Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:10 AM - Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 (Bob & Toodie Marshall)
2. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 (BobsV35B@aol.com)
3. 09:31 AM - Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 (Peter Harris)
5. 10:51 PM - Re: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 (BobsV35B@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Hello Jabiru users, On your Egt issues while not flying one,I have a lyc, I
was having some of the same issues a while back and in particular on a
cylinder that would not come up to within a few degrees of all the rest,
even after changing the injector nozzle, it was way cold. the reason was,
the cooling air going by the out side of the EGT probe, I wrapped the pipe
down about six inches and the temp came up. ! IMHO and FWIW. Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "JabiruEngine-List Digest Server" <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 11:57 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08
> *
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> JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sun 05/04/08: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:11 AM - Re: Float Level (Lynn Matteson)
> 2. 05:39 AM - Re: Float Level (Dave G.)
> 3. 03:25 PM - Re: Float Level (Lynn Matteson)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:11:53 AM PST US
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
> Ron-
> Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
> installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and it
> is .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to be the
> reason that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've gone to a
> larger needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
>
> Lynn
>
> On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine with
>> the Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so I
>> changed the needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from 220 to
>> 240. Now my high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65 F or
>> above. My engine is Ser. No. 2030.
>> Ron Smith
>> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
>> forums.matronics.com_-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> contribution_-
>> ==========================================================
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:39:33 AM PST US
> From: "Dave G." <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
> Hi Lynn. I'm not trying to come across "all expert" but we tried simply
> drilling a larger hole in mains years ago with Mikuni carbs on motorcycles
> and the results were unpredictable. It might be better to simply buy a
> larger main jet from Bing if you feel the need. I've heard you can do it
> with flow testing but I figured it wasn't worth the effort.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
>>
>> Ron-
>> Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
>> installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and it is
>> .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to be the
>> reason
>> that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've gone to a larger
>> needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
>>
>> Lynn
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine with the
>>> Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so I changed the
>>> needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from 220 to 240. Now my
>>> high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65 F or above. My engine is
>>> Ser. No. 2030.
>>> Ron Smith
>>> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
>>> forums.matronics.com_-
>>> ============================================================ _-
>>> contribution_-
>>> ==========================================================
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:25:54 PM PST US
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>
>
> Thanks for the input, Dave.
> I too, was a little wary when I heard folks talk about drilling jets
> out, thinking it would be better to buy them and know that the
> precision would be better. I've got a metal lathe, and had good
> success in drilling my 2.76 needle jet out to a #33 drill size...
> 0.113". This didn't change my EGT's any (leading me to think the main
> needed to be larger) but today I did something else. I was having
> trouble getting one of my EGT's below the 1400 F range, and the left
> bank was always the hottest. Well today I decided to rotate the carb
> as per the suggested manner....top towards the cool side. I had done
> this before, but when I recently added air-straightening vanes inside
> my air duct (attaches directly to carb) I made sure the carb was
> rotated directly vertical. I had flown it for a week or so that way,
> and today I decided to try rotating it again. I am quite pleased to
> say that this time it worked, and I now have 3 cylinders within about
> 30 degrees of one another, and one (#3) that is about 70 degrees
> colder. I'm ready to live with that, I think. I no longer see the 1400
> + reading on cyl #4, like I had before. Knowing me, I'll probably try
> to tweak the rotation a bit and see if #3 and #4 can be brought a bit
> closer together.
>
> It was interesting to note that during previous operation at around
> 2850 rpm, straight and level, my EIS would alarm showing high EGT
> spread of over 212 F. I had arbitrarily set this number into the EIS
> unit some time ago. Now I don't get that alarm, or see such a large
> spread. I wish I could figure a way to precisely control the position
> of the carb when rotating it, or doing the rotation from the cabin,
> but that's asking for too much. : )
>
> So for the time being, I won't be drilling my main out, or do any
> other jet tweaking. I'll just concentrate on trying to fine-tune the
> position of the carb.
