Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:17 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Craymondw@aol.com)
2. 10:32 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Konrad L. Werner)
3. 10:34 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (steve korney)
4. 10:39 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Bruce Gray)
5. 10:42 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Givan, Max)
6. 10:50 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (frequent flyer)
7. 11:24 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines (Dj Merrill)
8. 01:15 PM - Lycoming: So now we're "licensing" engines? (MPPalmer@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
Yes, I have one question. When my 325HP V8 North Star four over head cam
complicated cam drive gear and complex ignition and injector system wore out after
200,000 miles, GM quoted me roughly $10,000 for a crated brand new engine.
Why is it that a simple, dirty, sloppy tolerances, glorified Volkswagen 4
cylinder Lycoming engine with a cast iron cam with no roller tappets cost $30,000
new and a factory rebuilt engine brought up to factory new cost $17,000?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
Cost is directly related to production numbers. More unit's produced and
sold = lower cost/unit. But I am sure you knew that already!!!
So, why don't YOU put YOUR much lower cost 325HP V8 North Star four over
head cam complicated cam drive gear and complex ignition and injector
system into YOUR airplane instead of that simple, dirty, sloppy
tolerances, glorified Volkswagen 4 cylinder Lycoming engine with a cast
iron cam with no roller tappets?
It just makes sense, doesn't it?
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Craymondw@aol.com
To: glasair-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines
Yes, I have one question. When my 325HP V8 North Star four over head
cam complicated cam drive gear and complex ignition and injector system
wore out after 200,000 miles, GM quoted me roughly $10,000 for a crated
brand new engine. Why is it that a simple, dirty, sloppy tolerances,
glorified Volkswagen 4 cylinder Lycoming engine with a cast iron cam
with no roller tappets cost $30,000 new and a factory rebuilt engine
brought up to factory new cost $17,000?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
No virus found in this incoming message.
6/23/2006
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: "steve korney" <s_korney@hotmail.com>
FAA. attorneys, and judges...
Best... Steve
----Original Message Follows----
Yes, I have one question. When my 325HP V8 North Star four over head cam
complicated cam drive gear and complex ignition and injector system wore out
after
200,000 miles, GM quoted me roughly $10,000 for a crated brand new engine.
Why is it that a simple, dirty, sloppy tolerances, glorified Volkswagen 4
cylinder Lycoming engine with a cast iron cam with no roller tappets cost
$30,000
new and a factory rebuilt engine brought up to factory new cost $17,000?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
Simple, economics of scale. I would be supprised if Lycoming makes 5,000
new
engines a year. Detroit turns out hundreds of thousands.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Craymondw@aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 1:16 PM
Yes, I have one question. When my 325HP V8 North Star four over head cam
complicated cam drive gear and complex ignition and injector system wore
out
after 200,000 miles, GM quoted me roughly $10,000 for a crated brand new
engine. Why is it that a simple, dirty, sloppy tolerances, glorified
Volkswagen 4 cylinder Lycoming engine with a cast iron cam with no
roller
tappets cost $30,000 new and a factory rebuilt engine brought up to
factory
new cost $17,000?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
GM does not have to get the FAA to micro manage and approve their every
move. I figure that accounts for most of the price difference.
Lets stop giving the FAA any more money! The less money they have, the
less they can intrude into our lives. With free enterprise and no FAA,
our overall flying costs would decrease by at least the 66% we see in
this example. Next - the oil companies and producers!
________________________________
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Craymondw@aol.com
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:16 AM
Yes, I have one question. When my 325HP V8 North Star four over head cam
complicated cam drive gear and complex ignition and injector system wore
out after 200,000 miles, GM quoted me roughly $10,000 for a crated brand
new engine. Why is it that a simple, dirty, sloppy tolerances, glorified
Volkswagen 4 cylinder Lycoming engine with a cast iron cam with no
roller tappets cost $30,000 new and a factory rebuilt engine brought up
to factory new cost $17,000?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: frequent flyer <jdhcv@yahoo.com>
PRODUCT LIABILTY INSURANCE! Jack do not archive
--- steve korney <s_korney@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Glasair-List message posted by: "steve korney"
> <s_korney@hotmail.com>
>
> FAA. attorneys, and judges...
>
> Best... Steve
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
>
> Yes, I have one question. When my 325HP V8 North
> Star four over head cam
> complicated cam drive gear and complex ignition and
> injector system wore out
> after
> 200,000 miles, GM quoted me roughly $10,000 for a
> crated brand new engine.
> Why is it that a simple, dirty, sloppy tolerances,
> glorified Volkswagen 4
> cylinder Lycoming engine with a cast iron cam with
> no roller tappets cost
> $30,000
> new and a factory rebuilt engine brought up to
> factory new cost $17,000?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Engines |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Bruce Gray wrote:
> Simple, economics of scale. I would be supprised if Lycoming makes
> 5,000 new engines a year. Detroit turns out hundreds of thousands.
>
I agree that explains the diff. between the GM and Lyc products.
However, presuming his numbers are correct, I am still curious about his
actual question, which was "Why is it that a simple, dirty, sloppy
tolerances, glorified Volkswagen 4 cylinder Lycoming engine with a cast
iron cam with no roller tappets cost $30,000 new and a factory rebuilt
engine brought up to factory new cost $17,000?"
Why the $13k difference between what is essentially the same end
product? Are his numbers correct?
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 8
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| Subject: | Lycoming: So now we're "licensing" engines? |
Yikes. What schmoozing! (Man, that was one LONG press release.)
When Microsoft became a big player in software, the joke going around was
"What would it be like if GM sold cars the way Microsoft sells software?" Aside
from the ubiquitous "crashing" jokes, you would agree that you could only use
the car in certain way; that you wouldn't try to figure out how it worked or
modify the car; that it's not really your car anyway and that, if anything goes
wrong with "your" car, you can't sue GM. Your only remedy is to give the car
back to GM.
I was disappointed to see this "licensing" model trickle down to material
products when I bought parts from NewGlasair. We had to sign an agreement that
the parts weren't really mine, that I would only use them in ways approved by
NewGlasair, that I forfeit all legal remedies if the parts were bad, caused a
crash, etc. Even if GlasairAviation came out with an improved Glasair that was
30 kts faster, I wouldn't buy it with a licensing agreement.
So now Lycoming is going this way with some of their Thunderbolt engines? You
can only sell an engine with Lycoming's permission? So really, it's not your
engine, it's Lycoming's. They're just letting you borrow it.
We gotta get some common sense back on property rights and personal
responsibility. When I buy a hammer, it's my hammer. I can use it to nail as many
nails
as I want at my house or anyone else's. I can give it or sell it to anyone I
choose or use it in ways never approved by its manufacturer. (As a weapon, for
example, should a bad guy break into the house.)
So, no thanks Lycoming. I'll buy parts from Superior or ECi that are MY
parts. (And I won't have to wade through a pile of stuff when dealing with them.)
BTW, if Lycoming is really interested in the Voice of the Customer, it might
want to offer an 800 number for its Thunderbolt Manager.
Mike Palmer <><
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