Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru OP sensor replacement (Jabiru USA)
2. 01:40 PM - Re: 3300 OP sensor (Rob Turk)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Jabiru OP sensor replacement |
This business about Jabiru not covering warranty is not what Jabiru USA has
experienced. Over the last seven years we've sold about 1000 engines and
have presented Jabiru with several warranty issues for both OP senders and
Ignition coils. Those claims have always been honored without question.
Do you still have your old coils or OP sender? If so send them to me and
I'll get the warranty replacements for you.
As for coils being different - there is no difference in the coils on any of
the Jabiru engines including the 4, 6, or 8 cylinder. The only difference
is that in years past the length of the lead was different on the 4 vs the 6
but for the last while the lengths have been the same. There is no way
yours could have come from a 2200 as the leads would have been too short to
work on the 3300. The only way your coils could have been different is if
you had one of the engines that were produced in 2003 that had the "Leading
GX" coils that Jabiru found to be not up to the task and offered a
replacement for back in 2003 & 2004.
If you are referring to the ignition coil that Jabiru USA sent you as used -
it was taken off a brand new engine as we didn't have a coils in stock at
the time so in effect it was used but only for the short break in run at the
Jabiru factory. We did not consider it a "used" unit and were happy to
open up an engine box and take it off a new engine rather than keep you
waiting for our stock to arrive. In any case - if you still have your old
coils send them to me and I'll get a warranty replacement in short order.
Support for Jabiru engines comes directly from the dealer who by contract is
required to handle these situations. Jabiru USA would be happy to handle it
for you.
Pete
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 8:48 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Jabiru OP sensor replacement
In a message dated 9/29/2007 2:59:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jabiruengine-list@matronics.com writes:
If memory serves, you were offered a replacement also...through the dealer;
which is how warrantees are handled.
If I have you confused with someone else, please let me apologize in
advance.
And then Nick said:
"I have found jabiru to be very excellent in their warrenty claims. No
hassles or
problems here getting any items taken care of. I beleive maybe you are going
about your claim in the wrong fashion."
Hi Doug and Nick
Nope Doug, you've got me confused with somebody else. And, Nick, I've
handled my warranty situation EXACTLY as instructed by the dealer from whom
I purchased my engine. The failure to comply with the warranty apparently is
on the factory end, not this end or the dealer's end, or so I'm told,
anyway.
I was not offered a warranty replacement OP sensor directly, despite my
insistence that it should be covered under the warranty. I was told that I
had to purchase the replacement VDO sensor. I was instructed to return the
old sensor to the dealer and the old sensor would be sent back to Jabiru and
a credit would be issued from the factory and forwarded to me. In fact, I
just reviewed the e-mail correspondences between myself and the dealer
regarding this issue that were sent a year ago so that I would accurately
repeat what happened here for your review. So, this is an accurate
representation of what occurred.
My original OP sensor was sent back to the dealer close to a over a year
and a half ago, but no warranty credit was ever issued by Jabiru. I did
indeed purchase the replacement VDO OP sensor I installed at about 30 hours
and I was told at the time it would indeed be covered under the factory
warranty, but it might take a while for the factory to make good on it. To
date, that warranty replacement has not happened. Ditto the two replacement
coils I've purchased that, IMO, should have also been covered by warranty
since one was failed at first start up and the other failed at about 30
hours.
I would think that a year and a half is more than ample time to comply with
a warranty issue, don't you?
Both replacement coils I received were considerably different from what came
on my engine. I suspect that the original coils were probably robbed off a
2200, since they closely resemble what I've seen installed on the 2200. I
believe the original coils were simply too small and could not stand the
current flow needed to supply fire to 6 plugs instead of 4. I hold an MSEE
from Georgia Tech and as such I'm pretty familiar with all things electrical
and how they work. Coil sizing is a pretty simple affair in the grand scheme
of things and it doesn't take my level of education to realize what the
problem was with the original coils, especially since they both failed on
the secondary side. The replacement coils, purchased from two different Jab
dealers, were identical to each other and considerably larger than the
originals. The two replacment coils have a much different orientation than
the originals. This seems to indicate that either Jabiru knew they had a
problem with the smaller coils and switched to the larger ones after my
engine was shipped, or the original coils sent on the engine were not the
correct size. The new and old coils were probably from the same vendor,
though. Interestingly, one of the coils I received from a dealer, and not
the dealer I bought my engine from, was used, but I was charged full retail
as if it were new. The used coil worked, but this is as ethically
questionable as Jabiru's failure to honor their warranty. I took a series of
pictures of both the original coils and the replacement coils, side by side,
to illustrate the difference between the two and sent the pictures via
e-mail to my dealer on the same day I returned the coils for replacement.
