---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/18/07: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:07 AM - Re: Re: Radio interference (Geoff Leedham) 2. 06:08 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure (nick otterback) 3. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure () 4. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure (japhillipsga@aol.com) 5. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure (japhillipsga@aol.com) 6. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure (T. Graziano) 7. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure (japhillipsga@aol.com) 8. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure (Jabiru USA) 9. 04:43 PM - Re: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 10. 09:05 PM - Re: Radio interference (jetboy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:31 AM PST US From: "Geoff Leedham" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Radio interference Hi Ralph Thanks for the reply. When you replaced the leads did you replace the ones from the coils to the distributer caps? The plug leads on my engine are marked as suppressed but not the coil leads. Have you replaced the NGK plugs with resistor types? Geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "jetboy" Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:40 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Radio interference > > Geoff, > I just posted some info and plots of radiated noise from HT leads > on > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/message/16729 > > This might help although in your case it might also be alternator > regulator noise. > I have shielded 'P' leads which made no apparent difference. The major > cause for me is the HT leads and I have yet to try shielding or ferrite > bead loading of the coil leads. Fitting the Bosch leads in place of the > factory ones made the largest improvement. I use a Bendixking KY96A which > is same as the A200. > > Ralph > > -------- > Ralph - CH701 / 2200a > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88227#88227 > > > -- > 15/01/2007 11:04 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:25 AM PST US From: nick otterback Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure how long are the tail pipes out the bottom of the cowl? Nick JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: Dear Thread Friends, Last week after a short flight I was relocating my super duper homebuilt preheater under the cowl when I touched the left exhaust pipe and it moved. I removed the cowl and inspected and found two cracks had formed in the muffler, one above, one below the exit pipe from the welds. I removed the muffler and then I saw what I am reporting as a failure. All the metal guts from the inside fell out. The metal screen inside the muffler had disintegrated into little chunks of steel. The inside part must not be made of stainless steel ???? I fished them all out and made two gussets from 18 gauge stainless stock and TIG welded them to the exit pipes to strengthen them and repaired the cracks. I did my 100 hour at Christmas, but missed any cracks, if they were there. What really jerks my chain is I have only 101 hours on the engine when the thing failed. I wonder what would have happened to my 3300, my plane and my butt if a couple solid corner chunks stopped up an exit pipe in flight ??? All you Jab guys check your mufflers. Jab put out a SB some time back on the inlet pipe connectors cracking because the welds were MIG not TIG, but nothing on the inside being eaten away, Bet regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP, 601XL-3300 --------------------------------- Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:22 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure When questioned on this issue, Jabiru USA will certainly ask when the engine and muffler were bought and probably offer that some improvement has been made since then. So when was engine delivered Bill? Ed Moody II ---- nick otterback wrote: > how long are the tail pipes out the bottom of the cowl? > > Nick > > JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > Dear Thread Friends, Last week after a short flight I was relocating my super duper homebuilt preheater under the cowl when I touched the left exhaust pipe and it moved. I removed the cowl and inspected and found two cracks had formed in the muffler, one above, one below the exit pipe from the welds. I removed the muffler and then I saw what I am reporting as a failure. All the metal guts from the inside fell out. The metal screen inside the muffler had disintegrated into little chunks of steel. The inside part must not be made of stainless steel ???? I fished them all out and made two gussets from 18 gauge stainless stock and TIG welded them to the exit pipes to strengthen them and repaired the cracks. I did my 100 hour at Christmas, but missed any cracks, if they were there. What really jerks my chain is I have only 101 hours on the engine when the thing failed. I wonder what would have happened to my 3300, my plane and my butt if a couple solid corner chunks stopped up > an exit pipe in flight ??? All you Jab guys check your mufflers. Jab put out a SB some time back on the inlet pipe connectors