Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:42 AM - Introduction (jrosson)
2. 11:30 AM - Re: Introduction (George Richards)
3. 11:37 AM - Sitka spruce source (jrosson)
4. 12:06 PM - Re: Sitka spruce source (ryan42)
5. 02:12 PM - Re: Sitka spruce source (Olen Goodwin)
Message 1
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--> Falco-List message posted by: "jrosson" <jrosson@symetrics.com>
Hi,
I just sent off for Falco plans and hope to be building soon. I know this will
be a long process, but I have dreamed of building a plane since I first picked
up a copy of Homebuilt Aircraft way back in 1965 as a 10 year old. The idea
that one could build their own airplane captivated me and, 40 years later, I
hope to finally start.
I chose the Falco as I wanted a wooden aircraft that could be scratch built. The
idea of popping a million rivets and using endless gallons and yards of resin
and fiberglass has never inspired me like building with wood. I also wanted
a design that had decent performance and could inspire. Well, the Falco certainly
exceeds both criteria! My main worry is that the plane will be a bit too
complex for me, and it exceeds my current piloting capabilities. By that,
I mean I have only flown C-152's and C-172's, so going to a complex A/C will take
some additional training but I guess that will be part of the fun. Also,
the aircraft is a complex one to build, and I hope that the complexity will not
keep me from finishing. I had been set to build a lower performing aircraft,
but I kept putting it off. When my wife said to go ahead and try the Falco,
though, I knew I had to try.
I live in Florida, just miles from the Merritt Island airport, which is a hotbed
of homebuilding activity, so I hope I will get plenty of encouragement and advice.
At least I have my own detached workshop large enough to build the spar,
and being an amateur woodworker, I have most of the tools I will need. Well,
I may need a few hundred more clamps.....
That is enough about me. I look forward to interacting with the rest of you over
what may be many years of building.
Jeff Rosson
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71080#71080
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction |
--> Falco-List message posted by: George Richards <george@falco.co.nz>
Hi Jeff.
Welcome..
The Falco is indeed a complex aircraft to build but that doesn't make it
difficult to build it just means there is more of it. If you think that
each day you are going to build an aeroplane it may well overwhelm you
in time. If you take each day as completing a small job then eventually
you will wake up one day to having an aeroplane.
I wouldn't worry about flying it. Frati learned to fly in a Falco to
prove to people that it could be done since back in those days people
saw anything with a laminar flow wing as something beyond most people...
it isn't.
All the best with your project.
Regards
George
ZK-SMR
www.falco.co.nz
jrosson wrote:
> --> Falco-List message posted by: "jrosson" <jrosson@symetrics.com>
>
> Hi,
>
> I just sent off for Falco plans and hope to be building soon. I know this will
be a long process, but I have dreamed of building a plane since I first picked
up a copy of Homebuilt Aircraft way back in 1965 as a 10 year old. The idea
that one could build their own airplane captivated me and, 40 years later,
I hope to finally start.
>
> I chose the Falco as I wanted a wooden aircraft that could be scratch built.
The idea of popping a million rivets and using endless gallons and yards of resin
and fiberglass has never inspired me like building with wood. I also wanted
a design that had decent performance and could inspire. Well, the Falco certainly
exceeds both criteria! My main worry is that the plane will be a bit
too complex for me, and it exceeds my current piloting capabilities. By that,
I mean I have only flown C-152's and C-172's, so going to a complex A/C will
take some additional training but I guess that will be part of the fun. Also,
the aircraft is a complex one to build, and I hope that the complexity will
not keep me from finishing. I had been set to build a lower performing aircraft,
but I kept putting it off. When my wife said to go ahead and try the Falco,
though, I knew I had to try.
>
> I live in Florida, just miles from the Merritt Island airport, which is a hotbed
of homebuilding activity, so I hope I will get plenty of encouragement and
advice. At least I have my own detached workshop large enough to build the spar,
and being an amateur woodworker, I have most of the tools I will need. Well,
I may need a few hundred more clamps.....
>
> That is enough about me. I look forward to interacting with the rest of you
over what may be many years of building.
>
> Jeff Rosson
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71080#71080
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Sitka spruce source |
--> Falco-List message posted by: "jrosson" <jrosson@symetrics.com>
Hi,
One question I had when first getting really serious about building a plane was
where to get the wood and plywood. These are expensive items that often require
freight charges to ship. Not cheap.