That didn't help one iota.
FWIW, I'm in no way slamming the dealer where I purchased my engine. His
support outside these issues has been excellent. From what I have been told
by the dealer from whom I purchased my engine, the problem with the warranty
replacement on both the coils and the OP sensor is with the factory, not the
dealer. Apparently, Jabiru leaves warranty issues to the dealer's to be
handled "out of pocket". My dealer offered me a $200 credit out of his
pocket. Nice gesture, but that hardly covers half of what I spent on 2 coils
and an OP sensor, plus shipping. I also don't think it's right that the
dealer should have to pay for a warranty replacement out of his pocket for a
factory problem. Jabiru might well think this is an acceptable business
practice, but, it is not what their warranty states. Having been a dealer
for various ultralight manufacturers over the years, and a Rotax dealer,
too, I view this practice as a wee bit less than ethical.
The real question is what would Jabiru do if this were a really serious
warranty issue requiring expensive replacement parts like a head or a
crankshaft? I think we've all seen the answer to that question vividly
illustrated here. If they won't replace something as rudimentary as a coil
or an OP sensor under warranty, they sure as hell aren't going to replace a
crank if it fails in the warranty period.
I really, really like the 3300, especially when compared to the Rotax 912s.
The Jabiru factory support, however, leaves a lot to be desired, even when
you compare them to Rotax factory support, which also leaves a lot to be
desired. FYI, I also own an AMT 200S Super Ximango that has a certified 912S
installed and I do direct comparisons all the time between the two. The 3300
is a superior engine to the 912s in a lot of respects, but the way these
warranty issues have been handled, or not handled, will certainly affect any
decision I might make in the future in terms of purchasing another engine
from Jabiru for a future project should the need arise. I certainly bring it
up as a topic of discussion anytime anybody asks me what I think about
Jabiru engines, too. I spent $15,000+ on this engine and I expected, at the
very least, basic support from the factory, but that clearly ain't gonna
happen. Based on the correspondence I've received from other Jab owners, I'm
not alone in this expectation or in the end result of warranty claims.
The cost of the coils and the OP sensor certainly aren't going to break me
and this issue really isn't about money at this point. It's about ethical
business practice. All I'm saying is don't expect Jabiru to honor their
warranty because, at least in my case, they've refused to honor the most
basic and least expensive warranty claim they are likley to see with a 3300.
My experience has been that they choose to not honor their warranty, despite
how squeaky the wheel gets, but rather ignore their customer and leave it to
the dealer to handle as he sees fit. If ya'll have had good luck dealing
with them I'm happy for you. I have not had any success gettting them to
honor their warranty despite doing exactly as I was instructed. (and I know
how to squeak pretty loud if I'm provoked)
In other words, plainly stated, let the buyer beware. That Jabiru factory
warranty you received with your engine isn't what you think it is and I've
got overwhelming proof that Jabiru does not honor their warranty on even the
most basic issues, like coils and OP sensors.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
_____
See what's new="_blank">Make AOL Your Homepage.
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 3300 OP sensor |
Hi John,
I'm actually using a different sensor. I use a Westach combined oil
pressure/oil temperature instrument (2DA3KV) and it requires it's own
pressure sensor with 0.5 - 4.5V output. If this sensor is faulty, it's
not Jabiru's fault so no need to claim warranty on it.
I still have the original sensor that came with the engine, maybe I'll
try that one with a VDO instrument for comparison.
Thanks,
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: 3300 OP sensor
In a message dated 9/28/2007 2:59:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jabiruengine-list@matronics.com writes:
Or anything else that we should
look into that might be wrong at all?
Hey Rob,
My 3300 is #756, currently with about 118 hours TT. I replaced the OP
sensor that came on the engine early on, at about 30 hours or so,
because it was showing OP fluctuations, or "flicking" as Jabiru calls
it. Andy Silvester recommended that it be changed to a VDO sensor. Since
installing the VDO OP sensor the "flicking" has gone away.
Don't expect Jabiru to honor their warranty your OP sensor, though.
Their stated warranty seems to be worth about as much as the paper it's
printed on, if it's worth that much. They exhibit very "Rotaxian"
behavior when it comes to warranty issues, IMHO.......
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
Europa N245E - Flying
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|