cracking because the welds were MIG not TIG, but nothing on the inside being eaten away, Bet regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP, 601XL-3300 > > > > --------------------------------- > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure From: japhillipsga@aol.com Nick, I'm not at the airport, but I think they are about 16-18 inches long. Bill -----Original Message----- From: vettin74@yahoo.com Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 9:08 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure how long are the tail pipes out the bottom of the cowl? Nick JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: Dear Thread Friends, Last week after a short flight I was relocating my super duper homebuilt preheater under the cowl when I touched the left exhaust pipe and it moved. I removed the cowl and inspected and found two cracks had formed in the muffler, one above, one below the exit pipe from the welds. I removed the muffler and then I saw what I am reporting as a failure. All the metal guts from the inside fell out. The metal screen inside the muffler had disintegrated into little chunks of steel. The inside part must not be made of stainless steel ???? I fished them all out and made two gussets from 18 gauge stainless stock and TIG welded Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure From: japhillipsga@aol.com Ed, I can't really remember when I received the engine. I would have to look in my log for sure, but I think spring/summer of '04 ? How's your building coming along? Well, I hope. Best regards, Bill -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 9:46 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure When questioned on this issue, Jabiru USA will certainly ask when the engine and muffler were bought and probably offer that some improvement has been made since then. So when was engine delivered Bill? Ed Moody II ---- nick otterback wrote: > how long are the tail pipes out the bottom of the cowl? > > Nick > > JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > Dear Thread Friends, Last week after a short flight I was relocating my super duper homebuilt preheater under the cowl when I touched the left exhaust pipe and it moved. I removed the cowl and inspected and found two cracks had formed in the muffler, one above, one below the exit pipe from the welds. I removed the muffler and then I saw what I am reporting as a failure. All the metal guts from the inside fell out. The metal screen inside the muffler had disintegrated into little chunks of steel. The inside part must not be made of stainless steel ???? I fished them all out and made two gussets from 18 gauge stainless stock and TIG welded them to the exit pipes to strengthen them and repaired the cracks. I did my 100 hour at Christmas, but missed any cracks, if they were there. What really jerks my chain is I have only 101 hours on the engine when the thing failed. I wonder what would have happened to my 3300, my plane and my butt if a couple solid corner chunks stopped up > an exit pipe in flight ??? All you Jab guys check your mufflers. Jab put out a SB some time back on the inlet pipe connectors cracking because the welds were MIG not TIG, but nothing on the inside being eaten away, Bet regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP, 601XL-3300 > > > > --------------------------------- > Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate > in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:13:45 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure Bill, I may be wrong, but I believe that the inside of the muffler has no "Screens". The outlet pipes though have a bunch of holes in the area inside of the muffler (like piccolo tubes). When I received my FWF from Jab USA, the outlet pipes were not welded to the muffler, nor were there any holes for fitting the outlet pipes into the muffler. One end of the outlet pipes was capped closed. I aked Pete about this and he said that it was in case anyone wished to weld the outlets themselves and for other configurations/installations. He said he would have them welded for the XL, so I sent the muffler and outlet pipes back to Pete and he returned them TIG welded. The "forward/capped closed" ends of the outlet pipes were fillet welded to the muffler after a hole was cut in the muffler, along with a fillet weld around the outlet hole at the aft exit circumference. Is possible you had the muffler "holed" and the outlet pipes welded locally? Were your outlets welded at both ends? Tony Graziano Zodiac 601XL/Jab3300A; N493TG; 195 hrs From: japhillipsga@aol.com Date: Thu Jan 18 - 6:55 AM Ed, I can't really remember when I received the engine. I would have to look in my log for sure, but I think spring/summer of '04 ? How's your building coming along? Well, I hope. Best regards, Bill -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure When questioned on this issue, Jabiru USA will certainly ask when the engine and muffler were bought and probably offer that some improvement has been made since then. So when was engine delivered Bill? Ed Moody II ---- nick otterback wrote: > how long are the tail pipes out the bottom of the cowl? > > Nick > > JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > Dear Thread