Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:31 AM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (RObin Young)
2. 12:04 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Bob Granley)
3. 02:22 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Brian Beaird)
4. 04:10 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Dj Merrill)
5. 04:14 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Bob Granley)
6. 06:26 PM - Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level (Brian Beaird)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland were
the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits.
I don't have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F rib that
closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. THE gas
filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased the
fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the F, it
can be cut out and not put back.
It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin
_____
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Hello Robin,
Bob Gavinski.that's a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly
around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I
digress.my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not
been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last
year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip
I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my
question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without
issue.and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work.
Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1
TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the
original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed
by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been
too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible.
Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the
rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It
will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted
between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two
new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new
low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8
line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage
bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel.
Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When
the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the
slipstream..about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the
header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from
the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
_____
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd.
So Harry at Glasair can help with this.I will call him. Can't quite
visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes
this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some
work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll@whidbey.com> wrote:
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for
some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the
first Glasair's. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do
use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable
solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the
upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing.but are there any more
elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then
extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet.but with the end of
the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip.I am not sure that I
should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley
Message 2
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| Subject: | Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
Robin.
Hi there.that was actually my dad Bud. But I was there as well and may have
met you. Dad is still flying airshows.solo and dual act with my little
brother Ross. and I have been in love with this plane since we met Tom at
the Pig Farm where they were building the first one. I really enjoyed being
around Bob G's and we flew the plane a lot. Dad did a lot for their business
early on as he really believed in the airplane and the guys. Military and
other life challenges prevented me from getting one sooner. Still learning A
LOT about the airplane this past year.
I think that you are right about the distance of the ribs although I will
head out to the airport tomorrow and measure inside tank to rib distance. I
am only at 32 gal usable so this should be an extra rib.
Appreciate your help Robin. Where are you located?
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:31 AM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland were
the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits.
I don't have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F rib that
closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. THE gas
filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased the
fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the F, it
can be cut out and not put back.
It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin
_____
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Hello Robin,
Bob Gavinski.that's a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly
around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I
digress.my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not
been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last
year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip
I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my
question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without
issue.and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work.
Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1
TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the
original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed
by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been
too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible.
Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the
rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It
will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted
between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two
new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new
low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8
line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage
bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel.
Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When
the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the
slipstream..about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the
header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from
the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
_____
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd.
So Harry at Glasair can help with this.I will call him. Can't quite
visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes
this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some
work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll@whidbey.com
<mailto:snaproll@whidbey.com> > wrote:
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for
some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the
first Glasair's. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do
use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable
solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the
upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing.but are there any more
elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then
extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet.but with the end of
the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip.I am not sure that I
should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Glasair-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
Bob,
I built and fly Glasair RG kit #1032. The wing is the short Glasair I like
yours. 34 gallon main tank. As you guys have been saying, the end rib of my
main tank is just outboard of the fill caps (probably about 4 feet from
tip). I agree that your rib near the wingtip is probably not part of the
fuel tank.
fyi, I did two things to prevent the main tank vents from spilling or
cyphoning. Installed both fixes at the same time and they are kind of belt
& suspenders, so I'm not sure which one solved the problem. But I can say I
have no spilling or cyphoning problems now.
(1) I have the standard Glasair I internal vent lines that run down the
inside of the tank, into the fuselage, then back over the wing and
overboard (down) behind the wing at the fuselage center line. To prevent
these lines from cyphoning, I added a vertical 'riser' loop to each of
them. The risers are located between the header tank and the instrument
panel (ie just forward of the instru panel)...Theory is fuel does not rise
up and over this 'gooseneck' so cyphoning never starts.(altho maybe some
serious aerobatics might allow it to start...but I dont do aerobatics). I
can post a diagram of this arrangement if you want.
(2) I also retrofitted Glasair's float valves at the wingtips. They work
great and I highly recommend them. I actually installed a fuel fill cap
just inboard of each end rib, to provide access to the inside of the end
rib while installing the 3/8" tubing from the vent valves, thru the end
rib. It was tedious job but doable.
Hope that helps. Let me know if questions.
