Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:32 AM - RE : Deposits in Oil Filter (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?=)
2. 05:18 AM - RE : Deposits in Oil Filter (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?=)
3. 09:52 AM - Jabiru 3300 on ebay (promod69camaro)
4. 10:23 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay (Rob Turk)
5. 10:46 AM - Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/21/07 (E.T.Gmerek)
6. 03:58 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay (Peter Harris)
7. 04:09 PM - Re: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/21/07 (Peter Harris)
8. 04:25 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay (promod69camaro)
9. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay (Peter Harris)
10. 05:27 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay (promod69camaro)
11. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay (Peter Harris)
12. 05:49 PM - Prop speed reduction unit (PSRU) (promod69camaro)
13. 06:05 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay (promod69camaro)
14. 07:07 PM - Re: DYNAMIC BALANCE (promod69camaro)
15. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay (Peter Harris)
16. 08:03 PM - Re: Re: DYNAMIC BALANCE (Peter Harris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Deposits in Oil Filter |
De : owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de
Peter
Harris
Jerome,
The picture looks like white particles on an orange thumb !
Sorry, I=92ll use a white paper next time. All particles on the paper
are
orange.
I did not find orange coloured particles.
In my oil filter, it was impossible not to see them. So perhaps it=92s
not
really =93normal=94 to find them ;o)
If this is the first filter scan there may be traces of sealant or
something
else.
The particles are really brilliants. It=92s impossible to confuse with
sealant.
It would be best to ask the dealer who would have wider experience.
Of course I asked my dealer. He has no information to tell me if it=92s
a
normal wear during break=92 in or not.
I will send my oil to analysis, but without a real feedback of Jabiru I
can
just compare with a precedent analysis. By this way, it=92s just
possible to
detect when a NEW problem occur.
JABIRU SHOULD GIVE US A TYPICAL ANALISYS OF WHAT WE SHOULD FIND IN THE
OIL.
So, we could diagnostic problems during the first hours of the motors.
Are you sure it is not rust?
Yes ;o)
Peter H
Thank you for your feed back Peter.
J=E9rme
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
J=E9rme
Delamare
Sent: Thursday, 23 August 2007 9:11 PM
Subject: RE : JabiruEngine-List: Deposits in Oil Filter
Peter you=92re right!
This morning, I tested again with a magnet the deposits obtained after
filtering. Nothing!
But=85 When I tested the fuel used to wash the oil filter with the same
magnet, I found magnetic particles! (sorry, I didn=92t had my camera
this
morning)
The particles are so small that they pass thru the paper during
filtering!
Of course, it=92s normal to find this magnetic dust. But is it normal to
find
those orange particles (size, quantity)?
http://jeromedelamare.free.fr/deposit/DSCN3651.JPG
Did you, or someone else, observed those orange particles too?
Is there a link with those particles and a lubrication problem as
observed
by Martin?
J=E9rme
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de
Peter
Harris
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 23 ao=FBt 2007 00:02
=C0 : jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Objet : RE: JabiruEngine-List: Deposits in Oil Filter
Jerome as I understand it there will normally be some magnetic particles
due
to the bedding in of the rings. I found a significant amount in mine at
15hrs. There should be no non magnetic bearing material which is
normally
white.
Peter H
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
J=E9rme
Delamare
Sent: Wednesday, 22 August 2007 5:38 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Deposits in Oil Filter
Jabachat of May 2007 advise to cut the filter and wash it in fuel in
order
to look for deposit:
http://www.jabiru.net.au/Jabachat/Jaba%20Chat%20May%20%202007.pdf
I did it after the first 25 hours. My friend Marc cut the filter
carefully
(no dust). After filtering the fuel:
* http://jeromedelamare.free.fr/deposit/DSCN3651.JPG
* Test with a magnet : no magnetic parts
* Visual inspection: very small orange metal dust (valve guide?)
Is it =93normal=94 ?
I would like to send the oil for analysis but I have no reference to
compare. What and in which quantity should I find in a =93normal=94
analysis?
J=E9rme
P.S.
Jabiru 2200 N=B02092, hydraulic lifter, SB13 before first run, oil
cooler,
break in with Aeroshell 100, +0,3l of oil during 25 hours of break in,
maximum temps never exceed)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Deposits in Oil Filter |
Thank you Andy,
I appreciate that you've answered my question. I just would like to be
sure
not to find a problem too late as other people on this list.
