---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/27/08: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:20 AM - Re: CHT's (D.Hetrick) 2. 12:55 PM - Re: Jab 3300 no start after hot (Woody Sulloway) 3. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Jab 3300 no start after hot (Iberplanes IGL) 4. 03:54 PM - Re: CHT's (Peter Harris) 5. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Jab 3300 no start after hot (D.Hetrick) 6. 08:20 PM - Re: CHT's (D.Hetrick) 7. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Jab 3300 no start after hot (D.Hetrick) 8. 09:42 PM - Re: CHT's (Peter Harris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:28 AM PST US From: "D.Hetrick" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:33 PM PST US From: "Woody Sulloway" Subject: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot Dale, I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start again after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4 years old, I too bought a new one, even though the old battery load tested better than spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I have had a couple of e -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA. One of the questions he asked me was did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed holes drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed cooling air over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition inspection is due in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what happens. My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to make sure that I have tried everything else first! By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator. Regards Woody Sulloway Trigear Sonex Jab 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, Ive read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:31 PM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot Hello Dale, No problem, if you ever come back to BCN drop me an email so we can arrange a visit and meal. My Jab serial is 33CC205, with the black starter. I have not started the engine yet but it was given the periodic "oil" maintenance. I=B4ve read tha t we should change the starter, but not sure where and when. If I get more info I will published it. Take care, Alberto Martin 2008/7/27 Woody Sulloway > Dale, > I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start again > after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4 years old , I > too bought a new one, even though the old battery load tested better than > spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I have had a couple of e > -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA. One of the questions he as ked > me was > did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed hole s > drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed cooling air > over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition inspection is du e > in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what happens. > > My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I > understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to mak e > sure that I have tried everything else first! > > By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator. > > Regards > > Woody Sulloway > Trigear Sonex > Jab 3300 > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *D.Hetrick > *Sent:* Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's > > Hello Alberto, > Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BC N > immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on > the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not > restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion th at > the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running th e > engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the > resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to > overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement > starter motor. > Regards, > Dale > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Iberplanes IGL > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's > > Hello Dale, > > Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturda y? > Are you living BCN on sunday? > > Let me know. > > > 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : > >> Hello Alberto, >> My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about >> 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via >> De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenie nt, >> please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. >> Thank you, >> Dale Hetrick >> Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Iberplanes IGL >> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM >> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's >> >> Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max >> temperatures. >> >> >> >> Alberto Martin >> www.iberplanes.es >> Igualada - Barcelona - Spain >> >> ---------------------------------------------- >> Zodiac 601 XL Builder >> Serial: 6-7011 >> >> Tail Kit: Finished >> Wings: Not Started >> Fuselage: Ordered >> Engine: Jabiru 3300 >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List >> >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ c >> * >> >> * >> >> ist" target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List >> >> a> http://forums.matronics.com >> _blank"> http://www.matronics.com /contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Alberto Martin > www.iberplanes.es > Igualada - Barcelona - Spain > > ---------------------------------------------- > Zodiac 601 XL Builder > Serial: 6-7011 > > Tail Kit: Finished > Wings: Not Started > Fuselage: Ordered > Engine: Jabiru 3300 > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > =========== /www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List =========== =========== com/contribution =========== > * > > -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:27 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Ale, The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm. The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark. It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency. We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement. Peter _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:27 PM PST US From: "D.Hetrick" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot Woody, Thanks for the note. It appears that we both have the same starter motors and the same problem. However, during the build I drilled the holes that Pete mentioned and still have the problem. In talking with Pete he said that the Bosch starters have been replaced with Nippon-Denso's so the factory must be aware of the problem. He also said that replacement starters were priced at about $685. If we can find a model number we could start looking for a used replacement. Pete said that some of the smaller diesels may be using them. Did you change your alternator? Regards, Dale ---- Original Message ----- From: Woody Sulloway To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot Dale, I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start again after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4 years old, I too bought a new one, even though the old battery load tested better than spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I have had a couple of e -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA. One of the questions he asked me was did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed holes drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed cooling air over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition inspection is due in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what happens. My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to make sure that I have tried everything else first! By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator. Regards Woody Sulloway Trigear Sonex Jab 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:27 PM PST US From: "D.Hetrick" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Peter, Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Harris To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Ale, The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm. The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark. It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency. We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement. Peter ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics. com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:30 PM PST US From: "D.Hetrick" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot Martin, Where did you read that we should replace the starter? Folks here is the US don't seem to be aware of it. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 1:31 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: RE: Jab 3300 no start after hot Hello Dale, No problem, if you ever come back to BCN drop me an email so we can arrange a visit and meal. My Jab serial is 33CC205, with the black starter. I have not started the engine yet but it was given the periodic "oil" maintenance. I=B4ve read that we should change the starter, but not sure where and when. If I get more info I will published it. Take care, Alberto Martin 2008/7/27 Woody Sulloway Dale, I too have a 3300 (solid lifters) that often does not want to start again after flying for 2-to 30 minutes and because the battery was 4 years old, I too bought a new one, even though the old battery load tested better than spec. I think you are on the right about the heat. I have had a couple of e -mails back and forth with Pete at Jabiru USA. One of the questions he asked me was did My Fiberglass cylinder ducts have the two 1 and 1/4 inch bleed holes drilled in the aft inside side area in such a manner as to bleed cooling air over the starter, this is supposed to help. My condition inspection is due in August so I'm going to drill mine and see what happens. My starter is the black bosch starter that they were using in 2004. I understand that there is an improved starter available, but I want to make sure that I have tried everything else first! By the way I do have the 20 amp alternator. Regards Woody Sulloway Trigear Sonex Jab 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:31 AM To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:49 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Ade Also check for a tight motor when hand propping hot. Peter _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Monday, 28 July 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Peter, Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Harris Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Ale, The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm. The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark. It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency. We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement. Peter _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.