Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:48 AM - FS:Trutrak autopilot (Tad Sargent)
2. 07:33 AM - Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot (Robert Buckthal)
3. 08:56 AM - Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot (Dj Merrill)
4. 12:46 PM - Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot (Bruce Gray)
5. 01:39 PM - Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot (Doug Dodson)
6. 06:17 PM - Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot (Dj Merrill)
7. 07:01 PM - Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot (Doug Dodson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | FS:Trutrak autopilot |
Digitrak
http://www.trutrakap.com/products/Digitrak.html
Fits Standard 2.25" Round Hole
Built-in Ground Track DG
Track Select Mode
GPS Nav Mode
Control Wheel Steering
12 Volts only
New DT2 - $1,600
This unit has been used for 123 hours. I bought it from a friend and I
intended to install it in the RV8 I am building, my partner does not want an
A/P in the plane.
Asking price $1300.00 for a barely used unit
call 704-591-2035
Tad Sargent
TeamRV
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot |
Tad
You need to get a new partner. The auto pilot is necessary for safe
operation of your airplane. You really should not fly without one.
Bob
On Saturday, July 31, 2010, Tad Sargent <tadsargent@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
> Digitrak
> http://www.trutrakap.com/products/Digitrak.html
>
> Fits Standard 2.25 Round Hole
> Built-in Ground Track DG
> Track Select Mode
> GPS Nav Mode
> Control Wheel Steering
> 12 Volts only
> New DT2 - $1,600
>
> This unit has been used for 123 hours. I bought it from a friend and I intended
> to install it in the RV8 I am building, my partner does not want an A/P in the
> plane.
>
> Asking price $1300.00 for a barely used unit
> call 704-591-2035
>
> Tad Sargent
> TeamRV
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot |
On 7/31/2010 10:32 AM, Robert Buckthal wrote:
>
> Tad
> You need to get a new partner. The auto pilot is necessary for safe
> operation of your airplane. You really should not fly without one.
Okay, I'll bite. How is it "necessary"?
None of the airplanes I've owned have had autopilots, and I've seen
plenty of RV8s flying without them, and they all appear to be flying
safely...
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Join us on the New England Aviation Forums - http://forum.deej.net/
Message 4
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| Subject: | FS:Trutrak autopilot |
While the pilot work load level flying any Glasair VFR is low, the work
load goes up 5 fold flying IFR. If a pilot has everything nailed and
doesn't need to hunt for a chart or approach plate, it's doable.
Anything else and you're in deep sh*t. An autopilot is a go/nogo item
for IFR in a Glasair.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: FS:Trutrak autopilot
On 7/31/2010 10:32 AM, Robert Buckthal wrote:
<rbuckthal@gmail.com>
>
> Tad
> You need to get a new partner. The auto pilot is necessary for safe
> operation of your airplane. You really should not fly without one.
Okay, I'll bite. How is it "necessary"?
None of the airplanes I've owned have had autopilots, and I've
seen
plenty of RV8s flying without them, and they all appear to be flying
safely...
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Join us on the New England Aviation Forums - http://forum.deej.net/
Message 5
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| Subject: | FS:Trutrak autopilot |
I wouldn't say it quite as firmly as Bruce, but I agree with him. I learned
to fly without a headset. Now I wouldn't fly without one with noise
canceling. It is a health and a safety issue. I am much better off with
the headset and the technology has made it available in my price range.
Autopilot technology has trickled down to us nicely in the digital age. It
is hard to fine a new airplane without an autopilot these days. The
venerable C-172 is only manufactured with the G1000. Nearly every one has
the GFC 700 autopilot because the price bump is relatively small. This is a
2 axis autopilot that can fly GPS derived step-downs, and track ILS and GPS
vertical guidance. IN A C-172!
We have 4 C-172's in our flight school. Every one of them has an autopilot
(only one has a G1000). Every one who learns to fly at our school does so
with an autopilot equipped aircraft, and a skill set to use it in certain
emergency situations. Use beyond that is of course, up to the pilot.
My point is you have little or no experience with autopilots so you don't
appreciate what they bring to convenience and safety. If you have the
space, weight and fiscal allowance, and autopilot will be as good an
addition to your capability as a noise canceling headset.
Doug Dodson
Glasair II-S FT
Flight Test Engineer, CFI-A/S&MEL/I/G
Chief Instructor, Edwards AFB Aero Club
While the pilot work load level flying any Glasair VFR is low, the work
load goes up 5 fold flying IFR. If a pilot has everything nailed and
doesn't need to hunt for a chart or approach plate, it's doable.
Anything else and you're in deep sh*t. An autopilot is a go/nogo item
for IFR in a Glasair.
Bruce
www.Glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: FS:Trutrak autopilot
On 7/31/2010 10:32 AM, Robert Buckthal wrote:
<rbuckthal@gmail.com>
>
> Tad
> You need to get a new partner. The auto pilot is necessary for safe
> operation of your airplane. You really should not fly without one.