For the moment my engine works fine!
J=E9rme
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Andy
Silvester
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 23 ao=FBt 2007 13:45
=C0 : jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Objet : RE: JabiruEngine-List: Deposits in Oil Filter
Jerome,
It=92s normal to find very small amounts of both ferrous (magnetic) and
non-ferrous material during the break-in phase. The crankshaft and
rod-end
bearings are probably contributing to the orange dust, as they bed-in.
Any
ferrous dust is coming from cylinder bores and / or piston rings as the
honed surfaces are bedded-in. It=92s good that you have taken the time
to
check at this stage, but more important to check later in the engine=92s
life
(say at 300 ' 400 hours). Bearing material being deposited in the
filter at
that stage indicates wider problems.
Andy
Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
39248 South Ave, Zephyrhills, FL 33542
Tel: (813) 779 2324 Fax: (813) 779 2246
www.suncoastjabiru.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
J=E9rme
Delamare
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 4:38 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Deposits in Oil Filter
Jabachat of May 2007 advise to cut the filter and wash it in fuel in
order
to look for deposit:
http://www.jabiru.net.au/Jabachat/Jaba%20Chat%20May%20%202007.pdf
I did it after the first 25 hours. My friend Marc cut the filter
carefully
(no dust). After filtering the fuel:
* http://jeromedelamare.free.fr/deposit/DSCN3651.JPG
* Test with a magnet : no magnetic parts
* Visual inspection: very small orange metal dust (valve guide?)
Is it =93normal=94 ?
I would like to send the oil for analysis but I have no reference to
compare. What and in which quantity should I find in a =93normal=94
analysis?
J=E9rme
P.S.
Jabiru 2200 N=B02092, hydraulic lifter, SB13 before first run, oil
cooler,
break in with Aeroshell 100, +0,3l of oil during 25 hours of break in,
maximum temps never exceed)
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
Hi everyone. First post here...I think. Yesterday, I bid on and won a Jabiru
3300 on ebay. It is located in New Zealand. I have not heard back from the person
who is selling it yet.
Do any of you happen to know of this engine? I want to make sure it exist and
is not a scam of some sort. I am not implying a scam, I just want to make sure
I am not taken advantage of.
The reason I ask is because no one bid against me and it ended up a really nice
bargain if I can just get my hands on it.
Thanks,
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130788#130788
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
Hi Shawn,
If things went the way you say then you are one lucky b*stard..
Congratulations!
Make sure you get all records with the engine before paying good money. Ask
the current owner for the engine history. Watch out for signs of a prop
strike. You will want to get the serial number of this engine and post it
here for comments. Old engines may require some work to get to good
condition again. There are a few known stolen engines as well. Make sure you
don't buy one of those or you'll end up having no source for spares...
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "promod69camaro" <shawn-bishop@verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 6:51 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 3300 on ebay
> <shawn-bishop@verizon.net>
>
> Hi everyone. First post here...I think. Yesterday, I bid on and won a
> Jabiru 3300 on ebay. It is located in New Zealand. I have not heard back
> from the person who is selling it yet.
> Do any of you happen to know of this engine? I want to make sure it exist
> and is not a scam of some sort. I am not implying a scam, I just want to
> make sure I am not taken advantage of.
> The reason I ask is because no one bid against me and it ended up a really
> nice bargain if I can just get my hands on it.
> Thanks,
> Shawn
>
> --------
> Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130788#130788
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/21/07 |
Topic: Static RPM on a Jabiru 3300 with Sensenich Carbon
Fiber Adjustable Prop on a 601XL
I have an older Jab 3300 with low (50 +/-)hours, solid lifters. I have
recently changed out my original Bing Carburetor with a NOS Bing without
the 'Economizer' change. The difference has been dramatic, a top RPM
increase of 200RPM without any change to Prop setting. My question is
this: what should the static RPM be? What is the prop setting used by
most on a 601XL with Jab 3300 on a 601XL, and what are the
RPMs/indicated airspeeds seen with these settings?
Many thanks in advance.
