Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:03 AM - Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07 (Byron Covey)
2. 03:03 AM - Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07 (Byron Covey)
3. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07 (Craymondw@aol.com)
4. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07 (Jack Hilditch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07 |
Hello:
I'm new here on this list server. (I usually monitor the Glasair News web
site.)
I'm building a Super II-FT and I would also be interested in seeing photos
of your modifications.
Thank you.
Byron Covey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glasair-List Digest Server" <glasair-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:56 AM
Subject: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Glasair-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Glasair-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-05-30&Archive=Glasair
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-05-30&Archive=Glasair
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Glasair-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 05/30/07: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:28 AM - Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07 (John
> Markey)
> 2. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
> (Craymondw@aol.com)
> 3. 01:56 PM - Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
> (MPPalmer@aol.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:28:11 AM PST US
> From: John Markey <markeypilot@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Glasair-List: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
>
> Would you mind sending me digital pictures of the fairing and engine
> cowling inlet/outlet
> mods?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
> GII FT
>
>
> Then I started a long string of modifications. In 1996 I repainted the
> craft and
> made
> further mods (closing the cooling inlets, closing the engine inlet,
> changing
> the strut fairings, bringing up the flap setting etc) bringing the cruise
> up to 200 mph. Racers have informed me that the "Y's" on the landing gear
> create drag. Some say the wheel pants are not designed well. My biggest
> increase
> came from installing a set of experimental only Airflow Performance .028
> Injector Nozzles (They are located in Spartanburg N.C.) that added another
> 6 mph
> bringing the cruise up to 206.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
> Games.
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:03:19 AM PST US
> From: Craymondw@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
>
> Hi,
> I closed up the inlets by an inch. My cylinder head temperatures now
> range around 325 degrees. You have to also bring the outlets forward or
> you will
>
> build a flat area that will buffet. I air foiled the inside top inlet to
> smoothen out the air flow. The engine breather inlet was shortened by
> well over
>
> two inches in height. I found more air went in than was required and was
> spilled out resulting in a slight oil streak of air filter fluid on the
> cowling.
>
> Racer Ken Johnson has formulas for engine breather and cooling inlet/ out
> let
>
> ratios.
> Note: the flaps should be reflexed a few degrees. My ailerons are
> around
> zero. I also used tape under cowling joints to fair them up even with the
> fuselage. For the main wheel pants, I hung plumb bobs off the tail and
> wing
> center and drew a center line on the floor. Then I used a steel measure to
> align
>
> the wheel pants parallel to that center line, doing that added a few
> knots. A
>
> friend sawed off his wing fairing's and picked up a few knots. I was told
> by
> a Stoddard Hamilton engineer that the wing fairing's worked against you.
> A Swiss builder used 2" X 6" strakes on the fuselage about one inch in
> front of the leading edge of the wings and claimed he added a few knots.
> That
>
> area is poorly designed and when 3's go over 300 mph a buffeting sound
> can be
>
> heard in that area. Formula one Reno racers feel the dirtiest part of Gl
> Ft's are the "Y's" between the fuselage and the wheel pants. Cirrus
> aircraft has
>
> well designed fairing's in those areas.
> When I complained to New Glasair that further factory development on
> the
> Glasair 2's and 3's has come to an end, they replied how wonderful that
> builder's where performing them??!! I feel the new owners have dropped
> the ball
>
> and let Lancair march ahead. There are known design flaws on both Glasair
> models and also much lighter composite material could be employed. When I
> lived
> in
> New England a good friend from Germany and expert in composite design
> looked
> at my parts and said; "what are you building..a tank!!" A young Stoddard
> Hamilton engineer presented an all carbon fiber wing at Oshkosh that was
> longer
>
> that the three wing. I was able to pick that wing up with one hand. Gl 2
> & 3
>
> wings take two strong men to carry. I was about to reproduce modified
> Glasair models in carbon fiber when a business opportunity in Georgia came
> up.
> At
> the time my German friend's brother ran the Black Hawk Division of
> Sykorsky
> that had developed using multi layered pre preg composite sheets,
> stamping out
>
> parts and heat curing them in molds. This took out the labor intensive
> lay
> up work and greatly reduced Sykorsky's production costs. We were about to
> make molds out of a thin ceramic material backed by ply wood to heat cure
> fuselage, wing skins, cowlings, aileron skins, and flap skins that we
> planned
> on
> quickly cutting out with lazers. We estimated we could reduce the weight
> of
> both models by several hundred pounds. To give you some idea of how heavy
> Glasair parts are. I weighed the tail feathers of an RV 4 and just the
> Glasair
>
> rudder alone weighed more than the complete empennage of the RV 4. We
> estimated
>
> that by reducing a Glasair's weight several hundred pounds a 160 hp
> would
> have nearly the same performance of a much heavier Glasair with a 200 hp
> engine.
