Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:16 AM - Re: EGTs and fuel quality (Chuck Deiterich)
2. 10:39 AM - Re: Re: EGTs and fuel quality (Lynn Matteson)
3. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: EGTs and fuel quality (Peter Harris)
4. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: EGTs and fuel quality (Lynn Matteson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Lynn,
The 4 inch comment has my 2200 running its best. My SN is 988, Bob Vossman
has SN 8XX. He has more than one groove in his needle. I think the carb
data from Jabiru also shows mine with 3 grooves. My needle is a Bing and
not from the Jab tuning kit. I will check my egt's one more time and then
attack the carb, if need be.
Chuck
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:10:47 PM PST US
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fwd: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> Date: April 18, 2008 2:37:32 PM GMT-04:00
>> To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>>
>> Chuck-
>> You may not have another groove to move the clip to...mine only had
>> one groove, but I'm serial #2062, with 40mm Bing.
>> I've got the Bing Aircraft Manual (if I could put my hands on my
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Chuck-
I just flew my newly-modified and installed air duct (from airbox to
carb) and it works fine. I'd say great, but it didn't even out the
EGT's like I hoped, but it did *seem* to give me more WOT rpm. Of
course the weather has changed since I last checked for WOT rpm, but
before I'd have to point the nose down just a little to get 3000 rpm.
Today I could fly level and get 3130 rpm. Again, the air density
might have something to do with it. I'm also climbing out at about
90-100 rpm higher. It's a bitch to take down performance figures in
the cold air, and by the time the changes are made, the weather does
an "about face," and you have squat to compare to. Suffice it to say,
the engine runs good now, so be it air-straightening vanes or better
weather, I'm happy. One other thing I'm going to try...just for
kicks...is to swap the SCAT hose for some SCEET hose from airbox to
the vaned air duct. I just saw some SCEET hose, and that stuff is
smooth inside! For just a few bucks more per foot, I'm going for it.
After the initial flight today, I also changed to a 2.78 needle jet,
up from the original 2.76 jet. (I had done this a few weeks ago, but
changed float level too, and the combo had the engine stumbling, so I
removed it at the time) That didn't change the EGT's all that much,
but it did chase the hot EGT from #4 over to #3. I wasn't in the mood
to write down a bunch of figures at the time, but I will, and report
what I find.
My carb had the 2005 Economy Kit on board when I bought it, and the
jet and needle sizes were etched on the side of the carb. My needle
number ended in -1, meaning one groove, as I understand it, and
indeed it was a one-groove needle.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
> <cffd@pgrb.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> The 4 inch comment has my 2200 running its best. My SN is 988, Bob
> Vossman has SN 8XX. He has more than one groove in his needle. I
> think the carb data from Jabiru also shows mine with 3 grooves. My
> needle is a Bing and not from the Jab tuning kit. I will check my
> egt's one more time and then attack the carb, if need be.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 12:10:47 PM PST US
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fwd: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel
>> quality
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> Date: April 18, 2008 2:37:32 PM GMT-04:00
>>> To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>>>
>>> Chuck-
>>> You may not have another groove to move the clip to...mine only had
>>> one groove, but I'm serial #2062, with 40mm Bing.
>>> I've got the Bing Aircraft Manual (if I could put my hands on my
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Lynn
I have also been chasing a better fuel/air distribution and have finished
with the Bing because I was looking for better control of mixture. I have
been test flying with a TBI conversion using a 45mm throttle body with two
injectors controlled by ECU in the Q-200 airframe powered by the J3300.
I have total control of mix and can over ride the fuel map using a
potentiometer.
But EGT is still uneven and it varies according to engine load and rpm. I am
monitoring EGT at #5 and #6 and see even T at top of climb but then have
seen up to 100degC variance as the load and rpm changes in level flight. I
discussed this with one of the engineers at the factory. He has seen up to
200 deg variance. His advice is to experiment with the intake hose as you
have done but I do not believe it will solve for even EGT. The variance is
worst when the engine is lean but the Bing has been set up to go rich above
2700rpm. When my EGT variance was at its worst the engine began to shake
because of the uneven power strokes R to L and I think this condition could
contribute to the fly wheel bolt problem.