Ed Gmerek
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JabiruEngine-List Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/21/07
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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Today's complete JabiruEngine-List Digest can also be found in either of
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===============================================
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----------------------------------------------------------
JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Tue 08/21/07: 9
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300 (gary aman)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300 (Craig Rairdin)
3. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300 ()
4. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300 (Craig Rairdin)
5. 09:48 AM - Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location (DanM)
6. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location (Andy
Silvester)
7. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location (Rob
Turk)
8. 12:05 PM - Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location (DanM)
9. 02:47 PM - DYNAMIC BALANCE (Peter Harris)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 06:34:09 AM PST US
From: gary aman <gaman@att.net>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
The security the switch gives is its best feature.You can easily wire
from the
master a second lead to a push button tied to the starter energize
terminal.
G Aman kolb MK-3 2200
I'm not flying my CH601XL yet but I second that suggestion. I went with
an aircraft
type key switch "Off, Right, Left, Both, Start" from ACS but if I were
doing
it again, I would use two toggle switches for the right and left mag and
a
start button. One obvious benefit is that when you are doing maintenance
or daignostics,
you can spin the engine with the starter while the mag switches are
off. The key won't allow that.
Dred
---- wypaul wrote:
>
> I used the ACS switch from Aircraft Spruce, but if I were doing it
today I would
just use toggle switches and a push-button. They are lighter, available
anywhere
and cheaper.
>
> Paul Spackman
> Q-2 3300 Jabiru
>
> --------
> Paul Spackman
> Q-2 Jabiru 3300
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129933#129933
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 07:16:46 AM PST US
From: "Craig Rairdin" <craig@craigr.com>
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
I had a Baron that didn't require a key but had a rotating key-like
switch
for the mags and starter. Since it didn't require a key, in order to
provide
some security there was a mic jack labelled COM3 inline with the
starter.
You had to insert a mic plug that had its tip and ring shorted to
provide a
connection for the starter. When you removed this plug the plane
wouldn't
start. Made it very difficult to steal. :-)
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
aman
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
The security the switch gives is its best feature.You can easily wire
from
the master a second lead to a push button tied to the starter energize
terminal.
G Aman kolb MK-3 2200
dredmoody@cox.net wrote:
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 09:00:14 AM PST US
From: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
Thanks Craig, you have given me a good idea there. My key switch will of
course
provide the anti-theft protection since without it, the mags can't be
turned
on. I may use your shorted out 1/4" male mono plug as a more permanent
way to
activate the starter solenoid with the mags switched off.
I didn't like the idea of a permanently installed second starter switch
because
of the likelihood of activating it accidently. The extra jack labeled
"Starter"
could not be activated without having the shorted out plug inserted.
That's
enough safety for me, and as I said, it doesn't have to be camouflaged
with a
misleading label for security in my case.
Thanks again for the idea,
Dred
---- Craig Rairdin <craig@craigr.com> wrote:
> I had a Baron that didn't require a key but had a rotating key-like
switch
> for the mags and starter. Since it didn't require a key, in order to
provide
> some security there was a mic jack labelled COM3 inline with the
starter.
> You had to insert a mic plug that had its tip and ring shorted to
provide a
> connection for the starter. When you removed this plug the plane
wouldn't
> start. Made it very difficult to steal. :-)
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 09:17:15 AM PST US
From: "Craig Rairdin" <craig@craigr.com>
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
I put the plug on a key chain that had the door keys on it so it was
easy to
keep track of. It sure fooled the mechanics when I didn't leave the keys
in
the airplane but instead handed them to them. I got more than one call
(from
the same guy each time) telling me they had a problem they couldn't
figure
out ... The plane wasn't starting no matter what they tried. :-)
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dredmoody@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
Thanks Craig, you have given me a good idea there. My key switch will of
course provide the anti-theft protection since without it, the mags
can't be
turned on. I may use your shorted out 1/4" male mono plug as a more
permanent way to activate the starter solenoid with the mags switched
off.
I didn't like the idea of a permanently installed second starter switch
because of the likelihood of activating it accidently. The extra jack
labeled "Starter" could not be activated without having the shorted out
plug
inserted. That's enough safety for me, and as I said, it doesn't have to
be
camouflaged with a misleading label for security in my case.
Thanks again for the idea,
Dred
---- Craig Rairdin <craig@craigr.com> wrote:
> I had a Baron that didn't require a key but had a rotating key-like
switch
> for the mags and starter. Since it didn't require a key, in order to
provide
> some security there was a mic jack labelled COM3 inline with the
starter.