Brian Beaird
Glasair N240DB I.5* RG
*I call it a 1.5 because I have Glasair I wing & stab + Glasair II Fuselage
.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Bob Granley <snaproll@whidbey.com> wrote:
> Robin=85****
>
> Hi there=85that was actually my dad Bud. But I was there as well and may
> have met you. Dad is still flying airshows=85solo and dual act with my li
ttle
> brother Ross=85 and I have been in love with this plane since we met Tom
at
> the Pig Farm where they were building the first one. I really enjoyed bei
ng
> around Bob G=92s and we flew the plane a lot. Dad did a lot for their
> business early on as he really believed in the airplane and the guys.
> Military and other life challenges prevented me from getting one sooner.
> Still learning A LOT about the airplane this past year.****
>
> ** **
>
> I think that you are right about the distance of the ribs although I wil
l
> head out to the airport tomorrow and measure inside tank to rib distance.
I
> am only at 32 gal usable so this should be an extra rib. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Appreciate your help Robin. Where are you located?****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RObin Young
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:31 AM
> *To:* glasair-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland
> were the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits. **
*
> *
>
> ** **
>
> I don=92t have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F rib tha
t
> closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. THE ga
s
> filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased th
e
> fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the F,
> it can be cut out and not put back. ****
>
> ** **
>
> It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin****
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com<owner-glasair-list-server@
matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *Bob Granley
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
> *To:* glasair-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level****
>
> ** **
>
> Hello Robin,****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob Gavinski=85that=92s a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fl
y
> around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I
> digress=85my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has
not
> been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last
> year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the t
ip
> I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my
> question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib witho
ut
> issue=85and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would wor
k.
> ****
>
> Thanks for the great explanation Robin.****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers,****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com<owner-glasair-list-server@
matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *RObin Young
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
> *To:* glasair-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair
1
> TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the
> original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been
> designed by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but
> it has been too long to remember.****
>
> ** **
>
> Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as
> possible. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then
> through the rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the
> baggage area. It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a
> threaded cross mounted between the upper and lower trailing edges on the
> pilot side and run the two new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on
> the bottom as this is the new low place in the fuel system. In the top o
f
> the cross, transition to a 3/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first
> horizontal to behind the baggage bulkhead and then ran it as high as it
> could go behind the access panel. Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it
> through the bottom of the plane. When the mil-fiber is set, cut the new
> 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream=85.about 1 inch long. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if
> the header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fue
l
> from the vent since this was done about 27 years ago. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Robin Young 286YM****
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com<owner-glasair-list-server@
matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *Bob Granley
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
> *To:* glasair-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level****
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers Todd=85****
>
> ** **
>
> So Harry at Glasair can help with this=85I will call him. Can=92t quite
> visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes
> this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com<owner-glasair-list-server@
matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *Todd Copeland
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
> *To:* glasair-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level****
>
> ** **
>
> Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take
> some work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.****
>
> Todd
>
> Sent from my iPad****
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll@whidbey.com> wrote:*
*
> **
>
> Hello Everyone,****
>
> ****
>
> Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking fo
r
> some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with th
e
> first Glasair=92s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I
do
> use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable
> solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the
> upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing=85but are there any more
> elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then
> extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet=85but with the e
nd
> of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip=85I am not sure t
hat
> I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.****
>
> ****
>
> Thanks very much!****
>
> ****
>
> Bob Granley ****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List*
>
> *href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
On 2/23/2013 8:25 PM, Todd Copeland wrote:
> My star does the same thing with four separate tanks! I don't fill
> them to the top and on the ground I turn slowly not to sling it overboard.
There is a simple mod for the Glastar that stops about 90% of the
problem. I did it to mine and it does help drastically. I think it
took a half an hour or so per wing.
Buy a T connector. Hook the vent line from the main tank into one
side of the T, and have the other side of the T go straight into the Aux
tank. Turn the base of the T so that it points upwards (as much as you
can without hitting the wingtip). Make the vent line go up from the
base of the T, then curve back down and go out the bottom of the wingtip
in place of the aux vent hole in the wingtip.
