black block is 3/8" deeper than the red to accommodate the extra 1/4"
required between the top and bottom plate mounting centres.
The reason for the colour change of the block is that we have changed the
manufacturer. The first gave no choice of colour, the second allowed a
(a) to ease identification of the changeover,
(b) as it is in a muddy environment a light colour may be
considered inappropriate.
We don't consider that the rubber block has any ability to dissipate energy
(although of ocurse it will to a degree) which is why we have introduced a
damper system. The red block plus spacer will be slightly stiffer than a
black block without, but when you try to quantify the difference in the real
world i.e. on an aeroplane during a landing, you'd need a very sensitive bum
to be able to feel it.
Since the modification which calls out the requirement to cut the Vees in
the rubber blocks (Mod no 16 dated 7 November 1995) was issued, the tooling
for these blocks was altered so that those later recipients of fuselage kits
had the mod done for them.
The Vee shapes and the dampers are not related. All blocks must comply to
Mod 16, with or without dampers, as otherwise there is the possibility of
over-stressing the reaction plates.
When the shock absorber has been set up correctly and the aircraft is sat on
the ground ready for flight, the fuselage will be in a nose up attitude of
around 9=B0. Fuel, people, baggage, etc. will all alter this figure. Use it
as a double check if you have an inclinometer handy.
Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515328#515328
Message 6
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Mine is sagging (with 1/2 tank) down from about 3.0 (based on the retaining bolt
~gaps: I need to measure next time I hang the plane) to its current ~2.65 which
is giving me about 12 prop clearance with the xs tail wheel and classic FWF.
I assume Erich has much more prop clearance.
I was also going to screw the spacer to the bottom plate..and looking it over I
guess all that is needed wrt disassembly is to only remove the swing arm pivot
bolt (?) to install, so I will also likely go with a single plate with shock
holes as per Erich.
My goal is to eliminate the retaining bolt gaps when the plane is static with a
full tank. I think I can get away with a single plate on the bottom.
Cheers and thx!
PeteZ
> On Mar 20, 2025, at 1:06PM, Peter Z <peterz@zutrasoft.com> wrote:
>
> Thx for the clarification!
>
> One more question. The 3.1 static loaded (I would assume), Or unweighted?
>
>> On Mar 20, 2025, at 11:44AM, Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Pete, I disassemble the unit and attached the spacer to the lower plate with
a couple of screws. Even though the spacer is constrained by the dampers I wanted
to ensure the spacer wouldnt shifting laterally over time. If I remember
correctly there isnt much clearance between the lower LG07 plate and the sides
of the swing arm. Having added a total of three spaces, they are now split
between the upper LG05 and lower LG07 plates. Also, I did make the two new plates
slightly wider (fore and aft) to keep the rubber block from creeping over
the edge of the spacer.
>>
>> Ron, I got as close to a 3.1 gap. I wanted to minimize the amount of preload
on the rubber block required to achieve the specified dimension of 3.1. I
have the black block.
>>
>> Erich Trombley
>> N28ET
>> Classic Mono 914
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 7
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Pete see the July 1996 Factory Flyer newsletter Ivan says when shimming the suspension
block a max of 1 inch between the top of tire and bottom of fuselage,
this with plane rigged but empty. Not sure if this applies to the XS also.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=515330#515330
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