> You had to insert a mic plug that had its tip and ring shorted to
provide
a
> connection for the starter. When you removed this plug the plane
wouldn't
> start. Made it very difficult to steal. :-)
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 09:48:52 AM PST US
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
From: "DanM" <danm@gangnailtruss.com>
So guys, is it ok to use the lower port?
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130119#130119
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 10:24:18 AM PST US
From: "Andy Silvester" <andy@suncoastjabiru.com>
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
Dan,
Yes, it's OK to use the lower port. I've looked at the Drawing Rob
refers
to, and I think it's wrong. It's ambiguous the way it's drawn, showing
the
connection through the oil pump output port, and down into the gallery,
when
in fact the connection should stop at the (upper) pump output port. I'll
clarify with Jabiru and will post here if different. However, I've
measured
the pressure at both points, and the lower port is definitely at a lower
pressure, consistent with it being after the cooler and filter. I note
that
the drawing isn't included in the later manual version for hydraulic
lifters!
Andy
Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
39248 South Ave, Zephyrhills, FL 33542
Tel: (813) 779 2324 Fax: (813) 779 2246
www.suncoastjabiru.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DanM
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:48 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
So guys, is it ok to use the lower port?
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130119#130119
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 11:52:13 AM PST US
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics@rtist.nl>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
Andy,
Thanks for looking into this. I'm very interested to hear what Jabiru's
take
is on this.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Silvester" <andy@suncoastjabiru.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
> <andy@suncoastjabiru.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> Yes, it's OK to use the lower port. I've looked at the Drawing Rob
refers
> to, and I think it's wrong. It's ambiguous the way it's drawn, showing
the
> connection through the oil pump output port, and down into the
gallery,
> when
> in fact the connection should stop at the (upper) pump output port.
I'll
> clarify with Jabiru and will post here if different. However, I've
> measured
> the pressure at both points, and the lower port is definitely at a
lower
> pressure, consistent with it being after the cooler and filter. I note
> that
> the drawing isn't included in the later manual version for hydraulic
> lifters!
>
> Andy
> Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
> 39248 South Ave, Zephyrhills, FL 33542
> Tel: (813) 779 2324 Fax: (813) 779 2246
> www.suncoastjabiru.com
>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 12:05:51 PM PST US
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
From: "DanM" <danm@gangnailtruss.com>
Thanks Andy & Rob, I'll watch the forum for any additional info on this
subject.
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130146#130146
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 02:47:00 PM PST US
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: DYNAMIC BALANCE
As a result of finding several instances of a low frequency vibration I
took
the opportunity when we had a week of bad weather to remove the prop ,
spinner and backing plate and spent three days balancing the set at
home.
Very boring and tedious adding and taking 2mm screws, nuts and washers I
could only do it for an hour at a time. Any draft in the house and the
prop
would move. When it was perfect and soon after in flight I got a very
bad
scary low frequency vibration when decelerating and turning left at
about
140KTS.Maybe precession triggered it off. Reducing throttle did not
immediately help.
I got the set up dynamically balanced and it took a 3/4X 7/16" bolt with
nut
and two washers to correct the dynamic balance. I had been very
satisfied
with the engine running but it ran smoother than ever before when the
first
weight was fitted. The difference was very obvious. The prop/spinner and
backing plate are now NO WAY in static balance. I have marked the parts
and
the prop shaft. The job took 4/4 hour and was done in the hangar.
It means that it was my engine that was badly out of balance and is now
corrected by the dynamic balancing of the prop/backing plate.
It means that if flywheel bolts are breaking it could be due to a poorly
balanced engine. My 3300 engine was factory rebuilt to zero hours in
2006.
Based on my experience I would recommend that all users get a proper
dynamic
balance, making sure that the backing plate and spinner are in good
sound
condition at the same time.
I understand that Pete and some others have got the equipment to do the
job.
Peter H
8/22/2007 9:05 AM
8/22/2007 9:05 AM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
Shawn have you researched the serial number and the bulletins? There have
been a number of improvements to the 3300 since it was first released.Where
are you located?
Peter H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
promod69camaro
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 2:51 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jabiru 3300 on ebay
<shawn-bishop@verizon.net>
Hi everyone. First post here...I think. Yesterday, I bid on and won a
Jabiru 3300 on ebay. It is located in New Zealand. I have not heard back
from the person who is selling it yet.