>
> Maybe what is needed is a cockpit-controlled splitter that will allow
> for diverting the mixture toward the hottest cylinder/bank. It
> wouldn't need to be much...just a lever-controlled vane positioned in
> front of the built-in splitter. This is getting a bit radical, and
> I'm hoping that persons with better testing facilities than I (read:
> the Jabiru engineers) could do some work on the carb and come up with
> a closer cylinder-to-cylinder match of EGT's.
>
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Grass Lake, Michigan
> Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
> flying w/503+ hrs
>
>
> On May 4, 2008, at 8:20 AM, Dave G. wrote:
>
>> <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>
>> Hi Lynn. I'm not trying to come across "all expert" but we tried
>> simply drilling a larger hole in mains years ago with Mikuni carbs
>> on motorcycles and the results were unpredictable. It might be
>> better to simply buy a larger main jet from Bing if you feel the
>> need. I've heard you can do it with flow testing but I figured it
>> wasn't worth the effort.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> To: <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Float Level
>>
>>
>>> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>>
>>> Ron-
>>> Did you happen to measure (with a # drill) the 240 main before you
>>> installed it? Or for that matter the 220? I measured my 220 and
>>> it is .078". I'm thinking of drilling my 220 out, as it seems to
>>> be the reason that my EGT's are still up in the 1400's when I've
>>> gone to a larger needle jet (twice) and it didn't lower the EGT's.
>>>
>>> Lynn
>>>
>>> On Apr 28, 2008, at 5:19 PM, RONAL SMITH wrote:
>>>
>>>> My understanding is that any EGT temp. 1400 F or below is fine
>>>> with the Jabiru 2200 engine. I was getting temps up to 1500, so
>>>> I changed the needle jet from 276 to 280 and the main jet from
>>>> 220 to 240. Now my high temp in cruise is 1375 with the OAT 65
>>>> F or above. My engine is Ser. No. 2030.
>>>> Ron Smith
>>>> Kitfox 4 with Jabiru 2200
>>>> forums.matronics.com_-
>>>> ============================================================ _-
>>>> contribution_-
>>>> ==========================================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Good Morning Bob and All,
The key point here is that the actual temperature means very little and
there really is NO need for all of them to read the same. What we really want to
know is how close the cylinder is running to a stoichiometric mixture. Peak
EGT occurs close to that mixture.
On the lean side of stoichiometric, the engine will run cooler and on the
rich side of stoichiometric, the engine will also run cooler.
Since there are so many variables introduced by probe placement and
incidental airflow considerations, the actual temperature IS immaterial. What we
need
to do is slowly lean and see just where each cylinder peaks in relation to
fuel flow. I see no way to do that exercise with Jabiru and it's BMW motorcycle
BING carburetor.
Cooling or insulating your Lycoming was just messing around. It did nothing
to adjust the mixture and that is what is important.
I sure wish someone would come up with a method whereby we could lean the
Jabiru so as to determine just how well balanced the mixtures actually are.
On your Lycoming, that is fairly easy to do IF you have a good all cylinder
monitor and a very accurate electronic fuel flow unit.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 5/5/2008 10:11:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rtmarshall@gotsky.com writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
<rtmarshall@gotsky.com>
Hello Jabiru users, On your Egt issues while not flying one,I have a lyc, I
was having some of the same issues a while back and in particular on a
cylinder that would not come up to within a few degrees of all the rest,
even after changing the injector nozzle, it was way cold. the reason was,
the cooling air going by the out side of the EGT probe, I wrapped the pipe
down about six inches and the temp came up. ! IMHO and FWIW. Bob
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Good Morning Bob and All,
The key point here is that the actual temperature means very little and
there really is NO need for all of them to read the same. What we really want to
know is how close the cylinder is running to a stoichiometric mixture. Peak
EGT occurs close to that mixture.
On the lean side of stoichiometric, the engine will run cooler and on the
rich side of stoichiometric, the engine will also run cooler.
Since there are so many variables introduced by probe placement and
incidental airflow considerations, the actual temperature IS immaterial. What we
need
to do is slowly lean and see just where each cylinder peaks in relation to
fuel flow. I see no way to do that exercise with Jabiru and it's BMW motorcycle
BING carburetor.
