---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/18/08: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:38 PM - Electrical setup for my 3300 (pequeajim) 2. 04:56 PM - Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 (Jeff) 3. 05:12 PM - Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 (pequeajim) 4. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 (Jeff) 5. 07:16 PM - Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 02/17/08 (PaulCDJ@aol.com) 6. 08:02 PM - Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 (Noel Loveys) 7. 08:34 PM - Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 (Noel Loveys) 8. 08:38 PM - Re: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 (Noel Loveys) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:08 PM PST US Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300 From: "pequeajim" I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am building. This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator). The panel wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and not wired direct. My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA guys just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker switch. Based on this, I have a couple of questions: Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid? Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the Cessna guys? Is there an advantage of one over the other? Thanks ahead of time for the help... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164900#164900 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:33 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300 When I last talked to Pete about this, his answer was that you can use or not use a battery solenoid as you please. With help from others on the list, I used a battery solenoid mainly to keep all the "live" wires in front of the firewall when the master is off. Since the master is actually grounding the contactor (solenoid), there is no power passing it when it is not grounded. Mine is located close to the battery on the engine side of the firewall and is the continuous type. Sounds like you can easily make your Composite Design box happy. Depending on the alternator (three phase or single phase), the alternator hookup is slightly different too. Jeff D -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pequeajim Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:35 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300 I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am building. This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator). The panel wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and not wired direct. My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA guys just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker switch. Based on this, I have a couple of questions: Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid? Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the Cessna guys? Is there an advantage of one over the other? Thanks ahead of time for the help... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164900#164900 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:06 PM PST US Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 From: "pequeajim" Thanks Jeff for the quick reply. I guess I could mount my battery solenoid right next to the one for the starter. Where did you buy your from, and was there a specific type? I was thinking of using this master relay from Spruce. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php It is light and easy to wire up? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164911#164911 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:06 PM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 As I remember, it came from B&C Specialty and had the diode already wired up saving just a bit of extra work. I have also used Terminal Town, Aircraft Spruce, and others for electrical stuff. And yes, I mounted the two solenoids close together. A picture is attached. Jeff Thanks Jeff for the quick reply. I guess I could mount my battery solenoid right next to the one for the starter. Where did you buy your from, and was there a specific type? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:06 PM PST US From: PaulCDJ@aol.com Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 02/17/08 Hi, Good work you do, however can you take me off the list? Thanks Paul de Jung **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:24 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300 I'll be honest here I had to read your question a couple of times to get the gist of what you were asking. Why does Cessna use a solenoid on the battery... simply to isolate the battery from the rest of the aircraft. The reason to do it through a solenoid is to allow for lighter wiring carrying less amperage to the panel/switch/circuit breaker. Also when the current provided by the battery get's low enough the solenoid will open not allowing the battery to completely discharge. The use of the solenoid also gives a level of protection to the heavy cable going from the battery to the starter. One place the solenoid could be turned off is if the starter jammed in the on position. Shutting down the battery would also shut down power to the starter motor. The Cessna also has a second solenoid to automatically connect ground power to the airplane for starting through the exterior connection. One nice side to that relay is the exterior connector can't be used to blow up air mattresses etc. Darned if I know if it is possible to short the electrical system through the alternator/generator but if it is possible, then the double switches allow the pilot to isolate one power system from the other. Also the engines don't require electrical power to run unless they have electric fuel pumps so operation on batteries only, should last for several hours if unnecessary loads are shut down. My plane only has a 582 in it right now but I rewired it with a solenoid at the battery to provide power to the starter. I have a fused link at the solenoid protecting the energizer wire to the master switch. The master switch only needs to connect that wire to ground to energize the master relay. My generator is connected to the power buss through a circuit breaker. After all it is only 15A. I also have a small wire from the supply side of the relay that only powers my clock BTW the solenoid used is not a starter solenoid. Starter solenoids will heat up and possibly burn out in short order. The relay I used is one from a trailer supply outlet and is normally used to wire auxiliary batteries to cars so when the car is stopped the main battery is disconnected from the trailer power. Not having the relay in there can be embarrassing when you want to start the car again only to find you have run both batteries flat. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pequeajim Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:05 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300 I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am building. This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator). The panel wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and not wired direct. My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA guys just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker switch. Based on this, I have a couple of questions: Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid? Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the Cessna guys? Is there an advantage of one over the other? Thanks ahead of time for the help... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164900#164900 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:07 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300 In the C-185 the battery and two relays (1 for exterior power) are behind the cargo compartment behind the passenger compartment... So even with the relays the heavy hot wire has to pass under the floor up to the engine compartment. The run from the battery to the main relay is very short as both relays are mounted to the exterior of the battery box. The exterior power relay has a diode on the energizer line so if the connector is reverse wired the relay will not make the connection with the AC battery. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300 When I last talked to Pete about this, his answer was that you can use or not use a battery solenoid as you please. With help from others on the list, I used a battery solenoid mainly to keep all the "live" wires in front of the firewall when the master is off. Since the master is actually grounding the contactor (solenoid), there is no power passing it when it is not grounded. Mine is located close to the battery on the engine side of the firewall and is the continuous type. Sounds like you can easily make your Composite Design box happy. Depending on the alternator (three phase or single phase), the alternator hookup is slightly different too. Jeff D -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pequeajim Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:35 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Electrical setup for my 3300 I am going to use a Composite Design power panel in the Lightning that I am building. This has a split power toggle switch on it (master/alternator). The panel wants to see power from a battery solonoid (like a Cessna), and not wired direct. My engine is a Jabiru 3300 and most of the aircraft built by the Jabiru USA guys just takes power directly off the battery to a 25-35 amp master breaker switch. Based on this, I have a couple of questions: Why does Cessna use the extra solenoid? Why do the Jabiru guys use a breaker switch and not the extra coil like the Cessna guys? Is there an advantage of one over the other? Thanks ahead of time for the help... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=164900#164900 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:05 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 That's the beast you want... Price is pretty good too! To keep your always hot 4-0 cable as short as possible mount your relay right on the outside of your battery box. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pequeajim Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:40 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Electrical setup for my 3300 Thanks Jeff for the quick reply. I guess I could mount my battery solenoid right next to the one for the starter. Where did you buy your from, and was there a specific type? I was thinking of using this master relay from Spruce. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php It is light and easy to wire up? 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