Do any of you happen to know of this engine? I want to make sure it exist
and is not a scam of some sort. I am not implying a scam, I just want to
make sure I am not taken advantage of.
The reason I ask is because no one bid against me and it ended up a really
nice bargain if I can just get my hands on it.
Thanks,
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130788#130788
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/21/07 |
Ed watch out for excessive EGT with the new set up. I conducted a lot of
experiments with the Bing/econ carb supplied and found that with the mech
pump feed the float needle valve seat (2.25mm) leaks causing excessive rich
mixture and loss of performance above 2750RPM but EGT was only 620 deg. I
then fitted the smaller seats recommended by Bing for pump feed (1.5mm) and
saved 5LPH with marginal but OK EGT but even this seat leaked when the
electric boost pump was started, back to 37LPH.
I think you need to monitor EGT if departing from the original settings.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
E.T.Gmerek
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 3:46 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: RE: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/21/07
<jptook@jptook.cnc.net>
Topic: Static RPM on a Jabiru 3300 with Sensenich Carbon
Fiber Adjustable Prop on a 601XL
I have an older Jab 3300 with low (50 +/-)hours, solid lifters. I have
recently changed out my original Bing Carburetor with a NOS Bing without
the 'Economizer' change. The difference has been dramatic, a top RPM
increase of 200RPM without any change to Prop setting. My question is
this: what should the static RPM be? What is the prop setting used by
most on a 601XL with Jab 3300 on a 601XL, and what are the
RPMs/indicated airspeeds seen with these settings?
Many thanks in advance.
Ed Gmerek
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JabiruEngine-List Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:58 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 08/21/07
*
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Total Messages Posted Tue 08/21/07: 9
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300 (gary aman)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300 (Craig Rairdin)
3. 09:00 AM - Re: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300 ()
4. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300 (Craig Rairdin)
5. 09:48 AM - Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location (DanM)
6. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location (Andy
Silvester)
7. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location (Rob
Turk)
8. 12:05 PM - Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location (DanM)
9. 02:47 PM - DYNAMIC BALANCE (Peter Harris)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 06:34:09 AM PST US
From: gary aman <gaman@att.net>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
The security the switch gives is its best feature.You can easily wire
from the
master a second lead to a push button tied to the starter energize
terminal.
G Aman kolb MK-3 2200
I'm not flying my CH601XL yet but I second that suggestion. I went with
an aircraft
type key switch "Off, Right, Left, Both, Start" from ACS but if I were
doing
it again, I would use two toggle switches for the right and left mag and
a
start button. One obvious benefit is that when you are doing maintenance
or daignostics,
you can spin the engine with the starter while the mag switches are
off. The key won't allow that.
Dred
---- wypaul wrote:
>
> I used the ACS switch from Aircraft Spruce, but if I were doing it
today I would
just use toggle switches and a push-button. They are lighter, available
anywhere
and cheaper.
>
> Paul Spackman
> Q-2 3300 Jabiru
>
> --------
> Paul Spackman
> Q-2 Jabiru 3300
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=129933#129933
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 07:16:46 AM PST US
From: "Craig Rairdin" <craig@craigr.com>
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
I had a Baron that didn't require a key but had a rotating key-like
switch
for the mags and starter. Since it didn't require a key, in order to
provide
some security there was a mic jack labelled COM3 inline with the
starter.
You had to insert a mic plug that had its tip and ring shorted to
provide a
connection for the starter. When you removed this plug the plane
wouldn't
start. Made it very difficult to steal. :-)
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary
aman
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
The security the switch gives is its best feature.You can easily wire
from
the master a second lead to a push button tied to the starter energize
terminal.
G Aman kolb MK-3 2200
dredmoody@cox.net wrote:
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 09:00:14 AM PST US
From: <dredmoody@cox.net>
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
Thanks Craig, you have given me a good idea there. My key switch will of
course
provide the anti-theft protection since without it, the mags can't be
turned
on. I may use your shorted out 1/4" male mono plug as a more permanent
way to
activate the starter solenoid with the mags switched off.
I didn't like the idea of a permanently installed second starter switch
because
of the likelihood of activating it accidently. The extra jack labeled
"Starter"
could not be activated without having the shorted out plug inserted.
That's
enough safety for me, and as I said, it doesn't have to be camouflaged
with a
misleading label for security in my case.
