---------------------------------------------------------- Glasair-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/23/13: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:53 PM - Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Bob Granley) 2. 02:53 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Todd Copeland) 3. 04:19 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Bob Granley) 4. 05:22 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (RObin Young) 5. 05:26 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Todd Copeland) 6. 08:02 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Bob Granley) 7. 08:13 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Bob Granley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:58 PM PST US From: "Bob Granley" Subject: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Hello Everyone, Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair's. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing.but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet.but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip.I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line. Thanks very much! Bob Granley ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level From: Todd Copeland Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some w ork and about $800. It will solve the problem though. Todd Sent from my iPad On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the f irst Glasair=99s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable s olutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upp er attach bolt on one side to lower that wingbut are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then ext ending the vent line to the upper part of the wingletbut with the e nd of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tipI am not s ure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line. > > Thanks very much! > > Bob Granley > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:59 PM PST US From: "Bob Granley" Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Cheers Todd So Harry at Glasair can help with thisI will call him. Can=99t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback. Bob From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though. Todd Sent from my iPad On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" > wrote: Hello Everyone, Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair=99s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wingbut are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the wingletbut with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tipI am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line. Thanks very much! Bob Granley ========= ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List ========= cs.com ========= matronics.com/contribution ========= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:08 PM PST US From: "RObin Young" Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1 TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been too long to remember. Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream..about 1 inch long. I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago. Robin Young 286YM _____ From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Cheers Todd. So Harry at Glasair can help with this.I will call him. Can't quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback. Bob From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though. Todd Sent from my iPad On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" wrote: Hello Everyone, Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair's. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing.but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet.but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip.I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line. Thanks very much! Bob Granley ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:06 PM PST US Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level From: Todd Copeland Bob, They are o box that replaces the entire vent system. They mount at the wing tips inside the tip on the rib which closes out the fuel tank. It will like ly take you a weekend or two to install them and you will have to be very ca refully about debris in the tank from drilling through but it will solve the problem. I wish they had designed something similar for the glastar. I had a glasair 1ft that was built by another builder and it was like yours. Vented overboard all the time. My star does the same thing with four separate tank s! I don't fill them to the top and on the ground I turn slowly not to sling it overboard. My glasair 3 has the fuel float valves installed and I look f orward to flying it without that problem when it's finished. Todd Sent from my iPad On Feb 23, 2013, at 7:19 PM, "Bob Granley" wrote: > Cheers Todd > > So Harry at Glasair can help with thisI will call him. Can=99 t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that cau ses this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback. > > Bob > > From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-s erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM > To: glasair-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level > > Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take som e work and about $800. It will solve the problem though. > Todd > > Sent from my iPad > > On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the f irst Glasair=99s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable s olutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upp er attach bolt on one side to lower that wingbut are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then ext ending the vent line to the upper part of the wingletbut with the e nd of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tipI am not s ure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line. > > Thanks very much! > > Bob Granley > > > ========================= ========= > ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List > ========================= ========= > cs.com > ========================= ========= > matronics.com/contribution > ========================= ========= > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:38 PM PST US From: "Bob Granley" Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Thanks so much for your time Todd Gives me some confidence that this can be accomplished. It is so frustrating working around the plugs on the ventsfast taxis on long CC while it flows out. I=99ll call Glasair on Monday. Have not spoken with any of them though since the change of owners. Cheers, Bob From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:26 PM Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Bob, They are o box that replaces the entire vent system. They mount at the wing tips inside the tip on the rib which closes out the fuel tank. It will likely take you a weekend or two to install them and you will have to be very carefully about debris in the tank from drilling through but it will solve the problem. I wish they had designed something similar for the glastar. I had a glasair 1ft that was built by another builder and it was like yours. Vented overboard all the time. My star does the same thing with four separate tanks! I don't fill them to the top and on the ground I turn slowly not to sling it overboard. My glasair 3 has the fuel float valves installed and I look forward to flying it without that problem when it's finished. Todd Sent from my iPad On Feb 23, 2013, at 7:19 PM, "Bob Granley" > wrote: Cheers Todd So Harry at Glasair can help with thisI will call him. Can=99t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback. Bob From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though. Todd Sent from my iPad On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" > wrote: Hello Everyone, Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair=99s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wingbut are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the wingletbut with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tipI am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line. Thanks very much! Bob Granley ========= ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List ========= cs.com ========= matronics.com/contribution ========= http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========= ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List ========= cs.com ========= matronics.com/contribution ========= ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:57 PM PST US From: "Bob Granley" Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Hello Robin, Bob Gavinski.that's a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I digress.my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without issue.and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work. Thanks for the great explanation Robin. Cheers, Bob From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1 TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been too long to remember. Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream..about 1 inch long. I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago. Robin Young 286YM _____ From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Cheers Todd. So Harry at Glasair can help with this.I will call him. Can't quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback. Bob From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though. Todd Sent from my iPad On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" > wrote: Hello Everyone, Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the first Glasair's. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing.but are there any more elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet.but with the end of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip.I am not sure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line. Thanks very much! Bob Granley href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Glasair-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message glasair-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Glasair-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/glasair-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/glasair-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.