As I have a pretty complete woodworking shop, complete with planer, jointer and table saw, I was not averse to buying spruce in the rough in order to save money. I searched online and found Public Lumber Company (http://www.publiclumber.com/aasitsprucve.html). Two emails to them were never answered, which made leery of ordering due to possibly poor customer service, but the relatively low pricing caused me to give them a chance. I decided to order two pieces of spruce 1" by 8" by 5 feet, thinking that if the lumber was good, I could save a ton of money. If it wasnt, well, hopefully I could at least make cap strips out it. Or a bird house.
I called them up and ordered last Wednesday and am pleased to report that the wood
arrived today in great condition. They charged me $15 for UPS ground shipping.
The wood itself is 8.75" wide (not warped or bowed at all), a bit over
.9 in thickness (with plenty to plane down to .75") and exactly 5' long. From
what I can see, the grain is tight and straight, though maybe 2" of one side
of one board has the grain running at 45 degrees, but then it quickly approaches
70 degrees or better over the rest of the span. All of the other board is
at least 70 degrees. Oh, the growth rings are really tight, well above the minimum
of 6 per inch. No knots or discolorations, though one board is quite darker
overall than the other.
I will plane the boards down later to get a better inspection, but my initial look
is that the wood is indeed aircraft quality. At a price of $4.67 per linear
foot, the price per board foot (bdft), assuming it is planed to .75" and 8.5"
in width, is about $8.80. The price from the supplier we all know about for
finished spruce .75" by 5.75" is over $22 per bdft. To get stock over 6" requires
a special order, and given that their 6" stock (.75" thick) is nearly $25
per bdft, you can see that I am a happy camper to have found this other source.
Now, I still plan on using those other guys for the spar material, as I want to
use certified wood there, but I am comfortable self-certifying wood for most
of the other locations. I am a Professional Engineer (but not aero) if that makes
a difference. Probably doesnt.
My only real concern at this point is how dry the wood is. The web site didnt
say if it was dried or not, and I didnt think to ask. It does not look green
by any means. My research finds the average weight of spruce dried to 12% moisture
content is about 27 pounds per cubic foot, which is about 2.25 pounds per
board foot. My spruce shipment weight in at 15 pounds, or about 2.2 pounds
per bdft, so I guess my wood is reasonably dry after all, but I am not sure what
it the ideal moisture content should be.
I won't go so far as to give an unconditional recommendation to consider Public
Lumber yet. I just got the wood here at work today and I have only inspected
the outer two feet, and it is still in a rough state, so there may be problems.
But what I see looks good. I will report back later on how it looks when
cleaned up. But, I am happy with the service I received. I will reiterate that
their wood is not certified, so even if I were to give a recommendation, I
would still have to advise caution about using it if you are not comfortable.
In any case, I think this wood will be excellent to make cap strips and to use
for non-structural applications for those who have the means and desire to mill
it up. But, I suppose the use of wood that is not certified might open up
a can of worms in debate.
As for a source of plywood, Aircraft Spruce seems to be the cheapest I have found,
but it will still require freight. I hope to find a good source locally (Merritt
Island, FL), and that will certainly be a question I will ask when I make
it to an EAA meeting. Also, I have a friend traveling up to Atlanta soon
and he said he would stop by the store up there and pick up some stuff for me.
Hopes this helps others. If you disagree, chime in and get a debate going.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71166#71166
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sitka spruce source |
--> Falco-List message posted by: "ryan42" <falcobuilder@gmail.com>
Jeff,
It sounds like you have a good approach and if you haven't already, it's good to
look throught the mil-spec document on aircraft spruce. I think it's mentioned
in the manual, or maybe an EAA book for wood aircraft. Wait, maybe it's on
the website...found it. I attached it. If the spruce you got matches up with
what the spec says, it should be good. It just takes effort to inspect all
the wood for the plane that way.
I didn't have to worry about that too much because I'm using the dimensioned, hand
selected spruce from Western Aircraft. Saves me some effort, but I pay a
little more for it.
-Ryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71171#71171
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1military_specification_mil_s_6073__aircraft_spruce_777.pdf
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Sitka spruce source |
--> Falco-List message posted by: "Olen Goodwin" <ogoodwin@comcast.net>
Actually, I don't think anyone sells true "certified" spruce. It may meet
the certification standards, but no one actually certifies it with the
paperwork required. Since we're building experimental airplanes, the
paperwork isn't required anyway, but this is a distinction that should be
noted.