Friends, Last week after a short flight I was relocating my super duper homebuilt preheater under the cowl when I touched the left exhaust pipe and it moved. I removed the cowl and inspected and found two cracks had formed in the muffler, one above, one below the exit pipe from the welds. I removed the muffler and then I saw what I am reporting as a failure. All the metal guts from the inside fell out. The metal screen inside the muffler had disintegrated into little chunks of steel. The inside part must not be made of stainless steel ???? I fished them all out and made two gussets from 18 gauge stainless stock and TIG welded them to the exit pipes to strengthen them and repaired the cracks. I did my 100 hour at Christmas, but missed any cracks, if they were there. What really jerks my chain is I have only 101 hours on the engine when the thing failed. I wonder what would have happened to my 3300, my plane and my butt if a couple solid corner chunks stopped up > an exit pipe in flight ??? All you Jab guys check your mufflers. Jab put out a SB some time back on the inlet pipe connectors cracking because the welds were MIG not TIG, but nothing on the inside being eaten away, Bet regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP, 601XL-3300 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure From: japhillipsga@aol.com Tony, The inlet holes that the manifold pipes slide into were welded. The outlet holes, I had to cut and have the pipes TIG welded into place. The baffle screen was visible inside the "can" when I made the two holes. The baffle screen is what disintegrated into chunks about quarter to .50 cent size pieces. Good to hear from you and hope your doing well, Best regards, Bill -----Original Message----- From: tonyplane@bellsouth.net Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 1:13 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure Bill, I may be wrong, but I believe that the inside of the muffler has no "Screens". The outlet pipes though have a bunch of holes in the area inside of the muffler (like piccolo tubes). When I received my FWF from Jab USA, the outlet pipes were not welded to the muffler, nor were there any holes for fitting the outlet pipes into the muffler. One end of the outlet pipes was capped closed. I aked Pete about this and he said that it was in case anyone wished to weld the outlets themselves and for other configurations/installations. He said he would have them welded for the XL, so I sent the muffler and outlet pipes back to Pete and he returned them TIG welded. The "forward/capped closed" ends of the outlet pipes were fillet welded to the muffler after a hole was cut in the muffler, along with a fillet weld around the outlet hole at the aft exit circumference. Is possible you had the muffler "holed" and the outlet pipes welded locally? Were your outlets welded at both ends? Tony Graziano Zodiac 601XL/Jab3300A; N493TG; 195 hrs From: japhillipsga@aol.com Ed, I can't really remember when I received the engine. I would have to look in my log for sure, but I think spring/summer of '04 ? How's your building coming along? Well, I hope. Best regards, Bill -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure When questioned on this issue, Jabiru USA will certainly ask when the engine and muffler were bought and probably offer that some improvement has been made since then. So when was engine delivered Bill? Ed Moody II ---- nick otterback wrote: > how long are the tail pipes out the bottom of the cowl? > > Nick > > JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > Dear Thread Friends, Last week after a short flight I was relocating my super duper homebuilt preheater under the cowl when I touched the left exhaust pipe and it moved. I removed the cowl and inspected and found two cracks had formed in the muffler, one above, one below the exit pipe from the welds. I removed the muffler and then I saw what I am reporting as a failure. All the metal guts from the inside fell out. The metal screen inside the muffler had disintegrated into little chunks of steel. The inside part must not be made of stainless steel ???? I fished them all out and made two gussets from 18 gauge stainless stock and TIG welded them to the exit pipes to strengthen them and repaired the cracks. I did my 100 hour at Christmas, but missed any cracks, if they were there. What really jerks my chain is I have only 101 hours on the engine when the thing failed. I wonder what would have happened to my 3300, my plane and my butt if a couple solid corner chunks stopped up > an exit pipe in flight ??? All you Jab guys check your mufflers. Jab put out a SB some time back on the inlet pipe connectors cracking because the welds were MIG not TIG, but nothing on the inside being eaten away, Bet regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP, 601XL-3300 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:57 PM PST US From: "Jabiru USA" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure Bill, Did you cut the holes all the way through the can so that the outlet was welded on both sides of the can? Pete _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of japhillipsga@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:18 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure Tony, The inlet holes that the manifold pipes slide into were welded. The outlet holes, I had to cut and have the pipes TIG welded into place. The baffle screen was visible inside the "can" when I made the two holes. The baffle screen is what disintegrated into chunks about quarter to .50 cent size pieces. Good to hear from you and hope your doing well, Best regards, Bill -----Original Message----- From: tonyplane@bellsouth.net Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 1:13 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure Bill, I may be wrong, but I believe that the inside of the muffler has no "Screens". The outlet pipes though have a bunch of holes in the area inside of the muffler (like piccolo tubes). When I received my FWF from Jab USA, the outlet pipes were not welded to the muffler, nor were there any holes for fitting the outlet pipes into the muffler. One end of the outlet pipes was capped closed. I aked Pete about this and he said that it was in case anyone wished to weld the outlets themselves and for other configurations/installations. He said he would have them welded for the XL, so I sent the muffler and outlet pipes back to Pete and he returned them TIG welded. The "forward/capped closed" ends of the outlet pipes were fillet welded to the muffler after a hole was cut in the muffler, along with a fillet weld around the outlet hole at the aft exit circumference. Is possible you had the muffler "holed" and the outlet pipes welded locally? Were your outlets welded at both ends? Tony Graziano Zodiac 601XL/Jab3300A; N493TG; 195 hrs From: japhillipsga@aol.com Date: Thu Jan 18 - 6:55 AM Ed, I can't really remember when I received the engine. I would have to look in my log for sure, but I think spring/summer of '04 ? How's your building coming along? Well, I hope. Best regards, Bill -----Original Message----- From: dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure When questioned on this issue, Jabiru USA will certainly ask when the engine and muffler were bought and probably offer that some improvement has been made since then. So when was engine delivered Bill? Ed Moody II ---- nick otterback < vettin74@yahoo.com> wrote: > how long are the tail pipes out the bottom of the cowl? > > Nick > > JAPhillipsGA@aol.com wrote: > Dear Thread Friends, Last week after a short flight I was relocating my super duper homebuilt preheater under the cowl when I touched the left exhaust pipe and it moved. I removed the cowl and inspected and found two cracks had formed in the muffler, one above, one below the exit pipe from the welds. I removed the muffler and then I saw what I am reporting as a failure. All the metal guts from the inside fell out. The metal screen inside the muffler had disintegrated into little chunks of steel. The inside part must not be made of stainless steel ???? I fished them all out and made two gussets from 18 gauge stainless stock and TIG welded them to the exit pipes to strengthen them and repaired the cracks. I did my 100 hour at Christmas, but missed any cracks, if they were there. What really jerks my chain is I have only 101 hours on the engine when the thing failed. I wonder what would have happened to my 3300, my plane and my butt if a couple solid corner chunks stopped up > an exit pipe in flight ??? All you Jab guys check your mufflers. Jab put out a SB some time back on the inlet pipe connectors cracking because the welds were MIG not TIG, but nothing on the inside being eaten away, Bet regards, Bill of Georgia N505WP, 601XL-3300 _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:20 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Re: Jabiru Muffler Failure Pete, I had stainless steel sleeves similar to the inlet sleeves made and welded to the can skin. Then the exit pipes welded into the sleeves. As to "all the way through" the can, no it was not welded from behind. Could not have been had I thought of it because the baffle shelf was welded inside the can and blocked access to the back inside of the exit sleeves. I guess I could weld it that way now that the baffle has disintegrated. Would you like for me to mail you the chunks and bits I saved? Bill ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:49 PM PST US Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Radio interference From: "jetboy" Geoff, You cannot easily change the coil leads, and they are wire. I intend to shield one of them as an experiment and compare with the other. ferrite beads may also be a trial. I use standard plugs. there is some debate about resistor ones and NIX plugs, but as my replacement ignition leads are already the correct resistance 3K - 8K adding a further 5K at the plug would add little suppression but might allow the coils to fail due to hihger voltages or the spark power to be weaker. Jabiru dont allow resistor plugs. I suspect the distributors also are a noise source. When we used to suppress radio inspectors vehicles we had to shield everything. That typically meant mounting a box around the distributor and sparkplugs and relocating the coil inside the box. It made a RF quiet vehicle but hard to service. Ralph -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=88767#88767 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.