Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:49 AM - Re: Jabiru OP sensor replacement (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
2. 07:26 AM - Re: dynamic balance (N1BZRich@aol.com)
3. 07:28 AM - Re: dynamic balance (N1BZRich@aol.com)
4. 08:06 AM - Re: Oil pressure problem (Rob Turk)
5. 05:24 PM - Re: dynamic balance (Peter Harris)
6. 05:26 PM - Re: dynamic balance (Peter Harris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru OP sensor replacement |
In a message dated 9/29/2007 2:59:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jabiruengine-list@matronics.com writes:
If memory serves, you were offered a replacement also...through the dealer;
which is how warrantees are handled.
If I have you confused with someone else, please let me apologize in
advance.
And then Nick said:
"I have found jabiru to be very excellent in their warrenty claims. No
hassles or
problems here getting any items taken care of. I beleive maybe you are going
about your claim in the wrong fashion."
Hi Doug and Nick
Nope Doug, you've got me confused with somebody else. And, Nick, I've
handled my warranty situation EXACTLY as instructed by the dealer from whom I
purchased my engine. The failure to comply with the warranty apparently is on
the
factory end, not this end or the dealer's end, or so I'm told, anyway.
I was not offered a warranty replacement OP sensor directly, despite my
insistence that it should be covered under the warranty. I was told that I had
to purchase the replacement VDO sensor. I was instructed to return the old
sensor to the dealer and the old sensor would be sent back to Jabiru and a
credit would be issued from the factory and forwarded to me. In fact, I just
reviewed the e-mail correspondences between myself and the dealer regarding this
issue that were sent a year ago so that I would accurately repeat what
happened here for your review. So, this is an accurate representation of what
occurred.
My original OP sensor was sent back to the dealer close to a over a year
and a half ago, but no warranty credit was ever issued by Jabiru. I did indeed
purchase the replacement VDO OP sensor I installed at about 30 hours and I
was told at the time it would indeed be covered under the factory warranty, but
it might take a while for the factory to make good on it. To date, that
warranty replacement has not happened. Ditto the two replacement coils I've
purchased that, IMO, should have also been covered by warranty since one was
failed at first start up and the other failed at about 30 hours.
I would think that a year and a half is more than ample time to comply with
a warranty issue, don't you?
Both replacement coils I received were considerably different from what came
on my engine. I suspect that the original coils were probably robbed off a
2200, since they closely resemble what I've seen installed on the 2200. I
believe the original coils were simply too small and could not stand the current
flow needed to supply fire to 6 plugs instead of 4. I hold an MSEE from
Georgia Tech and as such I'm pretty familiar with all things electrical and how
they work. Coil sizing is a pretty simple affair in the grand scheme of things
and it doesn't take my level of education to realize what the problem was
with the original coils, especially since they both failed on the secondary
side. The replacement coils, purchased from two different Jab dealers, were
identical to each other and considerably larger than the originals. The two
replacment coils have a much different orientation than the originals. This seems
to indicate that either Jabiru knew they had a problem with the smaller coils
and switched to the larger ones after my engine was shipped, or the original
coils sent on the engine were not the correct size. The new and old coils
were probably from the same vendor, though. Interestingly, one of the coils I
received from a dealer, and not the dealer I bought my engine from, was used,
but I was charged full retail as if it were new. The used coil worked, but
this is as ethically questionable as Jabiru's failure to honor their warranty.
I took a series of pictures of both the original coils and the replacement
coils, side by side, to illustrate the difference between the two and sent the
pictures via e-mail to my dealer on the same day I returned the coils for
replacement. That didn't help one iota.
FWIW, I'm in no way slamming the dealer where I purchased my engine. His
support outside these issues has been excellent. From what I have been told by
the dealer from whom I purchased my engine, the problem with the warranty
replacement on both the coils and the OP sensor is with the factory, not the
dealer. Apparently, Jabiru leaves warranty issues to the dealer's to be handled
"out of pocket". My dealer offered me a $200 credit out of his pocket. Nice
gesture, but that hardly covers half of what I spent on 2 coils and an OP
sensor, plus shipping. I also don't think it's right that the dealer should have
to pay for a warranty replacement out of his pocket for a factory problem.
Jabiru might well think this is an acceptable business practice, but, it is not
what their warranty states. Having been a dealer for various ultralight
manufacturers over the years, and a Rotax dealer, too, I view this practice as
a
wee bit less than ethical.
The real question is what would Jabiru do if this were a really serious
warranty issue requiring expensive replacement parts like a head or a crankshaft?
I think we've all seen the answer to that question vividly illustrated here.
If they won't replace something as rudimentary as a coil or an OP sensor
under warranty, they sure as hell aren't going to replace a crank if it fails
in
the warranty period.