> An Eglin Airforce base officer built a Glasair 2 FT that cruises 220
> mph
> and installed a McCauley prop. He completed the plane in 1992 and claims
> when he goes side by side with Gl2 RG' he has never been beaten. My
> Hartzell
> works up to 2375 RPM. When I turn up the RPM the plane actually goes
> slower!
> That tells me that there is a turbulence problem with the prop design.
> Back in the 1980's I owned a T-18. At the time, T-18's where considered
> "Hot Rods." Now the T-18 is considered old technology. I am afraid that
> if
> factory modifications and new production techniques aren't deployed on
> the
> Glasair 2's and 3's, not only will they become has been's, they will also
> be very
>
> expensive kits to buy. Some one will surely tool up a pre preg heat cured
> mold
>
> kit production and greatly reduce the costs and the rest will be history.
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:56:43 PM PST US
> From: MPPalmer@aol.com
> Subject: Glasair-List: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
>
> I haven't done much in the way of speed mods... I have slightly smaller
> inlets and reflexed the flaps. (And have a funky augmenter exhaust system
> from
> day
> one.)
>
> Reflexing the flaps gave me about 2 to 3 knots. I also went with Van's
> pressure recovery wheel pants on the mains, and picked up 4 to 5 knots,
> although
> my
> old Glasair wheel pants were very crummy, so YMMV. I did some oil testing
> on
> the wheel pant / gear leg fairing, and that was a real surprise. There's a
> lot
>
> of weird stuff going on down there that's not intuitively obvious to this
> guy.
>
> Long story short, I seem to have interactively stumbled onto an
> intersection
>fairing that keeps most of the airflow attached there. I would like to try
> Van's pressure recover nose gear someday. I think that's probably worth a
> few
> knots, being up there in the accelerated propellor airflow.
>
> We have been seeing an honest 200 mph (174 kts) True at 4000 ft in the
> Arizona heat running full throttle, 2700 rpm, best power mixture (10 GPH)
> on a
>
> slightly tricked out O-320. (9:1 pistons, PLASMA ignition, some porting
> with the
>
> valves). Just had a 5 angle valve job done and are still gathering data on
> that.
>
> In theory, it should go a bit faster now, albeit on more fuel.
>
> I've heard reports that taking off the Glasair cosmetic wing fairing is
> worth
> a few knots. But haven't tried it.
>
> While it's nice to go fast, it's mostly a guy thing. We took off in front
> of
> a guy who stuffed a 540 in his Glasair II RG. Unbeknownst to us, he was
> going
> to the same airshow as we were. He took off #2 but called on the UNICOM
> ten
> minutes ahead of us, in a one hour trip. (Slightly different courses.) We
> burn
>
> 7.2 GPH, LOP and see 165 kts. He throttles back to 11 GPH and sees 215
> kts. (!)
>
> He has two extra cylinders that cost that much more money. For ten minutes
> and bragging rights, he can have it. When IFR, I'll take the extra
> endurance
> over speed any day. If you can do it, the best way to go fast is to reduce
> drag
>
> and clean up your existing engine. Especially with AvGas in the $4 to $5
> range.
>
> Mike Palmer <><<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> See
> what's
> free at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07 |
Hello:
I'm new here on this list server. (I usually monitor the Glasair News web
site.)
I'm building a Super II-FT and I would also be interested in seeing photos
of your modifications.
Thank you.
Byron Covey
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glasair-List Digest Server" <glasair-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:56 AM
Subject: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Glasair-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Glasair-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 07-05-30&Archive=Glasair
>
> Text Version:
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 07-05-30&Archive=Glasair
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Glasair-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 05/30/07: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:28 AM - Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07 (John
> Markey)
> 2. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
> (Craymondw@aol.com)
> 3. 01:56 PM - Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
> (MPPalmer@aol.com)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:28:11 AM PST US
> From: John Markey <markeypilot@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Glasair-List: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
>
> Would you mind sending me digital pictures of the fairing and engine
> cowling inlet/outlet
> mods?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
> GII FT
>
>
> Then I started a long string of modifications. In 1996 I repainted the
> craft and
> made
> further mods (closing the cooling inlets, closing the engine inlet,
> changing
> the strut fairings, bringing up the flap setting etc) bringing the cruise
> up to 200 mph. Racers have informed me that the "Y's" on the landing gear
> create drag. Some say the wheel pants are not designed well. My biggest
> increase
> came from installing a set of experimental only Airflow Performance .028
> Injector Nozzles (They are located in Spartanburg N.C.) that added another
> 6 mph
> bringing the cruise up to 206.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
> Games.
