---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/01/07: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:33 AM - November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month! (Matt Dralle) 1. 02:09 PM - Carb jet changes (Lynn Matteson) 2. 06:02 PM - Re: Carb jet changes (Peter Harris) 3. 06:49 PM - Re: Carb jet changes (Lynn Matteson) 4. 08:49 PM - Re: Carb jet changes (Peter Harris) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:33:40 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: JabiruEngine-List: November is Matronics Email List Fund Raiser Month! Dear Listers, You've probably noticed that there are no banner ads or pop-up windows or spam from any of the List and Forum services at Matronics. These include, for example: The Email List Postings - http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse The Email List Forum Site - http://forums.matronics.com The List Wiki - http://wiki.matronics.com The List Search Engine - http://www.matronics.com/search This is because I have always enjoyed a List experience that was completely about the sport we enjoy - airplanes - and not about advertising! But running a high performance, highly available service like this isn't free and a fair amount of money in terms of computer upgrades, business-class Internet connectivity, and electricity. Consequently, many similar sites turn to advertising to support these costs. Advertising that you have to look at each and every time you read an email message or browse the their web site. Rather than subject my List community to another constant commercial bombardment, I have chosen to hold a PBS-like fund raiser each year in November to support the continued operation and upgrade of the List services. It's solely through the Contributions of List members that the Lists and Forums continue to be possible! During the month, I will be sending out a Fund Raiser reminder message every few days and I ask for your patience and understanding during the month throughout these regular messages. Think of them as PBS' Pledge Breaks... :-) To minimize the impact of the Fund Raiser on the List community, I implemented a new feature late last year specifically related to making Contributions. If you are an Email List subscriber, once you make a Contribution using the online web site, you will no longer receive the email from me regarding the Fund Raiser! There are a couple of exceptions to this, however. If someone replies to a Contribution message I've sent, you might receive that. Additionally, the messages will always be posted to the Forums site. To a first order, however, once you make a Contribution, you won't get my email messages about the Fund Raiser for the rest of the month. For Contributions by check, the squelch will take effect once the check is received. There is a whole new line up of really great Contribution gifts this year! When you make a qualifying Contribution, you can select one of the many free gifts that are available during the Fund Raiser. These gifts are provided through the generous support of a number of our industry's leading supporters including: Bob Nuckolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com Andy Gold - Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com Please visit these guy's respective sites, as they have some great products to offer and are generously supporting the Matronics List Fund Raiser. You can make your List Contribution using any one of three secure methods this year including using a credit card, PayPal, or by personal check. From the Contribution site, you can select any one of this year's free gifts with a qualifying Contribution amount. The Contribution page is pretty loooonnnnng this year in order to list great selection of great gifts available so be sure to scroll all the way to the bottom of the web page to see everything that's available! Please make a List Support Contribution: http://www.matronics.com/contribution I would like to thank everyone in advance for their generous support! Your Contributions truely keep this operation afloat! Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:16 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carb jet changes I had an interesting week working on the Bing carb on my serial #2062 Jabiru 2200A engine. I had been running the engine with the cowl off, and I noticed that fuel was going up the clear tube that is the carb bowl vent. I assumed that this was a temporary overflow of fuel and it would soon be gone with the engine running, but it was not. However, revving the engine got rid of the fuel in that line. Finally, I closed the main fuel valve, and shut the engine off. I then took the incoming air hose off the carb, and about a half-cup of fuel gushed out. This led me to believe that the float needle was leaking...DUH! It turned out to be exactly that. I ordered a new needle and seat, and a #40 idle jet. The reason for ordering the jet was I had read others' comments that the #40 jet took care of their idling problems. With the new needle and seat in place, and #40 jet too, the engine ran great, and I could get the idle down to below 900, and it was smooth. Later on, I decide to test the old #45 jet, so I reinstalled it, and the engine ran great with that (original) jet. So my major problem was with the float needle and seat, and nothing else. Amazingly, I have had this bad idle problem for some time now, and it's been a leaking needle and seat all along. I had been just learning to deal with the rough idle. Along with curing the rough idle, I no longer have to shut the main fuel valve off 30 seconds before I shut the engine down. I thought by doing this, I was lowering the fuel level in the float bowl, and thereby keeping the carb from "boiling over", but I was just using up the excess fuel that was already (probably) laying in the inlet air hose. