---------------------------------------------------------- Glasair-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/16/10: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:16 AM - Re: Glasair spars (Bruce Gray) 2. 09:50 AM - Re: Glasair spars (B.J. McClure) 3. 10:35 AM - Re: Glasair spars (Bruce Gray) 4. 10:53 AM - Re: Glasair spars (Craymondw@aol.com) 5. 11:04 AM - Re: Glasair spars (B.J. McClure) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:48 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair spars Actually, there has been a structural failure of a Glasair III. It was similar to the Columbia incident. Chip Beck was flying his GIII at an airshow, during his acro routine he experienced a wing skin/spar delamination. Fuel was sloshing all over. He said he was pulling about 9 G's at the time. The wing was originally closed by Phoenix Composites using a non-standard closing method and material. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craymondw@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:45 AM Subject: Glasair-List: Glasair spars I just read a report about a wing skin on a Cessna Columbia "disbonding seven feet during a production acceptance flight test." The FAA is issuing an AD and looking into if "unsafe condition is likely to exist in other products of the same type of design." As I was building my Glasair I needed to disbond my rudder skins because of a mistake I made and was surprised how easily they came apart and hoped my wing skins would fair better. I had a friend that manufactured glass sail boats help me and he sanded my spars and wing skins with 80 grit paper and washed them with acetone before laminating them together. During the construction he would comment on the parts and would ask in his thick German accent; ""Vat did Glasair design..a tank?!!" When I incorrectly laminated a foot long fiber glass right angle to the inside of a fuselage skin I at first tried to pop it off using a hammer and chisel and couldn't and ended spending a long time sawing it off with a hack saw blade. Four years later when my nose gear sheared off the plane as I was landing on a sandy soil threshold causing my right wing dug into the ground and cart wheeling the plane. My concern was disbonding of the wing skins. I tapped the entire length of the spar with a coin and couldn't detect any disbonding. My German fiberglass expert friend advised that if my skins hadn't rippled there wouldn't be any disbonding. All of my damage was at the point of contact. My G-Meter was pegged at 14G's and I couldn't decide if the wing actually stood 14 G's or if that was the shock of the nose digging into the ground. Bob Heredeen pulled very high G's in both his Glasair 2 and 3 for years. Also Glasair uses a different resin than Lancair that may be stronger. I completed my plane in the spring of 1991 and had the nose wheel assembly part company in 1996. After I repaired my plane I pulled my chute from my Pitt's S1S and flew up to 6,000 feet and did aerobatics to test my wings and pulled close to six G's. I never bailed out of a plane before and hoped I wouldn't have to. I would also add that there has never been an in flight structural failure of a Glasair. My hope is that the FAA doesn't jump the gun and issue an AD on Glasair's and that they first contact the company and retrieve some data. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair spars From: "B.J. McClure" On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 09:13 -0500, Bruce Gray wrote: > The wing was originally closed by Phoenix Composites using a > non-standard closing method and material. Would you elaborate on this a little. What exactly was the "method" and "materials". Thanks in advance. B.J. McClure Glasair III N300JJ Thu Dec 16 12:44:20 EST 2010, RHEL 6, Linux 2.6.32-71.7.1.el6.x86_64 x86_64 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:50 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair spars >From what I've been told is that they used a mixture of resin, mill fiber, and cabosil. Cabosil in high strength bonds is a no-no. All it does is weaken the bond. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B.J. McClure Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair spars On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 09:13 -0500, Bruce Gray wrote: The wing was originally closed by Phoenix Composites using a non-standard closing method and material. Would you elaborate on this a little. What exactly was the "method" and "materials". Thanks in advance. B.J. McClure Glasair III N300JJ Thu Dec 16 12:44:20 EST 2010, RHEL 6, Linux 2.6.32-71.7.1.el6.x86_64 x86_64 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:36 AM PST US From: Craymondw@aol.com Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair spars Know your materials and in critical areas follow the manual. In a message dated 12/16/2010 1:36:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bgray@glasair .org writes: >From what I=99ve been told is that they used a mixture of resin, mill fiber, and cabosil. Cabosil in high strength bonds is a no-no. All it doe s is weaken the bond. Bruce www.Glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B.J. McClure Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair spars On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 09:13 -0500, Bruce Gray wrote: The wing was originally closed by Phoenix Composites using a non-standard closing method and material. Would you elaborate on this a little. What exactly was the "method" and "materials". Thanks in advance. B.J. McClure Glasair III N300JJ Thu Dec 16 12:44:20 EST 2010, RHEL 6, Linux 2.6.32-71.7.1.el6.x86_64 x86_64 ======================== ============ (http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ======================== ============ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List) ======================== ============ ======================== ============ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair spars From: "B.J. McClure" Thanks. Appreciate the info. On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 13:24 -0500, Bruce Gray wrote: > >From what Ive been told is that they used a mixture of resin, mill > fiber, and cabosil. Cabosil in high strength bonds is a no-no. All it > does is weaken the bond. > > > > > Bruce > www.Glasair.org > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of B.J. > McClure > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 12:47 PM > To: glasair-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair spars > > > > On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 09:13 -0500, Bruce Gray wrote: > > > > The wing was originally closed by Phoenix Composites using a > non-standard closing method and material. > > > Would you elaborate on this a little. What exactly was the "method" > and "materials". Thanks in advance. > > B.J. McClure > Glasair III N300JJ > > Thu Dec 16 12:44:20 EST 2010, RHEL 6, Linux 2.6.32-71.7.1.el6.x86_64 > x86_64 > > > > > > > > > Thu Dec 16 14:00:14 EST 2010, RHEL 6, Linux 2.6.32-71.7.1.el6.x86_64 x86_64 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message glasair-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Glasair-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/glasair-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/glasair-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.