Like you I have been testing for best rpm at WOT but I am over propped
somewhat and the engine has only done about 40 hrs. It is too tight to re
start when hot. I am getting a TAS of 184 KTS in the Quickie at 2950 RPM WOT
but I think there is more potential.
I think the uneven mix is caused by the lack of a reasonable sized induction
manifold. The jab has only a collector of less than 1/2L capacity and
induction pulses as valves close are interfering with the incoming fuel air
mix. The condition varies with RPM.
As an experiment I am making dual manifolds with a cross pipe using standard
SS tube fittings in 64mm diameter x 1.6, The throttle body will feed the
cross pipe from a 63mm tee. Total capacity is about 3.5L.
I hope to test fly within a couple of weeks and will be able to report with
pics then.
If successful I have since found a source prepared to make the fittings in
1.6mm Al tube. My SS manifold has added about 1.5KG net to the weight.The
fittings are expensive .
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: Sunday, 20 April 2008 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: EGTs and fuel quality
Chuck-
I just flew my newly-modified and installed air duct (from airbox to
carb) and it works fine. I'd say great, but it didn't even out the
EGT's like I hoped, but it did *seem* to give me more WOT rpm. Of
course the weather has changed since I last checked for WOT rpm, but
before I'd have to point the nose down just a little to get 3000 rpm.
Today I could fly level and get 3130 rpm. Again, the air density
might have something to do with it. I'm also climbing out at about
90-100 rpm higher. It's a bitch to take down performance figures in
the cold air, and by the time the changes are made, the weather does
an "about face," and you have squat to compare to. Suffice it to say,
the engine runs good now, so be it air-straightening vanes or better
weather, I'm happy. One other thing I'm going to try...just for
kicks...is to swap the SCAT hose for some SCEET hose from airbox to
the vaned air duct. I just saw some SCEET hose, and that stuff is
smooth inside! For just a few bucks more per foot, I'm going for it.
After the initial flight today, I also changed to a 2.78 needle jet,
up from the original 2.76 jet. (I had done this a few weeks ago, but
changed float level too, and the combo had the engine stumbling, so I
removed it at the time) That didn't change the EGT's all that much,
but it did chase the hot EGT from #4 over to #3. I wasn't in the mood
to write down a bunch of figures at the time, but I will, and report
what I find.
My carb had the 2005 Economy Kit on board when I bought it, and the
jet and needle sizes were etched on the side of the carb. My needle
number ended in -1, meaning one groove, as I understand it, and
indeed it was a one-groove needle.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
> <cffd@pgrb.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> The 4 inch comment has my 2200 running its best. My SN is 988, Bob
> Vossman has SN 8XX. He has more than one groove in his needle. I
> think the carb data from Jabiru also shows mine with 3 grooves. My
> needle is a Bing and not from the Jab tuning kit. I will check my
> egt's one more time and then attack the carb, if need be.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> ________________________________ Message 2
>> _____________________________________
>>
>>
>> Time: 12:10:47 PM PST US
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fwd: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel
>> quality
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> Date: April 18, 2008 2:37:32 PM GMT-04:00
>>> To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>>>
>>> Chuck-
>>> You may not have another groove to move the clip to...mine only had
>>> one groove, but I'm serial #2062, with 40mm Bing.
>>> I've got the Bing Aircraft Manual (if I could put my hands on my
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: EGTs and fuel quality |
Sounds exciting, Peter...be sure to let us know how it goes.
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
do not archive
On Apr 19, 2008, at 6:37 PM, Peter Harris wrote:
> <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
>
> Lynn
> I have also been chasing a better fuel/air distribution and have
> finished
> with the Bing because I was looking for better control of mixture.
> I have
> been test flying with a TBI conversion using a 45mm throttle body
> with two
> injectors controlled by ECU in the Q-200 airframe powered by the
> J3300.
> I have total control of mix and can over ride the fuel map using a
> potentiometer.