Cooling or insulating your Lycoming was just messing around. It did nothing
to adjust the mixture and that is what is important.
I sure wish someone would come up with a method whereby we could lean the
Jabiru so as to determine just how well balanced the mixtures actually are.
On your Lycoming, that is fairly easy to do IF you have a good all cylinder
monitor and a very accurate electronic fuel flow unit.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 5/5/2008 10:11:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rtmarshall@gotsky.com writes:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Bob & Toodie Marshall"
<rtmarshall@gotsky.com>
Hello Jabiru users, On your Egt issues while not flying one,I have a lyc, I
was having some of the same issues a while back and in particular on a
cylinder that would not come up to within a few degrees of all the rest,
even after changing the injector nozzle, it was way cold. the reason was,
the cooling air going by the out side of the EGT probe, I wrapped the pipe
down about six inches and the temp came up. ! IMHO and FWIW. Bob
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Bob,
I replaced the Bing with a simple throttle body and two injectors. I have a
potentiometer to over ride the ECU if necessary and this was useful when
fixing fuel maps . I am monitoring EGT at #5 and #6. With the present map
settings I have even EGT (about 690degC) at TOC but if I leave the throttle
open and accelerate I see EGT 5 goes to 780degC ie almost 100 deg hotter,
and the engine starts to shake because of uneven power strokes R to L.
I think the problem is caused because there is no intake manifold, only a
1/2L collector. I am building a 3.5L induction manifold using 64MM tube
fittings and will be able to report on that soon.
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 2:28 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08
Good Morning Bob and All,
The key point here is that the actual temperature means very little and
there really is NO need for all of them to read the same. What we really
want to know is how close the cylinder is running to a stoichiometric
mixture. Peak EGT occurs close to that mixture.
On the lean side of stoichiometric, the engine will run cooler and on the
rich side of stoichiometric, the engine will also run cooler.
Since there are so many variables introduced by probe placement and
incidental airflow considerations, the actual temperature IS immaterial.
What we need to do is slowly lean and see just where each cylinder peaks in
relation to fuel flow. I see no way to do that exercise with Jabiru and it's
BMW motorcycle BING carburetor.
Cooling or insulating your Lycoming was just messing around. It did nothing
to adjust the mixture and that is what is important.
I sure wish someone would come up with a method whereby we could lean the
Jabiru so as to determine just how well balanced the mixtures actually are.
On your Lycoming, that is fairly easy to do IF you have a good all cylinder
monitor and a very accurate electronic fuel flow unit.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 5/5/2008 10:11:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
rtmarshall@gotsky.com writes:
<rtmarshall@gotsky.com>
Hello Jabiru users, On your Egt issues while not flying one,I have a lyc, I
was having some of the same issues a while back and in particular on a
cylinder that would not come up to within a few degrees of all the rest,
even after changing the injector nozzle, it was way cold. the reason was,
the cooling air going by the out side of the EGT probe, I wrapped the pipe
down about six inches and the temp came up. ! IMHO and FWIW. Bob
_____
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new
<http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> twists on
family favorites at AOL Food.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 05/04/08 |
Good Evening Peter,
Sounds great! Be sure to let us know how things go.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
628 West 86th Street
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
In a message dated 5/5/2008 4:41:24 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
peterjfharris@bigpond.com writes:
Bob,
I replaced the Bing with a simple throttle body and two injectors. I have a
potentiometer to over ride the ECU if necessary and this was useful when
fixing fuel maps . I am monitoring EGT at #5 and #6. With the present map
settings I have even EGT (about 690degC) at TOC but if I leave the throttle open
and
accelerate I see EGT 5 goes to 780degC ie almost 100 deg hotter, and the
engine starts to shake because of uneven power strokes R to L.
I think the problem is caused because there is no intake manifold, only a
1/2L collector. I am building a 3.5L induction manifold using 64MM tube
fittings and will be able to report on that soon.
Peter
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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