I really, really like the 3300, especially when compared to the Rotax 912s.
The Jabiru factory support, however, leaves a lot to be desired, even when
you compare them to Rotax factory support, which also leaves a lot to be
desired. FYI, I also own an AMT 200S Super Ximango that has a certified 912S
installed and I do direct comparisons all the time between the two. The 3300 is
a
superior engine to the 912s in a lot of respects, but the way these warranty
issues have been handled, or not handled, will certainly affect any decision I
might make in the future in terms of purchasing another engine from Jabiru
for a future project should the need arise. I certainly bring it up as a topic
of discussion anytime anybody asks me what I think about Jabiru engines,
too. I spent $15,000+ on this engine and I expected, at the very least, basic
support from the factory, but that clearly ain't gonna happen. Based on the
correspondence I've received from other Jab owners, I'm not alone in this
expectation or in the end result of warranty claims.
The cost of the coils and the OP sensor certainly aren't going to break me
and this issue really isn't about money at this point. It's about ethical
business practice. All I'm saying is don't expect Jabiru to honor their warranty
because, at least in my case, they've refused to honor the most basic and
least expensive warranty claim they are likley to see with a 3300. My experience
has been that they choose to not honor their warranty, despite how squeaky
the wheel gets, but rather ignore their customer and leave it to the dealer to
handle as he sees fit. If ya'll have had good luck dealing with them I'm
happy for you. I have not had any success gettting them to honor their warranty
despite doing exactly as I was instructed. (and I know how to squeak pretty
loud if I'm provoked)
In other words, plainly stated, let the buyer beware. That Jabiru factory
warranty you received with your engine isn't what you think it is and I've got
overwhelming proof that Jabiru does not honor their warranty on even the most
basic issues, like coils and OP sensors.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: dynamic balance |
Peter,
Good information. Do you have the equipment to do the dynamic balance
or did you have it commercially done? So far, any prop/spinner vibration that
I have felt on several different 3300 powered airplanes has turned out to be
the fiberglass spinner or back plate that was way out of balance. I feel
sure that aluminum spinners will turn out to be much better balanced from the
source.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: dynamic balance |
Peter, I forgot to ask what prop you are using?
Buz
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Oil pressure problem |
Thanks Ronald, and Gilles as well. I'll do a few more tests based on
your input.
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald Deutch
To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Oil pressure problem
Light Plane Maintenance -- Sept 2007 describes a similar issue for a
different engine however it may be useful. I quote the parts that are
of interest:
....It only takes a slight change in oil temperature to cause a
significant change in pressure....(talks about using washers under
relief valve spring to get some added pressure) ....Before you do
anything else, a check of the drop across the engine is warranted.
First warm up the engine to operating temperature. Connect a pressure
gauge to any output fitting on the back of the oil pump or some place
close to the pump --.. can also be a fitting in the oil galley..... Then
attach a (another) pressure gauge to the left front galley on the case
(continues about how but may not be applicable to Jabiru engine) .....
Check the oil pressure on both gauges with the oil hot and record
reading at idle and in cruise configeration. The drop across the engine
should be around 8 to 15 PSI. If the drop is around 20 PSI or more,
then internal clearances -- bearings, cam followers, etc are affecting
the pressure.
If the drop is fine, then your loss in pressure is caused by a
relief valve that is relieving oil pressure too much, or work needs to
be done to the baffling and oil cooler to lower the temperature a bit.
Continues but not relevant. Unquote.
that gives answers, not web links.
Message 5
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Buz,
It was the local maintenance shop that did the job. We did it in the hangar
as they wanted no wind factor and ran it up to 2700RPM static with the tail
wheel tied to a post. The equipment cost over $6000. A vibration sensor was
bolted to the crank case near centre top and a laser read rpm and position
from a reflector on the prop. A very accurate electronic scale was used to
weigh the washers which were intitially attached to a spinner attach screw.
Finally we computed a larger equivalent weight to attach out of sight on the
backing plate. iWe ran it up three times with minor adjustments to the
weight but from the first weight attachment the engine ran remarkably
smoother.
I think Pete has got the equipment, not sure where you both are. I am in
Queensland OZ.
Regards
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, 30 September 2007 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: dynamic balance
Peter,
Good information. Do you have the equipment to do the dynamic balance
or did you have it commercially done? So far, any prop/spinner vibration
that I have felt on several different 3300 powered airplanes has turned out
to be the fiberglass spinner or back plate that was way out of balance. I
feel sure that aluminum spinners will turn out to be much better balanced
from the source.
Blue Skies,
Buz
_____
See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 6
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Buz
It is made by Ed Sterba, a 55X 72" pitch.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N1BZRich@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, 30 September 2007 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: dynamic balance
Peter, I forgot to ask what prop you are using?
Buz
_____
See what's new atblank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
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