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/420+ hrs ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:51 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Carb jet changes Lynn I found with the J3300 that the needle seat supplied is 2.25mm and according to Bing engineers is meant for gravity feed. Anything above 2500RPM and it ran over rich. I replaced that seat with the 1.5mm seat recommended by Bing and that cured rich running all the way to WOT and EGT was within recommended range although hotter, but if I turned on the electric boost pump even this 1.5mm seat leaked and caused a big increase in fuel consumption. I discussed with Jabiru engineers and they confirmed policy to run with the over size seat to cool the engine and it "works" OK up to 2700 RPM and is "safe" above that with consumption up to 40LPH. I am now using TBI and have total control of mixture full range. Peter H -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Friday, 2 November 2007 7:09 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carb jet changes I had an interesting week working on the Bing carb on my serial #2062 Jabiru 2200A engine. I had been running the engine with the cowl off, and I noticed that fuel was going up the clear tube that is the carb bowl vent. I assumed that this was a temporary overflow of fuel and it would soon be gone with the engine running, but it was not. However, revving the engine got rid of the fuel in that line. Finally, I closed the main fuel valve, and shut the engine off. I then took the incoming air hose off the carb, and about a half-cup of fuel gushed out. This led me to believe that the float needle was leaking...DUH! It turned out to be exactly that. I ordered a new needle and seat, and a #40 idle jet. The reason for ordering the jet was I had read others' comments that the #40 jet took care of their idling problems. With the new needle and seat in place, and #40 jet too, the engine ran great, and I could get the idle down to below 900, and it was smooth. Later on, I decide to test the old #45 jet, so I reinstalled it, and the engine ran great with that (original) jet. So my major problem was with the float needle and seat, and nothing else. Amazingly, I have had this bad idle problem for some time now, and it's been a leaking needle and seat all along. I had been just learning to deal with the rough idle. Along with curing the rough idle, I no longer have to shut the main fuel valve off 30 seconds before I shut the engine down. I thought by doing this, I was lowering the fuel level in the float bowl, and thereby keeping the carb from "boiling over", but I was just using up the excess fuel that was already (probably) laying in the inlet air hose. Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/420+ hrs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:36 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Carb jet changes Hi Peter- I have an electric boost pump, but only use it to insure fuel at the carb after any work done, or to check for carb leakage, like I found this week. A test pilot turned it on while landing a year ago (not knowing any better) and the engine quit. Without the electric pump, and with only the mechanical Jabiru pump operating while engine is running, the gauge reads 2 lbs. pressure, and all seems to be fine. I should note that when I first got the plane up after the changes, it was running hotter on the right-hand 2 cylinders. I rotated the carb according to the "old wives tale", that is rotate the top of the carb towards the cool, rich side, and that helped. I then rotated it again, a little more this time, and the cylinders are within 60-70 F of one another, for most of the operating range...certainly where it operates the most, at cruising speed. Having had the plenum chamber and carb off last week I can see how this works. If the carb is rotated, the spray pattern will change in respect to the divider that is situated inside the plenum chamber. Apparently if the carb top is rotated towards the cool side, the spray pattern is divided more toward the hot, lean side, and the temps between the two sides become closer together. At least that's what I've been able to observe. It's late at night and my memory is fading...what's TBI? A type of carb, I'm assuming? I'm just not recalling.... Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/420+ hrs On Nov 1, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Peter Harris wrote: > > > Lynn > I found with the J3300 that the needle seat supplied is 2.25mm and > according > to Bing engineers is meant for gravity feed. Anything above 2500RPM > and it > ran over rich. > I replaced that seat with the 1.5mm seat recommended by Bing and > that cured > rich running all the way to WOT and EGT was within recommended range > although hotter, but if I turned on the electric boost pump even > this 1.5mm > seat leaked and caused a big increase in fuel consumption. I > discussed with > Jabiru engineers and they confirmed policy to run with the over > size seat to > cool the engine and it "works" OK up to 2700 RPM and is "safe" > above that > with consumption up to 40LPH. > I am now using TBI and have total control of mixture full range. > Peter H > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Friday, 2 November 2007 7:09 AM > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carb jet changes > > > > I had an interesting week working on the Bing carb on my serial #2062 > Jabiru 2200A engine. I had been running the engine with the cowl off, > and I noticed that fuel was going up the clear tube that is the carb > bowl vent. I assumed that this was a temporary overflow of fuel and > it would soon be gone with the engine running, but it was not. > However, revving the engine got rid of the fuel in that line. > Finally, I closed the main fuel valve, and shut the engine off. I > then took the incoming air hose off the carb, and about a half-cup of > fuel gushed out. This led me to believe that the float needle was > leaking...DUH! It turned out to be exactly that. I ordered a new > needle and seat, and a #40 idle jet. The