When the main tank is full and you make a turn, the fuel rushes up
the vent line, but just gets dumped into the aux tank. If both main and
aux tanks are full, you will still get some spill, but it doesn't seem
to be as bad as it was prior to making this mod. Most of the time my
aux tanks are empty anyways for local flights.
I also bought "Fuel Vent, Aluminum Retrofit" Part number
933-05000-01 from Glasair Aviation which essentially replaces the last
few inches of vent line with a piece of aluminum tubing. One kit does
two vents. I think the kit was $10 or $15. It allows you to better
adjust the vent on each wing to balance out the fuel usage if you have a
"both" setting on your fuel selector. It also looks nicer than the
plastic line sticking out the bottom of the wingtip... :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
Hi Brian,
I have been reading the list daily since I bought the plane and I should
have reached out earlier. Great ideas and solutions. Thanks Brian. My job
this week when not working is to sit down with the manual and visualize how
each of these suggestions can work for me. Will discuss with my A& E
friends as well. I do not have the header tank install and would love to see
your diagram. I am very mechanical and have spent a lot of time figuring out
someone else's build.but still little hesitant when it comes to the
fiberglass mods etc. I do have a good pool of friends nearby though that can
help with this.
Thanks for taking the time Brian and I will be in touch again if you don't
mind.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Beaird
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob,
I built and fly Glasair RG kit #1032. The wing is the short Glasair I like
yours. 34 gallon main tank. As you guys have been saying, the end rib of my
main tank is just outboard of the fill caps (probably about 4 feet from
tip). I agree that your rib near the wingtip is probably not part of the
fuel tank.
fyi, I did two things to prevent the main tank vents from spilling or
cyphoning. Installed both fixes at the same time and they are kind of belt &
suspenders, so I'm not sure which one solved the problem. But I can say I
have no spilling or cyphoning problems now.
(1) I have the standard Glasair I internal vent lines that run down the
inside of the tank, into the fuselage, then back over the wing and overboard
(down) behind the wing at the fuselage center line. To prevent these lines
from cyphoning, I added a vertical 'riser' loop to each of them. The risers
are located between the header tank and the instrument panel (ie just
forward of the instru panel)...Theory is fuel does not rise up and over this
'gooseneck' so cyphoning never starts.(altho maybe some serious aerobatics
might allow it to start...but I dont do aerobatics). I can post a diagram of
this arrangement if you want.
(2) I also retrofitted Glasair's float valves at the wingtips. They work
great and I highly recommend them. I actually installed a fuel fill cap just
inboard of each end rib, to provide access to the inside of the end rib
while installing the 3/8" tubing from the vent valves, thru the end rib. It
was tedious job but doable.
Hope that helps. Let me know if questions.
Brian Beaird
Glasair N240DB I.5* RG
*I call it a 1.5 because I have Glasair I wing & stab + Glasair II Fuselage.
On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Bob Granley <snaproll@whidbey.com
<mailto:snaproll@whidbey.com> > wrote:
Robin.
Hi there.that was actually my dad Bud. But I was there as well and may have
met you. Dad is still flying airshows.solo and dual act with my little
brother Ross. and I have been in love with this plane since we met Tom at
the Pig Farm where they were building the first one. I really enjoyed being
around Bob G's and we flew the plane a lot. Dad did a lot for their business
early on as he really believed in the airplane and the guys. Military and
other life challenges prevented me from getting one sooner. Still learning A
LOT about the airplane this past year.
I think that you are right about the distance of the ribs although I will
head out to the airport tomorrow and measure inside tank to rib distance. I
am only at 32 gal usable so this should be an extra rib.
Appreciate your help Robin. Where are you located?
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:31 AM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland were
the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits.
I don't have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F rib that
closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. THE gas
filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased the
fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the F, it
can be cut out and not put back.
It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin
_____
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Hello Robin,
Bob Gavinski.that's a name I have not heard in 25 years. I used to fly
around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other sick. I
digress.my Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. This one has not
been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Albany NY last
year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as under the tip
I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I guess my
question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that rib without
issue.and then repair? I am guessing that I can and then this would work.
Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
Cheers,
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1
TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the
original design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed
by Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been
too long to remember.
Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possible.
Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through the
rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area. It
will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mounted
between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the two
new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the new
low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3/8
line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggage
bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel.
Then bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When
the mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the
slipstream..about 1 inch long.
I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if the
header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel from
the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
Robin Young 286YM
_____
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Cheers Todd.
So Harry at Glasair can help with this.I will call him. Can't quite
visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that causes
this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
Bob
From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take some
work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
Todd
Sent from my iPad
On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll@whidbey.com
<mailto:snaproll@whidbey.com> > wrote:
Hello Everyone,
Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for
some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the
first Glasair's. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full. I do
use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable
solutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the
upper attach bolt on one side to lower that wing.but are there any more
elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then
extending the vent line to the upper part of the winglet.but with the end of
the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tip.I am not sure that I
should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
Thanks very much!
Bob Granley
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Glasair-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: Glasair 1 TD Wing level |
No problem Bob. I have not been real active on the list until recently but h
appy to help if i can. lots of builders have help me same way over the years
. i have all the construction manuals i used to build from and remember most
(?) of what things look like 'under the hood' so contact me any time. Meanw
hile I will find and send you that diagram.
Brian
On Feb 24, 2013, at 6:12 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll@whidbey.com> wrote:
> Hi Brian,
>
> I have been reading the list daily since I bought the plane and I should h
ave reached out earlier. Great ideas and solutions. Thanks Brian. My job thi
s week when not working is to sit down with the manual and visualize how eac
h of these suggestions can work for me. Will discuss with my A& E friends a
s well. I do not have the header tank install and would love to see your dia
gram. I am very mechanical and have spent a lot of time figuring out someone
else=99s buildbut still little hesitant when it comes to the
fiberglass mods etc. I do have a good pool of friends nearby though that ca
n help with this.
>
> Thanks for taking the time Brian and I will be in touch again if you don
=99t mind.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob
>
> From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Beaird
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 2:22 PM
> To: glasair-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
>
> Bob,
> I built and fly Glasair RG kit #1032. The wing is the short Glasair I like
yours. 34 gallon main tank. As you guys have been saying, the end rib of my
main tank is just outboard of the fill caps (probably about 4 feet from tip
). I agree that your rib near the wingtip is probably not part of the fuel t
ank.
>
> fyi, I did two things to prevent the main tank vents from spilling or cyph
oning. Installed both fixes at the same time and they are kind of belt & sus
penders, so I'm not sure which one solved the problem. But I can say I have n
o spilling or cyphoning problems now.
>
> (1) I have the standard Glasair I internal vent lines that run down the in
side of the tank, into the fuselage, then back over the wing and overboard (
down) behind the wing at the fuselage center line. To prevent these lines fr
om cyphoning, I added a vertical 'riser' loop to each of them. The risers ar
e located between the header tank and the instrument panel (ie just forward o
f the instru panel)...Theory is fuel does not rise up and over this 'goosene
ck' so cyphoning never starts.(altho maybe some serious aerobatics might all
ow it to start...but I dont do aerobatics). I can post a diagram of this arr
angement if you want.
>
> (2) I also retrofitted Glasair's float valves at the wingtips. They work g
reat and I highly recommend them. I actually installed a fuel fill cap just i
nboard of each end rib, to provide access to the inside of the end rib while
installing the 3/8" tubing from the vent valves, thru the end rib. It was t
edious job but doable.
>
> Hope that helps. Let me know if questions.
> Brian Beaird
> Glasair N240DB I.5* RG
> *I call it a 1.5 because I have Glasair I wing & stab + Glasair II Fuselag
e.
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Bob Granley <snaproll@whidbey.com> wrote:
> Robin
> Hi therethat was actually my dad Bud. But I was there as well and
may have met you. Dad is still flying airshowssolo and dual act wi
th my little brother Ross and I have been in love with this plane s
ince we met Tom at the Pig Farm where they were building the first one. I re
ally enjoyed being around Bob G=99s and we flew the plane a lot. Dad d
id a lot for their business early on as he really believed in the airplane a
nd the guys. Military and other life challenges prevented me from getting on
e sooner. Still learning A LOT about the airplane this past year.