Thanks again for the idea,
Dred
---- Craig Rairdin <craig@craigr.com> wrote:
> I had a Baron that didn't require a key but had a rotating key-like
switch
> for the mags and starter. Since it didn't require a key, in order to
provide
> some security there was a mic jack labelled COM3 inline with the
starter.
> You had to insert a mic plug that had its tip and ring shorted to
provide a
> connection for the starter. When you removed this plug the plane
wouldn't
> start. Made it very difficult to steal. :-)
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 09:17:15 AM PST US
From: "Craig Rairdin" <craig@craigr.com>
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
I put the plug on a key chain that had the door keys on it so it was
easy to
keep track of. It sure fooled the mechanics when I didn't leave the keys
in
the airplane but instead handed them to them. I got more than one call
(from
the same guy each time) telling me they had a problem they couldn't
figure
out ... The plane wasn't starting no matter what they tried. :-)
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dredmoody@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Key Switch for JAB 3300
Thanks Craig, you have given me a good idea there. My key switch will of
course provide the anti-theft protection since without it, the mags
can't be
turned on. I may use your shorted out 1/4" male mono plug as a more
permanent way to activate the starter solenoid with the mags switched
off.
I didn't like the idea of a permanently installed second starter switch
because of the likelihood of activating it accidently. The extra jack
labeled "Starter" could not be activated without having the shorted out
plug
inserted. That's enough safety for me, and as I said, it doesn't have to
be
camouflaged with a misleading label for security in my case.
Thanks again for the idea,
Dred
---- Craig Rairdin <craig@craigr.com> wrote:
> I had a Baron that didn't require a key but had a rotating key-like
switch
> for the mags and starter. Since it didn't require a key, in order to
provide
> some security there was a mic jack labelled COM3 inline with the
starter.
> You had to insert a mic plug that had its tip and ring shorted to
provide
a
> connection for the starter. When you removed this plug the plane
wouldn't
> start. Made it very difficult to steal. :-)
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 09:48:52 AM PST US
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
From: "DanM" <danm@gangnailtruss.com>
So guys, is it ok to use the lower port?
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130119#130119
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 10:24:18 AM PST US
From: "Andy Silvester" <andy@suncoastjabiru.com>
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
Dan,
Yes, it's OK to use the lower port. I've looked at the Drawing Rob
refers
to, and I think it's wrong. It's ambiguous the way it's drawn, showing
the
connection through the oil pump output port, and down into the gallery,
when
in fact the connection should stop at the (upper) pump output port. I'll
clarify with Jabiru and will post here if different. However, I've
measured
the pressure at both points, and the lower port is definitely at a lower
pressure, consistent with it being after the cooler and filter. I note
that
the drawing isn't included in the later manual version for hydraulic
lifters!
Andy
Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
39248 South Ave, Zephyrhills, FL 33542
Tel: (813) 779 2324 Fax: (813) 779 2246
www.suncoastjabiru.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DanM
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:48 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
So guys, is it ok to use the lower port?
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130119#130119
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 11:52:13 AM PST US
From: "Rob Turk" <matronics@rtist.nl>
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
Andy,
Thanks for looking into this. I'm very interested to hear what Jabiru's
take
is on this.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Silvester" <andy@suncoastjabiru.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:11 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
> <andy@suncoastjabiru.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> Yes, it's OK to use the lower port. I've looked at the Drawing Rob
refers
> to, and I think it's wrong. It's ambiguous the way it's drawn, showing
the
> connection through the oil pump output port, and down into the
gallery,
> when
> in fact the connection should stop at the (upper) pump output port.
I'll
> clarify with Jabiru and will post here if different. However, I've
> measured
> the pressure at both points, and the lower port is definitely at a
lower
> pressure, consistent with it being after the cooler and filter. I note
> that
> the drawing isn't included in the later manual version for hydraulic
> lifters!
>
> Andy
> Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
> 39248 South Ave, Zephyrhills, FL 33542
> Tel: (813) 779 2324 Fax: (813) 779 2246
> www.suncoastjabiru.com
>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 12:05:51 PM PST US
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Oil Pressure Sending unit location
From: "DanM" <danm@gangnailtruss.com>
Thanks Andy & Rob, I'll watch the forum for any additional info on this
subject.