I've used Public Lumber several times and my experience is the same as
yours. I found they shipped promptly and the spruce I got was generally
quite good. It must be very dry, since I live in Colorado (generally less
than 30% relative humidity and often in the teens) and have had no warping.
Their milling services are also pretty good, and inexpensive as well. I
haven't actually had them do it, but I inquired if they could slice a 2 X 6
into 1/2" thick boards 6" wide and they said they could for their standard
ripping charge.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jrosson" <jrosson@symetrics.com>
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 12:37 PM
Subject: Falco-List: Sitka spruce source
> --> Falco-List message posted by: "jrosson" <jrosson@symetrics.com>
>
> Hi,
>
> One question I had when first getting really serious about building a
> plane was where to get the wood and plywood. These are expensive items
> that often require freight charges to ship. Not cheap.
>
> As I have a pretty complete woodworking shop, complete with planer,
> jointer and table saw, I was not averse to buying spruce in the rough in
> order to save money. I searched online and found Public Lumber Company
> (http://www.publiclumber.com/aasitsprucve.html). Two emails to them were
> never answered, which made leery of ordering due to possibly poor customer
> service, but the relatively low pricing caused me to give them a chance.
> I decided to order two pieces of spruce 1" by 8" by 5 feet, thinking that
> if the lumber was good, I could save a ton of money. If it wasn?Tt,
> well, hopefully I could at least make cap strips out it. Or a bird house.
>
> I called them up and ordered last Wednesday and am pleased to report that
> the wood arrived today in great condition. They charged me $15 for UPS
> ground shipping. The wood itself is 8.75" wide (not warped or bowed at
> all), a bit over .9? in thickness (with plenty to plane down to .75")
> and exactly 5' long. From what I can see, the grain is tight and
> straight, though maybe 2" of one side of one board has the grain running
> at 45 degrees, but then it quickly approaches 70 degrees or better over
> the rest of the span. All of the other board is at least 70 degrees. Oh,
> the growth rings are really tight, well above the minimum of 6 per inch.
> No knots or discolorations, though one board is quite darker overall than
> the other.
>
> I will plane the boards down later to get a better inspection, but my
> initial look is that the wood is indeed aircraft quality. At a price of
> $4.67 per linear foot, the price per board foot (bdft), assuming it is
> planed to .75" and 8.5" in width, is about $8.80. The price from the
> supplier we all know about for finished spruce .75" by 5.75" is over $22
> per bdft. To get stock over 6" requires a special order, and given that
> their 6" stock (.75" thick) is nearly $25 per bdft, you can see that I am
> a happy camper to have found this other source.
>
> Now, I still plan on using those other guys for the spar material, as I
> want to use certified wood there, but I am comfortable self-certifying
> wood for most of the other locations. I am a Professional Engineer (but
> not aero) if that makes a difference. Probably doesn?Tt.
>
> My only real concern at this point is how dry the wood is. The web site
> didn?Tt say if it was dried or not, and I didn?Tt think to ask. It does
> not look green by any means. My research finds the average weight of
> spruce dried to 12% moisture content is about 27 pounds per cubic foot,
> which is about 2.25 pounds per board foot. My spruce shipment weight in
> at 15 pounds, or about 2.2 pounds per bdft, so I guess my wood is
> reasonably dry after all, but I am not sure what it the ideal moisture
> content should be.
>
> I won't go so far as to give an unconditional recommendation to consider
> Public Lumber yet. I just got the wood here at work today and I have only
> inspected the outer two feet, and it is still in a rough state, so there
> may be problems. But what I see looks good. I will report back later on
> how it looks when cleaned up. But, I am happy with the service I
> received. I will reiterate that their wood is not ?ocertified?, so
> even if I were to give a recommendation, I would still have to advise
> caution about using it if you are not comfortable. In any case, I think
> this wood will be excellent to make cap strips and to use for
> non-structural applications for those who have the means and desire to
> mill it up. But, I suppose the use of wood that is not ?ocertified?
> might open up a can of worms in debate.
>
> As for a source of plywood, Aircraft Spruce seems to be the cheapest I
> have found, but it will still require freight. I hope to find a good
> source locally (Merritt Island, FL), and that will certainly be a question
> I will ask when I make it to an EAA meeting. Also, I have a friend
> traveling up to Atlanta soon and he said he would stop by the store up
> there and pick up some stuff for me.
>
> Hopes this helps others. If you disagree, chime in and get a debate
> going.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71166#71166
>
>
>
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