>
> I think that you are right about the distance of the ribs although I will
head out to the airport tomorrow and measure inside tank to rib distance. I
am only at 32 gal usable so this should be an extra rib.
>
> Appreciate your help Robin. Where are you located?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 6:31 AM
> To: glasair-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
>
> Bob, I remember you. Your airshow performances at Oshkosh and Lakeland we
re the best promotions Glasair ever had. They sold a lot of kits.
>
> I don=99t have my manuals handy but, the last rib should be the F ri
b that closes up the tank. It sounds like one was added beyond the tank. TH
E gas filler will be just inboard of the F rib even if the builder increased
the fuel tank ( to 40 gallons I think). If there is a rib outboard of the
F, it can be cut out and not put back.
>
> It is great to be in touch again. Welcome to the list. RObin
>
> From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 11:14 PM
> To: glasair-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
>
> Hello Robin,
>
> Bob Gavinskithat=99s a name I have not heard in 25 years. I
used to fly around with Bob in the factory planes trying to make each other
sick. I digressmy Glasair is #251 and sounds exactly like yours. T
his one has not been flown much over the years and I brought it back from Al
bany NY last year to Wa. My problem is limited access to the vent lines as u
nder the tip I have a sealed rib preventing me at getting to the vent line. I
guess my question is since I did not build this one can I penetrate that ri
b without issueand then repair? I am guessing that I can and then t
his would work.
> Thanks for the great explanation Robin.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bob
>
> From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RObin Young
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:22 PM
> To: glasair-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
>
> Bob, there is actually a very simple fix to the problem. I fly a Glasair 1
TD and built it 29 years ago. My plane had the same problem. I carry the o
riginal design 36 gallons in a short wing. This fix may have been designed b
y Bob Gavinski or it may have been something I came up with but it has been t
oo long to remember.
>
> Remove the wing tips and cut the vent line as close to the tips as possibl
e. Add a coupling and new line. Route it through the spar and then through t
he rear shear web. Run it under the top trailing edge into the baggage area.
It will not conflict with the flaps or ailerons. Use a threaded cross mount
ed between the upper and lower trailing edges on the pilot side and run the t
wo new lines into the horizontals. Use a sump on the bottom as this is the n
ew low place in the fuel system. In the top of the cross, transition to a 3
/8 line. I used soft copper and ran it first horizontal to behind the baggag
e bulkhead and then ran it as high as it could go behind the access panel. T
hen bend a 180 degree loop and run it through the bottom of the plane. When t
he mil-fiber is set, cut the new 3/8 vent at a 45degree into the slipstream
.about 1 inch long.
>
> I do not have a header tank and cannot vouch for it not venting fuel if th
e header is attached to the main in some way but, I have never lost fuel fro
m the vent since this was done about 27 years ago.
>
> Robin Young 286YM
>
> From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Granley
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 7:19 PM
> To: glasair-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
>
> Cheers Todd
>
> So Harry at Glasair can help with thisI will call him. Can=99
t quite visualize how it resolves the poor vent design issue though that cau
ses this. Those lines seem impossible to get at. Appreciate the feedback.
>
> Bob
>
> From: owner-glasair-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-glasair-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Copeland
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 2:53 PM
> To: glasair-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Glasair-List: Glasair 1 TD Wing level
>
> Glasair has a fuel float valve which can be retrofitted but would take som
e work and about $800. It will solve the problem though.
> Todd
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 23, 2013, at 4:53 PM, "Bob Granley" <snaproll@whidbey.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Have been following the list since I got my Glasair last year. Looking for
some possible solutions to what I know now to be a common problem with the f
irst Glasair=99s. I vent fuel constantly when I am anywhere near full.
I do use plugs on the vents but it is such a pain. Is there any reasonable s
olutions to this problem? Have considered adding some washers behind the upp
er attach bolt on one side to lower that wingbut are there any more
elegant solutions than that? Also considered building winglets and then ext
ending the vent line to the upper part of the wingletbut with the e
nd of the wing closed/sealed the way that it is at the tipI am not s
ure that I should open this up to try and reach that vent line.
>
> Thanks very much!
>
> Bob Granley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Glasair-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
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