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:03:19 AM PST US
> From: Craymondw@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
>
> Hi,
> I closed up the inlets by an inch. My cylinder head temperatures now
> range around 325 degrees. You have to also bring the outlets forward or
> you will
>
> build a flat area that will buffet. I air foiled the inside top inlet to
> smoothen out the air flow. The engine breather inlet was shortened by
> well over
>
> two inches in height. I found more air went in than was required and was
> spilled out resulting in a slight oil streak of air filter fluid on the
> cowling.
>
> Racer Ken Johnson has formulas for engine breather and cooling inlet/ out
> let
>
> ratios.
> Note: the flaps should be reflexed a few degrees. My ailerons are
> around
> zero. I also used tape under cowling joints to fair them up even with the
> fuselage. For the main wheel pants, I hung plumb bobs off the tail and
> wing
> center and drew a center line on the floor. Then I used a steel measure to
> align
>
> the wheel pants parallel to that center line, doing that added a few
> knots. A
>
> friend sawed off his wing fairing's and picked up a few knots. I was told
> by
> a Stoddard Hamilton engineer that the wing fairing's worked against you.
> A Swiss builder used 2" X 6" strakes on the fuselage about one inch in
> front of the leading edge of the wings and claimed he added a few knots.
> That
>
> area is poorly designed and when 3's go over 300 mph a buffeting sound
> can be
>
> heard in that area. Formula one Reno racers feel the dirtiest part of Gl
> Ft's are the "Y's" between the fuselage and the wheel pants. Cirrus
> aircraft has
>
> well designed fairing's in those areas.
> When I complained to New Glasair that further factory development on
> the
> Glasair 2's and 3's has come to an end, they replied how wonderful that
> builder's where performing them??!! I feel the new owners have dropped
> the ball
>
> and let Lancair march ahead. There are known design flaws on both Glasair
> models and also much lighter composite material could be employed. When I
> lived
> in
> New England a good friend from Germany and expert in composite design
> looked
> at my parts and said; "what are you building..a tank!!" A young Stoddard
> Hamilton engineer presented an all carbon fiber wing at Oshkosh that was
> longer
>
> that the three wing. I was able to pick that wing up with one hand. Gl 2
> & 3
>
> wings take two strong men to carry. I was about to reproduce modified
> Glasair models in carbon fiber when a business opportunity in Georgia came
> up.
> At
> the time my German friend's brother ran the Black Hawk Division of
> Sykorsky
> that had developed using multi layered pre preg composite sheets,
> stamping out
>
> parts and heat curing them in molds. This took out the labor intensive
> lay
> up work and greatly reduced Sykorsky's production costs. We were about to
> make molds out of a thin ceramic material backed by ply wood to heat cure
> fuselage, wing skins, cowlings, aileron skins, and flap skins that we
> planned
> on
> quickly cutting out with lazers. We estimated we could reduce the weight
> of
> both models by several hundred pounds. To give you some idea of how heavy
> Glasair parts are. I weighed the tail feathers of an RV 4 and just the
> Glasair
>
> rudder alone weighed more than the complete empennage of the RV 4. We
> estimated
>
> that by reducing a Glasair's weight several hundred pounds a 160 hp
> would
> have nearly the same performance of a much heavier Glasair with a 200 hp
> engine.
> An Eglin Airforce base officer built a Glasair 2 FT that cruises 220
> mph
> and installed a McCauley prop. He completed the plane in 1992 and claims
> when he goes side by side with Gl2 RG' he has never been beaten. My
> Hartzell
> works up to 2375 RPM. When I turn up the RPM the plane actually goes
> slower!
> That tells me that there is a turbulence problem with the prop design.
> Back in the 1980's I owned a T-18. At the time, T-18's where considered
> "Hot Rods." Now the T-18 is considered old technology. I am afraid that
> if
> factory modifications and new production techniques aren't deployed on
> the
> Glasair 2's and 3's, not only will they become has been's, they will also
> be very
>
> expensive kits to buy. Some one will surely tool up a pre preg heat cured
> mold
>
> kit production and greatly reduce the costs and the rest will be history.
>
>
> ************************************** See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:56:43 PM PST US
> From: MPPalmer@aol.com
> Subject: Glasair-List: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 05/29/07
>
> I haven't done much in the way of speed mods... I have slightly smaller
> inlets and reflexed the flaps. (And have a funky augmenter exhaust system
> from
> day
> one.)
>
> Reflexing the flaps gave me about 2 to 3 knots. I also went with Van's
> pressure recovery wheel pants on the mains, and picked up 4 to 5 knots,
> although
> my
> old Glasair wheel pants were very crummy, so YMMV. I did some oil testing
> on
> the wheel pant / gear leg fairing, and that was a real surprise. There's a
> lot
>
> of weird stuff going on down there that's not intuitively obvious to this
> guy.