--------
Dan Mc Intyre
Kitfox Model IV, Jab 2200
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130146#130146
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 02:47:00 PM PST US
From: "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: DYNAMIC BALANCE
As a result of finding several instances of a low frequency vibration I
took
the opportunity when we had a week of bad weather to remove the prop ,
spinner and backing plate and spent three days balancing the set at
home.
Very boring and tedious adding and taking 2mm screws, nuts and washers I
could only do it for an hour at a time. Any draft in the house and the
prop
would move. When it was perfect and soon after in flight I got a very
bad
scary low frequency vibration when decelerating and turning left at
about
140KTS.Maybe precession triggered it off. Reducing throttle did not
immediately help.
I got the set up dynamically balanced and it took a 3/4X 7/16" bolt with
nut
and two washers to correct the dynamic balance. I had been very
satisfied
with the engine running but it ran smoother than ever before when the
first
weight was fitted. The difference was very obvious. The prop/spinner and
backing plate are now NO WAY in static balance. I have marked the parts
and
the prop shaft. The job took 4/4 hour and was done in the hangar.
It means that it was my engine that was badly out of balance and is now
corrected by the dynamic balancing of the prop/backing plate.
It means that if flywheel bolts are breaking it could be due to a poorly
balanced engine. My 3300 engine was factory rebuilt to zero hours in
2006.
Based on my experience I would recommend that all users get a proper
dynamic
balance, making sure that the backing plate and spinner are in good
sound
condition at the same time.
I understand that Pete and some others have got the equipment to do the
job.
Peter H
8/22/2007 9:05 AM
8/22/2007 9:05 AM
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
Thanks for the information guys. I have emailed the seller and requested the serial
number. I understand that it was made just prior to the change to hydrolic
lifters. They say that they purchased several engines at the same time but
did not finish the projects. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they will
give me the serial number so I can verify that its not stolen.
Thanks
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130863#130863
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
I have an engine that was factory rebuilt about the same time.Good luck.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
promod69camaro
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay
<shawn-bishop@verizon.net>
Thanks for the information guys. I have emailed the seller and requested
the serial number. I understand that it was made just prior to the change
to hydrolic lifters. They say that they purchased several engines at the
same time but did not finish the projects. I am keeping my fingers crossed
that they will give me the serial number so I can verify that its not
stolen.
Thanks
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130863#130863
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
Peter,
Are there any particular things I should know about the 3300's built at that time?
Can they be converted to hydraulic lifters with changing the cam and drilling
new lifter bores?
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130878#130878
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
Shawn,
Conversion to hydraulic lifters is so major it is not a proposition. If you
want full performance at the higher throttle settings look for an
alternative to the Bing. I found my engine was unbalanced but corrected with
dynamic balancing the prop and added weight to the backing plate. It made a
dramatic difference even though the prop was carefully static balanced
beforehand.(not now of course so all parts have been marked)
I am finishing a TBI fuel injection and have so far gained 160rpm static.
I like the engine but wary of the reports of broken flywheel bolts. Based on
my experience I think the problem is caused by unbalanced engines and not
necessarily unbalanced props.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
promod69camaro
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 10:27 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay
<shawn-bishop@verizon.net>
Peter,
Are there any particular things I should know about the 3300's built at that
time? Can they be converted to hydraulic lifters with changing the cam and
drilling new lifter bores?
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130878#130878
Message 12
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| Subject: | Prop speed reduction unit (PSRU) |
I have to ask this because it appears that I just purchased a Jabiru 3300 aircraft
engine. This may seem very silly, but I am wondering if anyone has ever put
a PRSU on a Jabiru? I am a mechanical engineer and I can't help but think
of different way to approach a project.
This is my thinking. At 3300 RPM, the propeller is not very efficient. Propellers
seem to operate much better around 2200 to 2500 RPM. And at lower RPM, there
is less prop noise to deal with. Lets say a person put a 1.5:1 reduction
PSRU on the motor, and had a new cam ground for operation to 4000 rpm if necessary,
which it probably would be. That would allow the engine to make about
25% more power, and the prop speed would slow into the more efficient speeds.
There would be cooling issues, and it would not necessarily have to run at the
higher RPM all the time.
I am sure there are all kinds of reasons not to do it. For one, its a direct drive
aircraft engine and why mess with it. But the fighter planes in WWII all
had PSRU's on them, even the radial power plants. The more engine RPM, up to
a point, the more power output. To match that with a propeller, it requires
a reduction device.
