Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Re: Last Chance (deuskid)
2. 06:32 AM - Re: Re: Last Chance (Jabiru USA)
3. 06:37 AM - Re: Re: Last Chance (Don Morrisey)
4. 06:53 AM - Re: Last Chance (Noel Loveys)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: Last Chance (Dave G.)
6. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Last Chance (Kayberg@aol.com)
7. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Last Chance (Craig Rairdin)
8. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Last Chance (Kayberg@aol.com)
9. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: Last Chance (Craig Rairdin)
Message 1
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third option: filtering
it could be that a sender's emails might be treated as spam. I've had this happen
to me both as sender and receiver.
the filters on email systems are not perfect.
it could be that 4 were sent and none were received and it isn't either's fault
but simply technology 'helping' us out once again.
Peace,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123371#123371
Message 2
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I find that the spam filter is the culprit in some instances as well.
Especially if the sender uses some "stationary" that includes graphics.
Also, the filter will sometimes pick up emails from out of the country and
send them to the spam folder.
We get about 300 emails a day at Jabiru USA and 250 of them are spam - most
from spammers getting our info from the Yahoogroups system. Sometimes a
bona fide email will be in the spam batch and I will not catch it before
deleting (I do take a brief look at the spam folder before I trash it)
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of deuskid
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 7:46 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Last Chance
third option: filtering
it could be that a sender's emails might be treated as spam. I've had this
happen to me both as sender and receiver.
the filters on email systems are not perfect.
it could be that 4 were sent and none were received and it isn't either's
fault but simply technology 'helping' us out once again.
Peace,
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=123371#123371
Message 3
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Several months ago, I had an experience with Jabiru Canada, similar to what
Dave G has had.
My inquiries were for the Italian prop they rep. It took three messages ov
er several weeks to finally get a response, and the response basically said
they couldn't help me and that I should go to the prop maker's website.
Customer service is king. There is no excuse in 2007 not to be up on commu
nicating via email, and to do it quickly. If I am going to spend thousands
of dollars it's going to be with someone I know will repond when I have an
issue. All the messages I sent were to the address Lancaster Aero just po
sted on this list. And if my messages and Dave G's messages were treated a
s spam, why did "one" message finally get through.
Be careful who you give your money to.Don.> --> JabiruEngine-List message p
osted by: "deuskid" <empire.john@gmail.com>> > third option: filtering> > i
t could be that a sender's emails might be treated as spam. I've had this h
appen to me both as sender and receiver.> > the filters on email systems ar
e not perfect.> > it could be that 4 were sent and none were received and i
t isn't either's fault but simply technology 'helping' us out once again.>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 4
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Why do you need to reply to a phone call the same day?..... What's wrong
with having someone answer the call?
Don't think I'm singling out your firm. Many companies are t'ing off
the
public, you phone only to get a record player. That may be good enough
for
the Telco provides a necessary service and also who sells the record
service.
Because of the nature of E-mail, where every letter in the address has
to be
perfect or no delivery or delivery to the wrong person, just as bad, too
many communications can get lost in a world wide maze of wire. Initial
contact should be made human to human by phone. I'm sorry human to pile
of
wire doesn't do it for me and I suspect few people any where.
Nice product
Noel Loveys
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Possible customer.
Message 5
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----- Original Message -----
From: "deuskid" <empire.john@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Last Chance
>
> third option: filtering
>
> it could be that a sender's emails might be treated as spam. I've had
> this happen to me both as sender and receiver.
>
There are any number of possibilities, and I'm not out to cost these fellows
any business. I did not care for their public response and I don't think
it's worth my while to bother with them. I expect that most people have good
dealings with them. In my case, there's lots of engines out there, and mine
has few hours left in it. I'll manage.
Do not archive
Message 6
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In a message dated 7/12/2007 9:39:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
donmorrisey@hotmail.com writes:
Several months ago, I had an experience with Jabiru Canada, similar to what
Dave G has had.