>
> Long story short, I seem to have interactively stumbled onto an
> intersection
>fairing that keeps most of the airflow attached there. I would like to try
> Van's pressure recover nose gear someday. I think that's probably worth a
> few
> knots, being up there in the accelerated propellor airflow.
>
> We have been seeing an honest 200 mph (174 kts) True at 4000 ft in the
> Arizona heat running full throttle, 2700 rpm, best power mixture (10 GPH)
> on a
>
> slightly tricked out O-320. (9:1 pistons, PLASMA ignition, some porting
> with the
>
> valves). Just had a 5 angle valve job done and are still gathering data on
> that.
>
> In theory, it should go a bit faster now, albeit on more fuel.
>
> I've heard reports that taking off the Glasair cosmetic wing fairing is
> worth
> a few knots. But haven't tried it.
>
> While it's nice to go fast, it's mostly a guy thing. We took off in front
> of
> a guy who stuffed a 540 in his Glasair II RG. Unbeknownst to us, he was
> going
> to the same airshow as we were. He took off #2 but called on the UNICOM
> ten
> minutes ahead of us, in a one hour trip. (Slightly different courses.) We
> burn
>
> 7.2 GPH, LOP and see 165 kts. He throttles back to 11 GPH and sees 215
> kts. (!)
>
> He has two extra cylinders that cost that much more money. For ten minutes
> and bragging rights, he can have it. When IFR, I'll take the extra
> endurance
> over speed any day. If you can do it, the best way to go fast is to reduce
> drag
>
> and clean up your existing engine. Especially with AvGas in the $4 to $5
> range.
>
> Mike Palmer <><<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> See
> what's
> free at
> http://www.aol.com.
>
>
>
Message 3
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|
| Subject: | Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07 |
Where did you get the intersection fairing for the landing gear? How much do
a set of Van's wheel pants run? I wish Van would produce a composite high
performance plane kit. Van is a hustler. There is no doubt that he would
employ using three layer composite pre preg that would be laser cut and heat cured
in inexpensive ceramic molds. By doing that, Van would be the first to
offer composite kits for less than half of what present kits run and would put
all the old hand lay kit manufactures out of business. That German friend I
told you about, with my help, produced a finished plug of an RV 4 and we where
going to offer composite kits of that model. He decided to nix the idea after
his lawyer informed him that producing it in his yacht production works would
create a liability problem.
After owning several aluminum aircraft, I swore I would never own
another one. I don't like Aluminum because it cracks and corrodes. But Van
doesn't sit back and let his designs become obsolete, he looks for ways to
increase performance on his craft. If Van were to reproduce his line in glass
he
would add several knots to cruise speeds.
I have to agree with you about Glasair 3's. I have flown several of them
and I feel they are too damn heavy. I think a modified light weight carbon
fiber Glasair 2 RG sporting the new IO 360 215 HP engine would offer the same
performance as a Gl 3. I am surprised that Pheonix composites hasn't made
molds to produce a carbon fiber version. Sooner or later somebody is going to.
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Message 4
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07 |
Algie Composite Aircraft may be just what you are looking for. David Algie came
from the F-1 racing world and has been at OSH the past couple of years. You can
find more about his Carbon aircraft at this URL:
http://members.iquest.net/~aca/photos.htm
_____
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craymondw@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Re: Glasair-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/30/07
Where did you get the intersection fairing for the landing gear? How much do a
set of Van's wheel pants run? I wish Van would produce a composite high
performance plane kit. Van is a hustler. There is no doubt that he would employ
using three layer composite pre preg that would be laser cut and heat cured in
inexpensive ceramic molds. By doing that, Van would be the first to offer
composite kits for less than half of what present kits run and would put all the
old hand lay kit manufactures out of business. That German friend I told you
about, with my help, produced a finished plug of an RV 4 and we where going to
offer composite kits of that model. He decided to nix the idea after his lawyer
informed him that producing it in his yacht production works would create a
liability problem.
After owning several aluminum aircraft, I swore I would never own another
one. I don't like Aluminum because it cracks and corrodes. But Van doesn't sit
back and let his designs become obsolete, he looks for ways to increase
performance on his craft. If Van were to reproduce his line in glass he would
add several knots to cruise speeds.
I have to agree with you about Glasair 3's. I have flown several of them and
I feel they are too damn heavy. I think a modified light weight carbon fiber
Glasair 2 RG sporting the new IO 360 215 HP engine would offer the same
performance as a Gl 3. I am surprised that Pheonix composites hasn't made molds
to produce a carbon fiber version. Sooner or later somebody is going to.
_____
See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> .
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