Anyway, I am interested in what you guys have to say about this. I am almost sure
some has done it.
Thanks,
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130882#130882
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
Peter,
They do perform a dynamic balance on the crank don't they? With my race car, we
balance the entire assembly to 1 gram at 4/5ths max RPM. They drill every counter
weight to reduce weight or add mallory metal. Its expensive, but so are
these engines. And in a race car, if I blow the motor, I just wait for a tow
back to the pits. Can't do that in an airplane.
Now I am going to have to open up the motor to make sure its all assembled properly,
and that the machine work is adequate.
I have a friend in Rowlett Texas who takes billet aluminum blocks and machines
them into custom engine blocks. They are crazy strong and super good looking.
I use one on my race engine. They are used in top fuel dragsters and top alcohol
engines also. Top fuel makes over 8000 hp with these blocks. Anyway, I
should ask him to sit down and take a look at the Jabiru and see if there are
any suggestions he may have for reducing vibration. He has the equipment if
he is not to busy.
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130886#130886
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: DYNAMIC BALANCE |
When you sent the engine in to be rebuilt, did they change out the pistons and/or
connecting rods? They may be using a different weight piston if so. It sounds
to me like each crank needs to by dynamically balanced with the pistons and
rods that are going into it. When I build a race engine, we match the pistons
up according to weight. Each one is weighed to find the lightest one. We
then remove material from all the others until they are all the same weight.
That way, the recipicating mass is the same through out the engine. The machinest
says it is easier to get a good rotating assembly balance this way and the
engines seem to live longer.
I sure hope that your engine is the exception and not the rule. These engines
are to expensive for basic machining to not be performed.
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130898#130898
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay |
Shawn I don't know what work is done by the factory to balance the engine if
any but I am guessing it is made symmetrical. Remember that it is designed
for comparatively low RPM. I can only report on my own personal experience.
My prop backing plate is now working as a harmonic balancer and the engine
is smooth as.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
promod69camaro
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru 3300 on ebay
<shawn-bishop@verizon.net>
Peter,
They do perform a dynamic balance on the crank don't they? With my race
car, we balance the entire assembly to 1 gram at 4/5ths max RPM. They drill
every counter weight to reduce weight or add mallory metal. Its expensive,
but so are these engines. And in a race car, if I blow the motor, I just
wait for a tow back to the pits. Can't do that in an airplane.
Now I am going to have to open up the motor to make sure its all assembled
properly, and that the machine work is adequate.
I have a friend in Rowlett Texas who takes billet aluminum blocks and
machines them into custom engine blocks. They are crazy strong and super
good looking. I use one on my race engine. They are used in top fuel
dragsters and top alcohol engines also. Top fuel makes over 8000 hp with
these blocks. Anyway, I should ask him to sit down and take a look at the
Jabiru and see if there are any suggestions he may have for reducing
vibration. He has the equipment if he is not to busy.
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130886#130886
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: DYNAMIC BALANCE |
Shawn I bought the engine rebuilt from the factory and have no details how
the job was done. It was sold to me with warranty as a zero hours engine.
When an intermittent problem low frequency vibration was not solved with
careful static prop balance I got a dynamic balance and noticed an immediate
and major improvement in running the engine . It is like a different engine.
It took a 3/4X1/4" bolt,nut and washer about 4" from centre on the backing
plate to get it right.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
promod69camaro
Sent: Saturday, 25 August 2007 12:07 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: DYNAMIC BALANCE
<shawn-bishop@verizon.net>
When you sent the engine in to be rebuilt, did they change out the pistons
and/or connecting rods? They may be using a different weight piston if so.
It sounds to me like each crank needs to by dynamically balanced with the
pistons and rods that are going into it. When I build a race engine, we
match the pistons up according to weight. Each one is weighed to find the
lightest one. We then remove material from all the others until they are
all the same weight. That way, the recipicating mass is the same through
out the engine. The machinest says it is easier to get a good rotating
assembly balance this way and the engines seem to live longer.
I sure hope that your engine is the exception and not the rule. These
engines are to expensive for basic machining to not be performed.
Shawn
--------
Sport Pilot (almost) - Waiting for good weather to take flight exam.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=130898#130898
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