Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:10 PM - Re: Glasair-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/04/06 (Craymondw@aol.com)
2. 01:12 PM - Re: Glasair-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/03/06 (Craymondw@aol.com)
3. 01:16 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Craymondw@aol.com)
4. 01:23 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Craymondw@aol.com)
5. 01:38 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Kevin Williams)
6. 01:39 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Bruce Gray)
7. 01:44 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Dj Merrill)
8. 01:45 PM - Re: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/04/06 (Dj Merrill)
9. 01:51 PM - Re: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/03/06 (Dj Merrill)
10. 01:55 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Dj Merrill)
11. 02:04 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Kevin Williams)
12. 02:35 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Bruce Gray)
13. 05:36 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (noel anderson)
14. 05:51 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Craymondw@aol.com)
15. 06:28 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Craymondw@aol.com)
16. 08:25 PM - Re: Sportsman 2+2 (Steve Kean)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/04/06 |
Why doesn't Glasair design a high performance plane like the Legacy and sell
it at a cheaper price? I can't understand anyone going through the expense and
pain of building a plane that doesn't far out perform a factory built plane.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/03/06 |
The so called "passion" of building a plane completetly wears out and 90% of
the kits are never completed.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
I once asked the owner of Van's aircraft why his kits are so cheap. His reply
was why was everyone else's kits where so expensive!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that
homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU at very a
reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these expensive kit
manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the boost it needed. I feel these
sky
high kit prices will eventually bring about the collapse of many of these high
price kit companies.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18@hotmail.com>
Kevin
Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, Canada
All excellent points.
From: Craymondw@aol.com
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Sportsman 2+2
The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that
homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU at
very a
reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these expensive kit
manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the boost it needed. I
feel these sky
high kit prices will eventually bring about the collapse of many of these
high
price kit companies.
Message 6
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Perhaps you just don't have the economic muscle or persistance to be a
kit
builder.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Craymondw@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Sportsman 2+2
The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that
homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU at
very a reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these
expensive
kit manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the boost it
needed. I
feel these sky high kit prices will eventually bring about the collapse
of
many of these high price kit companies.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Craymondw@aol.com wrote:
> I once asked the owner of Van's aircraft why his kits are so cheap.
> His reply was why was everyone else's kits where so expensive!
> *
> *
Van's doesn't sell an airplane that matches what I want. Somehow I
can't see an RV-10 on floats or landing on a rough short strip... :-)
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 09/04/06 |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Craymondw@aol.com wrote:
> Why doesn't Glasair design a high performance plane like the Legacy
> and sell it at a cheaper price? I can't understand anyone going
> through the expense and pain of building a plane that doesn't far out
> perform a factory built plane.
Because it is not all about performance.
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 09/03/06 |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Craymondw@aol.com wrote:
> The so called "passion" of building a plane completetly wears out and
> 90% of the kits are never completed.
I think that it used to be a high number (but I'm not convinced it
was 90%), but with today's pre-punched kits, things go together a lot
easier. The kit may not be completed by the original purchaser, but I
think we are seeing a much higher completion rate of kit airplanes today
than we did 10 years ago, even if the kit changes hands a couple of times.
I'm in the process of selling my flying Glasair 1 FT in order to
devote my time and money to completing the Sportsman kit. I might be
nuts, but I know I can't afford both, and the Sportsman represents the
type of flying I want to do compared to the Glasair, FWIW.
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Craymondw@aol.com wrote:
> The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that
> homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU
> at very a reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these
> expensive kit manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the
> boost it needed. I feel these sky high kit prices will eventually
> bring about the collapse of many of these high price kit companies.
*shrug* So perhaps the Thorpe is a better choice for you as a
kitplane. A friend of mine is building a Sonex due to its relatively
low cost. I don't think any more or less of him because he isn't
building a Glasair Aviation product. There are enough different types
of kitplanes out there to satisfy most everyone's needs/wants.
Now, when there is a kit that is both a car and an airplane, I might
have to seriously reconsider my selection! *grin*
-Dj
do not archive
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/
"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane." --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005
Message 11
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--> Glasair-List message posted by: "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18@hotmail.com>
What kind of pathetic insult is that? Economic muscle? Maybe the next
e-mail will poke fun at my small manhood. Please, try and be a bit more
intelligent in your debate and responses.
$40,000 for a bare bones kit is steep in my opinion and it has nothing to do
with how much money I have to spend, it has to do with $40,000 not being
reflective of what you get which is a bit of fiberglass and tubing.
Compare what type of car you could buy for $40,000 and you begin to see what
I mean.
In reality the kit has maybe $5000-$7000 worth of material. Even if the
price was doubled to $14000 for a nice heft profit margin it still doesn't
come close to the sticker price.