> But EGT is still uneven and it varies according to engine load and
> rpm. I am
> monitoring EGT at #5 and #6 and see even T at top of climb but then
> have
> seen up to 100degC variance as the load and rpm changes in level
> flight. I
> discussed this with one of the engineers at the factory. He has
> seen up to
> 200 deg variance. His advice is to experiment with the intake hose
> as you
> have done but I do not believe it will solve for even EGT. The
> variance is
> worst when the engine is lean but the Bing has been set up to go
> rich above
> 2700rpm. When my EGT variance was at its worst the engine began to
> shake
> because of the uneven power strokes R to L and I think this
> condition could
> contribute to the fly wheel bolt problem.
> Like you I have been testing for best rpm at WOT but I am over propped
> somewhat and the engine has only done about 40 hrs. It is too tight
> to re
> start when hot. I am getting a TAS of 184 KTS in the Quickie at
> 2950 RPM WOT
> but I think there is more potential.
> I think the uneven mix is caused by the lack of a reasonable sized
> induction
> manifold. The jab has only a collector of less than 1/2L capacity and
> induction pulses as valves close are interfering with the incoming
> fuel air
> mix. The condition varies with RPM.
> As an experiment I am making dual manifolds with a cross pipe using
> standard
> SS tube fittings in 64mm diameter x 1.6, The throttle body will
> feed the
> cross pipe from a 63mm tee. Total capacity is about 3.5L.
> I hope to test fly within a couple of weeks and will be able to
> report with
> pics then.
> If successful I have since found a source prepared to make the
> fittings in
> 1.6mm Al tube. My SS manifold has added about 1.5KG net to the
> weight.The
> fittings are expensive .
> Peter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, 20 April 2008 3:36 AM
> To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Chuck-
> I just flew my newly-modified and installed air duct (from airbox to
> carb) and it works fine. I'd say great, but it didn't even out the
> EGT's like I hoped, but it did *seem* to give me more WOT rpm. Of
> course the weather has changed since I last checked for WOT rpm, but
> before I'd have to point the nose down just a little to get 3000 rpm.
> Today I could fly level and get 3130 rpm. Again, the air density
> might have something to do with it. I'm also climbing out at about
> 90-100 rpm higher. It's a bitch to take down performance figures in
> the cold air, and by the time the changes are made, the weather does
> an "about face," and you have squat to compare to. Suffice it to say,
> the engine runs good now, so be it air-straightening vanes or better
> weather, I'm happy. One other thing I'm going to try...just for
> kicks...is to swap the SCAT hose for some SCEET hose from airbox to
> the vaned air duct. I just saw some SCEET hose, and that stuff is
> smooth inside! For just a few bucks more per foot, I'm going for it.
>
> After the initial flight today, I also changed to a 2.78 needle jet,
> up from the original 2.76 jet. (I had done this a few weeks ago, but
> changed float level too, and the combo had the engine stumbling, so I
> removed it at the time) That didn't change the EGT's all that much,
> but it did chase the hot EGT from #4 over to #3. I wasn't in the mood
> to write down a bunch of figures at the time, but I will, and report
> what I find.
>
> My carb had the 2005 Economy Kit on board when I bought it, and the
> jet and needle sizes were etched on the side of the carb. My needle
> number ended in -1, meaning one groove, as I understand it, and
> indeed it was a one-groove needle.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/490+ hrs
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2008, at 12:13 PM, Chuck Deiterich wrote:
>
>> <cffd@pgrb.com>
>>
>> Lynn,
>>
>> The 4 inch comment has my 2200 running its best. My SN is 988, Bob
>> Vossman has SN 8XX. He has more than one groove in his needle. I
>> think the carb data from Jabiru also shows mine with 3 grooves. My
>> needle is a Bing and not from the Jab tuning kit. I will check my
>> egt's one more time and then attack the carb, if need be.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________ Message 2
>>> _____________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Time: 12:10:47 PM PST US
>>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fwd: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel
>>> quality
>>>
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>> Date: April 18, 2008 2:37:32 PM GMT-04:00
>>>> To: jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [jabiruengines] Re: EGTs and fuel quality
>>>>
>>>> Chuck-
>>>> You may not have another groove to move the clip to...mine only had
>>>> one groove, but I'm serial #2062, with 40mm Bing.
>>>> I've got the Bing Aircraft Manual (if I could put my hands on my
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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