reason for ordering the jet > was I had read others' comments that the #40 jet took care of their > idling problems. With the new needle and seat in place, and #40 jet > too, the engine ran great, and I could get the idle down to below > 900, and it was smooth. Later on, I decide to test the old #45 jet, > so I reinstalled it, and the engine ran great with that (original) > jet. So my major problem was with the float needle and seat, and > nothing else. Amazingly, I have had this bad idle problem for some > time now, and it's been a leaking needle and seat all along. I had > been just learning to deal with the rough idle. > > Along with curing the rough idle, I no longer have to shut the main > fuel valve off 30 seconds before I shut the engine down. I thought by > doing this, I was lowering the fuel level in the float bowl, and > thereby keeping the carb from "boiling over", but I was just using up > the excess fuel that was already (probably) laying in the inlet air > hose. > > > Lynn Matteson ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:01 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Carb jet changes Lynn By TBI I mean throttle body fuel injection. I have a 45mm throttle body with two injectors. Rotating the carb. means that the partly opened butterfly is directing the air/fuel flow to one side or the other and this affects mixture rich or lean each side of the plenum. With the throttle body I have it mounted so the butterfly axis is horizontal and the problem does not arise. Peter H -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Friday, 2 November 2007 11:49 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Carb jet changes Hi Peter- I have an electric boost pump, but only use it to insure fuel at the carb after any work done, or to check for carb leakage, like I found this week. A test pilot turned it on while landing a year ago (not knowing any better) and the engine quit. Without the electric pump, and with only the mechanical Jabiru pump operating while engine is running, the gauge reads 2 lbs. pressure, and all seems to be fine. I should note that when I first got the plane up after the changes, it was running hotter on the right-hand 2 cylinders. I rotated the carb according to the "old wives tale", that is rotate the top of the carb towards the cool, rich side, and that helped. I then rotated it again, a little more this time, and the cylinders are within 60-70 F of one another, for most of the operating range...certainly where it operates the most, at cruising speed. Having had the plenum chamber and carb off last week I can see how this works. If the carb is rotated, the spray pattern will change in respect to the divider that is situated inside the plenum chamber. Apparently if the carb top is rotated towards the cool side, the spray pattern is divided more toward the hot, lean side, and the temps between the two sides become closer together. At least that's what I've been able to observe. It's late at night and my memory is fading...what's TBI? A type of carb, I'm assuming? I'm just not recalling.... Lynn Matteson Grass Lake, Michigan Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200 flying w/420+ hrs On Nov 1, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Peter Harris wrote: > > > Lynn > I found with the J3300 that the needle seat supplied is 2.25mm and > according > to Bing engineers is meant for gravity feed. Anything above 2500RPM > and it > ran over rich. > I replaced that seat with the 1.5mm seat recommended by Bing and > that cured > rich running all the way to WOT and EGT was within recommended range > although hotter, but if I turned on the electric boost pump even > this 1.5mm > seat leaked and caused a big increase in fuel consumption. I > discussed with > Jabiru engineers and they confirmed policy to run with the over > size seat to > cool the engine and it "works" OK up to 2700 RPM and is "safe" > above that > with consumption up to 40LPH. > I am now using TBI and have total control of mixture full range. > Peter H > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Friday, 2 November 2007 7:09 AM > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Carb jet changes > > > > I had an interesting week working on the Bing carb on my serial #2062 > Jabiru 2200A engine. I had been running the engine with the cowl off, > and I noticed that fuel was going up the clear tube that is the carb > bowl vent. I assumed that this was a temporary overflow of fuel and > it would soon be gone with the engine running, but it was not. > However, revving the engine got rid of the fuel in that line. > Finally, I closed the main fuel valve, and shut the engine off. I > then took the incoming air hose off the carb, and about a half-cup of > fuel gushed out. This led me to believe that the float needle was > leaking...DUH! It turned out to be exactly that. I ordered a new > needle and seat, and a #40 idle jet. The reason for ordering the jet > was I had read others' comments that the #40 jet took care of their > idling problems. With the new needle and seat in place, and #40 jet > too, the engine ran great, and I could get the idle down to below > 900, and it was smooth. Later on, I decide to test the old #45 jet, > so I reinstalled it, and the engine ran great with that (original) > jet. So my major problem was with the float needle and seat, and > nothing else. Amazingly, I have had this bad idle problem for some > time now, and it's been a leaking needle and seat all along. I had > been just learning to deal with the rough idle. > > Along with curing the rough idle, I no longer have to shut the main > fuel valve off 30 seconds before I shut the engine down. I thought by > doing this, I was lowering the fuel level in the float bowl, and > thereby keeping the carb from "boiling over", but I was just using up > the excess fuel that was already (probably) laying in the inlet air > hose. > > > Lynn Matteson ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.