I'm not pooh poohing on kits, I like kits. I'm suggesting that if kit
builders continue to raise prices then sooner or later people will be faced
with the same situation as factory aircraft and that is a plane that is just
to cost prohibitive to build.
Saving money on maintenance is irrelevant if you cant afford to start or
finish the kit.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Craymondw@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Sportsman 2+2
The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that
homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU at
very a reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these expensive
kit manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the boost it needed. I
feel these sky high kit prices will eventually bring about the collapse of
many of these high price kit companies.
Message 12
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--> Glasair-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
If you have to ask the price, you can't afford to play.
As a general rule of thumb, any manufacturer has to charge 3 times the cost
of finished goods to stay in business. That's without covering all the R&D
money it takes to develop the product.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Williams
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 5:04 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Sportsman 2+2
--> Glasair-List message posted by: "Kevin Williams"
<kevinsky18@hotmail.com>
What kind of pathetic insult is that? Economic muscle? Maybe the next
e-mail will poke fun at my small manhood. Please, try and be a bit more
intelligent in your debate and responses.
$40,000 for a bare bones kit is steep in my opinion and it has nothing to do
with how much money I have to spend, it has to do with $40,000 not being
reflective of what you get which is a bit of fiberglass and tubing.
Compare what type of car you could buy for $40,000 and you begin to see what
I mean.
In reality the kit has maybe $5000-$7000 worth of material. Even if the
price was doubled to $14000 for a nice heft profit margin it still doesn't
come close to the sticker price.
I'm not pooh poohing on kits, I like kits. I'm suggesting that if kit
builders continue to raise prices then sooner or later people will be faced
with the same situation as factory aircraft and that is a plane that is just
to cost prohibitive to build.
Saving money on maintenance is irrelevant if you can't afford to start or
finish the kit.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Craymondw@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Sportsman 2+2
The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that
homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU at
very a reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these expensive
kit manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the boost it needed. I
feel these sky high kit prices will eventually bring about the collapse of
many of these high price kit companies.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
--> Glasair-List message posted by: "noel anderson" <nandrand@xtra.co.nz>
Bruce. Well said!!! It's the old saying," Make sure brain is engaged, before
opperating mouth"!!! Regards to all. Noel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 9:04 AM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Sportsman 2+2
> --> Glasair-List message posted by: "Kevin Williams"
> <kevinsky18@hotmail.com>
>
> What kind of pathetic insult is that? Economic muscle? Maybe the next
> e-mail will poke fun at my small manhood. Please, try and be a bit more
> intelligent in your debate and responses.
>
> $40,000 for a bare bones kit is steep in my opinion and it has nothing to
> do with how much money I have to spend, it has to do with $40,000 not
> being reflective of what you get which is a bit of fiberglass and tubing.
>
> Compare what type of car you could buy for $40,000 and you begin to see
> what I mean.
>
> In reality the kit has maybe $5000-$7000 worth of material. Even if the
> price was doubled to $14000 for a nice heft profit margin it still doesn't
> come close to the sticker price.
>
> I'm not pooh poohing on kits, I like kits. I'm suggesting that if kit
> builders continue to raise prices then sooner or later people will be
> faced with the same situation as factory aircraft and that is a plane that
> is just to cost prohibitive to build.
>
> Saving money on maintenance is irrelevant if you can't afford to start or
> finish the kit.
>
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Craymondw@aol.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 4:24 PM
> To: glasair-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Sportsman 2+2
>
>
> The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that
> homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU at
> very a reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these
> expensive
> kit manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the boost it needed.
> I
> feel these sky high kit prices will eventually bring about the collapse of
> many of these high price kit companies.
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
I built an Oshkosh winning Glasair and I completed it in ten months...so kiss
my sweet a....
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
Dear Bruce Gray,
Read the "Millionaire Next Door" and tell me that self made
millionaires don't ever ask the price! Only a fool would never ask the price. If
no one
asked the price, one could charge anything they want. First of all you need a
course in public relations because with smart ass replies like yours Glasair
corporation will certainly fail. You have no idea how much wealth me and my
family has or any one else for that matter. Secondly, I completed my Glasair in
1991 and had close to $95,000 in it and have since averaged twenty vacations a
year in the plane with our most recent flight from Atlanta to Durango
Colorado. My wife and I surpass the yearly time flown a year by the average aircraft
owner in just in a few weeks time. My brother and I are now looking into the
feasibility of building a landing strip on 350 family owned acres in the
Washington, DC suburbs. My other toys at the time of completion was an unlimited
S1S Pitts Special and a brand new Porsche and my wife now gets to ride around in
a Ferrari F430 Spider.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sportsman 2+2 |
Sorry I kicked the "kit-cost" tire. Just wanted to see who's out
there!
----- Original Message -----
From: Craymondw@aol.com
To: glasair-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Sportsman 2+2
I built an Oshkosh winning Glasair and I completed it in ten
months...so kiss my sweet a....
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