My inquiries were for the Italian prop they rep. It took three messages
over several weeks to finally get a response, and the response basically said
they couldn't help me and that I should go to the prop maker's website.
Customer service is king. There is no excuse in 2007 not to be up on
communicating via email, and to do it quickly.
There is an excuse. That is what some of us who are in the airplane
business are trying to say. Think about it. If you tried to get a price on
that
particular prop from that particular manufacturer, you might well experience
the same 3 week delay. I have. When you try to get a price from them, it is
easy to get the run-around. Ask Pete. He no longer deals with them.. (not
that Sensinich is without sin either).
Oh, they could have said, "we havent heard anything" every other day as they
waited for a response that made sense. But that seems like a waste of
everyone's time.
On a number of items, the dealer is at the mercy of single-point
manufacture. I could tell many stories about that. The fuel tanks we use are
only
affordable from one guy. He uses a cell phone and never answers. Out of the
blue we will get a call to meet him at a truckstop on the interstate and he
will have however many tanks he felt like making. Any other source would be
3
times as expensive and probably as prone to being unreliable. We hear a lot
of bitching about the costs of airplane parts, but if you want instant
service, you should be prepared to pay for it. Check Cessna and Piper prices.
And finally, there is the phone. We answer it all the time. Sometimes
while we are on a call it goes to a message. But for some reason, the people
who
get frustrated with email seem unwilling to simply call, even tho the number
is readily available. I often see people on a Yahoo group looking for a
part that I have in stock....but they wont call me for it even tho I am the
only source. If we have it , we ship the next day (unless it goes by freight)
Believe me, I know how hard it can be to get stuff for airplanes. We
finally got a kitplane shipment after waiting for 3 months...from a supposedly
reliable shipper! An this was to get it shipped from 5 states away!!!
None of us want a customer to wait on an email in this day and age. But
trust me, it is going to happen on this level of production and sales. I know
some of you on the list do not want to hear that. But an old adage
suggests, "Make Peace with Reality!"
Doug Koenigsberg
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 7
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Nonsense.
Why do customers have to "make peace with reality" but not vendors? The
reality is that people are going to contact you by email when you
publish
your address and invite them to communicate with you that way. You may
not
be the best typist, and a lot of your email may be spam, but that is the
reality -- make peace with it.
I don't know what happened between Don and Jabiru Canada, but the way I
read
it he wrote several messages and got no response. When they finally did
respond it was to tell him they couldn't help him. Your proposed excuse
is
that they had inquired of the manufacturer and gotten no response. If
that
was the case, why didn't they write to Don and tell him they were doing
that? It's not sufficient to act on an email right away ... you need to
tell
the other person that you're acting. Otherwise it's as if you aren't
doing
anything.
This spam filter excuse is also nonsense. If you found out the phone
company
was "filtering" your calls and you weren't getting some calls from
customers, you'd complain until the problem was solved. But when
customer
email gets routed to the spam folder, vendors just accept it as
unavoidable.
That simply isn't true. Fix it. When multiple customers report on this
list
that a company isn't responding to email, there's more to it than spam
filters. And if spam filters are the problem, fix them.
I realize this is a tough business to be in. But hey, they're all tough.
I'm
currently chasing a bug in my software that's incredibly illusive. I've
been
working 18-hour days for the last week to find it. The magic tool from
Microsoft that was supposed to instantly solve my problem crashed
immediately when I launched it. In the meantime I'm keeping my inbox
empty
and I'm taking and returning phone calls as needed. The fact that my job
is
hard isn't an excuse for not doing it right. That's the reality.
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Kayberg@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Last Chance
In a message dated 7/12/2007 9:39:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
donmorrisey@hotmail.com writes:
Several months ago, I had an experience with Jabiru Canada, similar to
what
Dave G has had.
My inquiries were for the Italian prop they rep. It took three messages
over several weeks to finally get a response, and the response basically
said they couldn't help me and that I should go to the prop maker's
website.
Customer service is king. There is no excuse in 2007 not to be up on
communicating via email, and to do it quickly.