Okay, I'll bite. How is it "necessary"?
None of the airplanes I've owned have had autopilots, and I've
seen
plenty of RV8s flying without them, and they all appear to be flying
safely...
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Join us on the New England Aviation Forums - http://forum.deej.net/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FS:Trutrak autopilot |
On 7/31/2010 4:39 PM, Doug Dodson wrote:
> My point is you have little or no experience with autopilots so you don't
> appreciate what they bring to convenience and safety.
Hi Doug,
I'll try not to take offense at your presumption of my knowledge, but
the point is that an autopilot is not a required item to fly an airplane
safely. Yes, they may add to the airplane, much like a glass panel, but
are not necessary.
I'd make the argument that if a person is relying on an autopilot for
safe operation, their stick and rudder skills are quite likely not at
the level they should be...
Bruce makes a good point about IFR flight (whether it be a Glasair or
the RV-8 the original poster wrote about). The original poster didn't
mention how their RV-8 would be used, but most RV-8s that I am aware of
are used for VFR pleasure flight and aerobatics, both cases where hand
flying the airplane is far more pleasurable than letting George do the
flying.
Personally, if I already had the autopilot, I'd spend the effort to
convince my partner to install it. They don't have to use it if it is
there, but it might be useful on occasion. The only downside I can
think of is a slight bit of extra weight, and possibly a slight extra
drag on the control stick depending on the servo type.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Join us on the New England Aviation Forums - http://forum.deej.net/
Message 7
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| Subject: | FS:Trutrak autopilot |
No offense intended. I didn't actually realize I replied to someone other
than the original poster, whose experience I really don't know either. My
presumption of experience was based on this comment:
"None of the airplanes I've owned have had autopilots..."
Of course, it was a presumption. Many items are not "required", but safety
is a relative term. All of the airplanes I have owned have had autopilots.
I have actually owned only one and that was a 1966 Mooney M0. The autopilot
was far from sophisticated but very useful for the way I employed the
aircraft. My current ride, a borrowed 1956 Bonanza, has no autopilot and it
can get tedious for anything but the 20 minute $100 hamburger run. It has
proved to me the points I am making here.
The benefits of an autopilot have nothing whatsoever to do with stick and
rudder skills. Stick and rudder skills are for landing the plane. Stick
and rudder skills require a tremendous workload when exercised for high
accuracy tasks. Autopilots simply relieve workload to allow focus on other,
sometimes life critical tasks in low gain flight conditions (moderate gain
tasks such as an ILS require more sophisticated and more expensive
autopilots.
Anyway, unless the airplane is going to spend [insert some high percentage
number] of its time within 1 hour of home station, or a purpose built
aerobat, or some other very specific exceptional design mission, then in a
modern world an autopilot has practical safety value.
I would be hard pressed (I try to never say never) to be convinced that an
autopilot in a glider is a good idea, but an airplane like a Glasair or RV-8
would almost certainly have increased utility and increased safety with an
autopilot. Many RV-8's are used for long distance cross-country with a
passenger. "Most" are probably do a good mix of local pleasure flying and
travel.
The safety feature is realized in its zenith in the all too common VFR in
IMC scenario. I'll take a wing leveler over a BRS any day (there is a can
of worms, feel free to leave it un-opened). I teach escape strategies to my
primary students at our school. "Students" also includes renter pilots
doing recurring checks. No commercial or instrument pilot gets away without
demonstrating full proficiency in autopilot operations, limitations and
techniques.
And they have to do all of the tasks without the autopilot too.
Summarizing, safety is a relative term, autopilots improve safety in many
circumstances not limited to advanced certificates, and they are light and
not as expensive as they used to be.
- Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: FS:Trutrak autopilot
On 7/31/2010 4:39 PM, Doug Dodson wrote:
> My point is you have little or no experience with autopilots so you don't
> appreciate what they bring to convenience and safety.
Hi Doug,
I'll try not to take offense at your presumption of my knowledge,
but
the point is that an autopilot is not a required item to fly an airplane
safely. Yes, they may add to the airplane, much like a glass panel, but
are not necessary.
I'd make the argument that if a person is relying on an autopilot
for
safe operation, their stick and rudder skills are quite likely not at
the level they should be...
Bruce makes a good point about IFR flight (whether it be a Glasair
or
the RV-8 the original poster wrote about). The original poster didn't
mention how their RV-8 would be used, but most RV-8s that I am aware of
are used for VFR pleasure flight and aerobatics, both cases where hand
flying the airplane is far more pleasurable than letting George do the
flying.
Personally, if I already had the autopilot, I'd spend the effort to
convince my partner to install it. They don't have to use it if it is
there, but it might be useful on occasion. The only downside I can
think of is a slight bit of extra weight, and possibly a slight extra
drag on the control stick depending on the servo type.
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/
Join us on the New England Aviation Forums - http://forum.deej.net/
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