---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/28/08: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Re: CHT's (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?=) 2. 07:08 AM - Re: CHT's (D.Hetrick) 3. 11:50 AM - Re: CHT's (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?=) 4. 01:38 PM - Start(er)ing woes - used to be CHTs (THOMAS SMALL) 5. 01:58 PM - Re: CHT's (D.Hetrick) 6. 05:10 PM - Re: Start(er)ing woes - used to be CHTs (Peter Harris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:16 AM PST US From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V (low section and low conductivity of the iron) ! You don=92t need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the brushes of the starter : http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 J=E9rme From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17 Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Peter, Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Harris Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Ale, The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm. The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark. It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency. We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement. Peter _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:29 AM PST US From: "D.Hetrick" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Jerome, How did you connect a ground "near the brushes" on the starter? Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: J=E9rme Delamare To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:11 AM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V (low section and low conductivity of the iron) ! You don't need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the brushes of the starter : http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 J=E9rme From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17 To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Peter, Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Harris To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Ale, The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm. The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark. It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency. We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement. Peter ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics. com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics. com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhttp://forums.matroni cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:50:23 AM PST US From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9rme_Delamare?= Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's The brushes are located between the two bolts head. So, when you ground the engine like that : http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 (the ground on this picture is the black wire) you can avoid voltage drop in the bolts of the starter. J=E9rme From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 16:05 Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Jerome, How did you connect a ground "near the brushes" on the starter? Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: J=E9rme Delamare Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:11 AM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V (low section and low conductivity of the iron) ! You don=92t need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the brushes of the starter : http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 J=E9rme From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17 Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Peter, Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Harris Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Ale, The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm. The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark. It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency. We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement. Peter _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matro nics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:25 PM PST US From: "THOMAS SMALL" Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Start(er)ing woes - used to be CHTs Fellows, I can't help but think you're chasing a lot of dead ends here. So with that said and bringing your immediate suspicion to what I'm going to say, I'll say it anyhow. Hot starts a problem? This is what I read. 1. When parking for a while, do you open the oil cooler door to allow hot air to escape? Point nose of a/c into prevailing wind? 2. You must have the hole in each RamDuct just before cylinders 1 and 2 to get some air over the case, onto the starter, and more importantly onto the coil behind cylinder 5. 3. Epoxy/flox a 3/4 inch "blast tube" to the back of left RamDuct and have it directed to the coil that is almost hidden behind cylinder 6. 4. Have an Odyssey battery, 625 or 680. Anything else and you're batting gnats with a toothpick. 5. The reasons behind numbers 2 and 3 above are that the coils in the 3300 tend to break down under heat - then magically become workable after cooldown. I know, I've had two of them. Replaced both and was not at all happy with the price, not at all. It may not be a starter problem. I have the old, old starter (engine 051) and won't replace it until it dies, and with 335 hours on it, it shows no sign of malaise. That new starter would be nice, Heck, even the ungraded Bosch would be great, but at the price someone quoted on here Jabiru must think their customers are made of $$$$. If anyone find the cross-reference numbers for that starter so I can go to Kubota or elsewhere and buy one, please post it. Remember what you paid for the above info... CAVU jeff HDS/3300 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:58:14 PM PST US From: "D.Hetrick" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Jerome, >From the photo it appears that you have a completely different starter motor than mine. The one I have is all black and, I'm told, that it is manufactured by Bosch. I believe the new ones are Nippon -Denso. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: J=E9rme Delamare To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 11:47 AM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's The brushes are located between the two bolts head. So, when you ground the engine like that : http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 (the ground on this picture is the black wire) you can avoid voltage drop in the bolts of the starter. J=E9rme From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 16:05 To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Jerome, How did you connect a ground "near the brushes" on the starter? Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: J=E9rme Delamare To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 5:11 AM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's I measure the voltage drop in the iron bolts last year : about 1 V (low section and low conductivity of the iron) ! You don't need a strap. You just have to connect the ground near the brushes of the starter : http://dl.free.fr/pJnfGsBU5 J=E9rme From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: lundi 28 juillet 2008 05:17 To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Peter, Pete at Jabiru USA also suggested the grounding strap. I may try that approach. Thanks, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Harris To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:51 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Ale, The problem is not the starter motor or the battery, it is caused because the engine gets very tight when warm. The cylinders cool faster than the pistons and you can confirm this by hand propping next time it happens. You will find it very difficult to turn over. I have over 30 hours but still have the problem but I was advised by the factory that this is a sign of a good engine. It would not be possible to restart my engine in flight. Even if it would crank it is too slow to activate the magneto spark. It is possibly also true that starter motors vary in efficiency. We need to get best possible advantage from the starter motor by mounting the battery with short leads (if possible). I also found that the two starter motor mounting bolts get very hot. They serve as an earth but they are fitted with Loctite and not well earthed. I added a separate earth strap from the brushes end of the starter motor to earth for some improvement. Peter ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Hetrick Sent: Sunday, 27 July 2008 11:31 PM To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Alberto, Sorry I was not able to get back to you. We left to catch a flight to BCN immediately after writing to you. I wanted to discuss the starter motor on the J3300. I have replaced three batteries because the engine would not restart after running for awhile. I've finally reached the conclusion that the problem is not the batteries but the starter motor. After running the engine the starter motor gets very hot. This, of course, increases the resistance so that all the current going into the starter motor is trying to overcome the high resistance. Anyway, I'm now looking for a replacement starter motor. Regards, Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:03 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Hello Dale, Only 55Km, so I you want to meet us It would be great. What about saturday? Are you living BCN on sunday? Let me know. 2008/7/16 D.Hetrick : Hello Alberto, My wife and I will be arriving in Barcelona Friday the 17th at about 0930. We have reservations for two days at the "Sunotel Central" Gran Via De Les Corts Catalanes 570. How far are you from the city? If convenient, please call me at the hotel after 1300 on Thursday. Thank you, Dale Hetrick Europa Tri-Gear/ Jabiru 3300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Iberplanes IGL To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: CHT's Nice question, I=B4ve read the manual and it only says min and max temperatures. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List a>http://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics. com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics. com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhttp://forums.matroni cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhref="http://forums.matronics. com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-Listhttp://forums.matroni cs.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:12 PM PST US From: "Peter Harris" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Start(er)ing woes - used to be CHTs Thomas, You have not referred to the most common cause of the problem which is that the engine gets very tight when it stops because the barrels cool quicker than the pistons and grip the pistons tight. Hand propping soon after you shut down will show that some engines (mine) gets so tight it is difficult to turn over and you cannot "feel" the compression. I have confirmed this with advice from the factory, they say it is a good sign for a tight engine. Consequently although it is good practice to make life easy for the starter, the problem is not the starter. As a matter of interest more recent engines with additional cooling fins have suffered from the reverse problem. On climb out the cooling fins are so effective that the pistons expand under heat into the well cooled smaller barrels. We have had an instance when the piston head came off in initial climb out . These engines should be carefully ground run and maybe due care with limited throttle for take off during the early run in period. JMHO. Peter _____ From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of THOMAS SMALL Sent: Tuesday, 29 July 2008 6:30 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Start(er)ing woes - used to be CHTs Fellows, I can't help but think you're chasing a lot of dead ends here. So with that said and bringing your immediate suspicion to what I'm going to say, I'll say it anyhow. Hot starts a problem? This is what I read. 1. When parking for a while, do you open the oil cooler door to allow hot air to escape? Point nose of a/c into prevailing wind? 2. You must have the hole in each RamDuct just before cylinders 1 and 2 to get some air over the case, onto the starter, and more importantly onto the coil behind cylinder 5. 3. Epoxy/flox a 3/4 inch "blast tube" to the back of left RamDuct and have it directed to the coil that is almost hidden behind cylinder 6. 4. Have an Odyssey battery, 625 or 680. Anything else and you're batting gnats with a toothpick. 5. The reasons behind numbers 2 and 3 above are that the coils in the 3300 tend to break down under heat - then magically become workable after cooldown. I know, I've had two of them. Replaced both and was not at all happy with the price, not at all. It may not be a starter problem. I have the old, old starter (engine 051) and won't replace it until it dies, and with 335 hours on it, it shows no sign of malaise. That new starter would be nice, Heck, even the ungraded Bosch would be great, but at the price someone quoted on here Jabiru must think their customers are made of $$$$. If anyone find the cross-reference numbers for that starter so I can go to Kubota or elsewhere and buy one, please post it. Remember what you paid for the above info... CAVU jeff HDS/3300 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.