There is an excuse. That is what some of us who are in the airplane
business are trying to say. Think about it. If you tried to get a
price
on that particular prop from that particular manufacturer, you might
well
experience the same 3 week delay. I have. When you try to get a price
from them, it is easy to get the run-around. Ask Pete. He no longer
deals
with them.. (not that Sensinich is without sin either).
Oh, they could have said, "we havent heard anything" every other day as
they
waited for a response that made sense. But that seems like a waste of
everyone's time.
On a number of items, the dealer is at the mercy of single-point
manufacture. I could tell many stories about that. The fuel tanks we
use
are only affordable from one guy. He uses a cell phone and never
answers.
Out of the blue we will get a call to meet him at a truckstop on the
interstate and he will have however many tanks he felt like making.
Any
other source would be 3 times as expensive and probably as prone to
being
unreliable. We hear a lot of bitching about the costs of airplane
parts,
but if you want instant service, you should be prepared to pay for it.
Check Cessna and Piper prices.
And finally, there is the phone. We answer it all the time. Sometimes
while we are on a call it goes to a message. But for some reason, the
people who get frustrated with email seem unwilling to simply call, even
tho
the number is readily available. I often see people on a Yahoo group
looking for a part that I have in stock....but they wont call me for it
even
tho I am the only source. If we have it , we ship the next day (unless
it
goes by freight)
Believe me, I know how hard it can be to get stuff for airplanes. We
finally got a kitplane shipment after waiting for 3 months...from a
supposedly reliable shipper! An this was to get it shipped from 5
states
away!!!
None of us want a customer to wait on an email in this day and age.
But
trust me, it is going to happen on this level of production and sales.
I
know some of you on the list do not want to hear that. But an old adage
suggests, "Make Peace with Reality!"
Doug Koenigsberg
_____
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000982>
.
Message 8
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In a message dated 7/12/2007 12:50:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
craig@craigr.com writes:
Nonsense.
Why do customers have to "make peace with reality" but not vendors? The
reality is that people are going to contact you by email when you publish your
address and invite them to communicate with you that way. You may not be the
best typist, and a lot of your email may be spam, but that is the reality --
make peace with it.
I don't know what happened between Don and Jabiru Canada, but the way I read
it he wrote several messages and got no response. When they finally did
respond it was to tell him they couldn't help him. Your proposed excuse is that
they had inquired of the manufacturer and gotten no response. If that was the
case, why didn't they write to Don and tell him they were doing that? It's
not sufficient to act on an email right away ... you need to tell the other
person that you're acting. Otherwise it's as if you aren't doing anything.
Craig,
I am not trying to defend Jab Canada. I dont know them. And you do make a
couple good points.
I think I am trying to suggest a little understanding on the part of
customers. I dont disagree with your point of view that emails deserve a response.
However, I am admitting that I have not always answered emails
quickly...either from fatigue or the difficulty of dealing with the question.
You are
a better man (or more driven?) than I am to work 18 hour days. I try to
quit after 12. :)
I think that if customers can build a relationship and ask for what they
want rather than demand; they also get better service. I find it very difficult
to say "no" to some one ASKING from my help and much easier to say "NO" to
someone who DEMANDS I do something.
I would point out that the only way you would know that your emails have
been spam filtered is if someone calls on the phone and tells you! For that
matter, how would you know if your phone was filtering out calls unless
someone sent you an email to complain?!
The other reality with experimental aircraft engines is that unless you like
engine-outs, your choices in the 50-120 HP range with a weight less than 160
lbs is either Rotax or Jabiru. You may not like that, but ...
doug
************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
Message 9
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> The other reality with experimental aircraft engines is
> that unless you like engine-outs, your choices in the
> 50-120 HP range with a weight less than 160 lbs is
> either Rotax or Jabiru. You may not like that, but ...
Oh, I have no problems with Jabiru engines. I'm on my second one in less
than 100 hours so I must like them, right? :-)
Craig
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