Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:43 AM - Re: Re: Results of GAMI Lean Tests (Lynn Matteson)
2. 04:53 AM - Fuel (BobbyPaulk@COMCAST.NET)
3. 05:21 AM - Re: Re: Results of GAMI Lean Tests (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Results of GAMI Lean Tests (Lynn Matteson)
5. 09:44 AM - Re: Fuel (T. Graziano)
6. 09:47 AM - Re: Jab 3300 vs Rotax 912ULS performance - technical interpretation (Pete Krotje)
7. 05:07 PM - Re: Fuel (Peter Harris)
8. 06:25 PM - Re: Fuel (Hollis Babb)
9. 09:08 PM - Re: Fuel (Peter Harris)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Results of GAMI Lean Tests |
Thanks for the tip, Terry. I'll check it out.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 739.7 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
do not archive
On Aug 20, 2009, at 1:47 AM, Terry Phillips wrote:
> <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
>
> Lynn wrote
>
>
>> Three different tests, flown at 4500', 6000-6300', and
>> 6500-7200'....these were supposed to be at a fixed altitude, but you
>> know how that goes, when you're busy writing things down, and nobody
>> else to keep track of the airplane.
>
>
> Lynn
>
> If you're not familiar with Waiter and his data logger software, I
> suggest that check out
>
> http://www.iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml
>
> With Waiter's software, a low level laptop can give second by
> second recording of your EFIS data. I believe the software is free.
> I'm planning to use it for my phase 1 tests ... when I get to that
> point.
>
> Terry
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
List,
Is anyone using Auto Fuel with Ethanol. I am particularly interested in the 601
XL with Jabiru 3300 but would like data on any low wing with pumped fuel.
I know some Rotax pilots using it but they have gravity fed fuel systems.
I plan on starting test at altitude by using one tank for 100 LL and the other
for High Octane BP that formerly was Amoco White gas. I was using it before the
change to Ethanol but have had concerns about it now.
Even using 100 LL I get a lower pressure with the boost pump prior to start when
the engine is hot and been sitting for a while. My main concern would be at
Take Off with a hot engine and lose fuel fuel pressure due to Vaporization or
cavitation. Ground temperature is normally over 90 deg. in summer.
anyone have experience with this ??
Bobby
601 XL 87 Hrs.
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Results of GAMI Lean Tests |
Good Morning Terry,
That sounds like a great idea!
The one caution I would make is that we still need to go slowly. It takes
time for of the temperature probe to stabilize and for the spinning turbine
wheel of the fuel flow unit to stabilize. It is recommended that the fuel
flow be allowed to stabilize for at least thirty seconds for each one tenth
of a gallon change of fuel flow.
One more caveat. If you accidentally go two tenths of a gallon, don't try
to go back.. Natural hysteresis will upset the data.
Take care with gathering the data and it's usefulness multiplies. For
engines that cruise at twelve to fourteen GPH, three tenths of a gallon
increments are adequate. For the Jabiru. I would shoot for one tenth of a gallon
per check point. Not having to record the data manually sure helps!
Most of the above suggestions were stolen from the GAMI literature!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
LL22
Stearman N3977A
In a message dated 8/20/2009 12:48:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
ttp44@rkymtn.net writes:
http://www.iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Results of GAMI Lean Tests |
Speaking of turbine wheels......I would love to try a turbine wheel
right behind my TBI, to see if such a device would stir up the
mixture and possibly create (1) a better distribution of said
mixture, and (2) a better mixing of the mixture. When I worked at
the Chrysler Proving Grounds Wind Tunnel, we had coolant flow meters
that were built of stainless steel, and used a turbine wheel almost
exactly like I'd like to try. Maybe the diameter of those might have
been a bit small, but I mention that to possibly trigger some
thinking. I haven't done a search yet, but thought I'd pass the idea
out there, and maybe someone knows of such a thing. My idea of using
a small turbine wheel is not to supercharge.....not even to have the
wheel powered, but for it to just spin from the air passing by.
Powering it will be another chapter. : )
I've got my cowls off to do some fuel line mods, and in looking at my
intake runners.....boy, that are not THAT far off in length compared
to one another.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 739.7 hrs
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying
On Aug 20, 2009, at 8:17 AM, BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> Good Morning Terry,
>
> That sounds like a great idea!
>
> The one caution I would make is that we still need to go slowly. It
> takes time for of the temperature probe to stabilize and for the
> spinning turbine wheel of the fuel flow unit to stabilize. It is
> recommended that the fuel flow be allowed to stabilize for at least
> thirty seconds for each one tenth of a gallon change of fuel flow.
>
> One more caveat. If you accidentally go two tenths of a gallon,
> don't try to go back.. Natural hysteresis will upset the data.
>
> Take care with gathering the data and it's usefulness multiplies.
> For engines that cruise at twelve to fourteen GPH, three tenths of
> a gallon increments are adequate. For the Jabiru. I would shoot for
> one tenth of a gallon per check point. Not having to record the
> data manually sure helps!
>
> Most of the above suggestions were stolen from the GAMI literature!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> LL22
> Stearman N3977A
>
>
> In a message dated 8/20/2009 12:48:28 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> ttp44@rkymtn.net writes:
> http://www.iflyez.com/EFISRecorder.shtml
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Bobby,
I was, unknown to me, using BP, 93 Octane, with 5% alcohol for some
unknown short time. I had been using BP for about two years when I
noticed that my fuel caps* were suddenly becoming difficult to remove
and it was to the point that the "locking tab/cap rotator" of the cap
would hardly move without some mechanical assist. This was for my
inboard tanks only**. It was then that I noticed that the gas pumps now
had "may contain up to 10% alcohol" stickers.
My electrical back up fuel pump is after my gascolator, and before
my fuel filter and engine mechanical pump. I had been flying in 90 -
100 F weather with no problems other than the fuel cap problem.
* Fuel caps are "lightweight SPRL fuel caps"; Aircraft Spruce P/N
05-28663, I believe. Newer ones may have alcohol resistant "O" rings.
**I only put avgas in my outboard tanks because I rarely use them and
want avgas for longer term stability.
I now only use mogas without the algore additive or avgas. Even
though the station at which I buy my mogas has a sign "NO Alcohol", I
still run a check.
Tony Graziano
XL/Jab; N493TG; 520 hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: BobbyPaulk@COMCAST.NET
To: Digest JabiruEngine-List
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:53 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel
List,
Is anyone using Auto Fuel with Ethanol. I am particularly interested
in the 601 XL with Jabiru 3300 but would like data on any low wing with
pumped fuel.
I know some Rotax pilots using it but they have gravity fed fuel
systems.
I plan on starting test at altitude by using one tank for 100 LL and
the other for High Octane BP that formerly was Amoco White gas. I was
using it before the change to Ethanol but have had concerns about it
now.
Even using 100 LL I get a lower pressure with the boost pump prior to
start when the engine is hot and been sitting for a while. My main
concern would be at Take Off with a hot engine and lose fuel fuel
pressure due to Vaporization or cavitation. Ground temperature is
normally over 90 deg. in summer.
anyone have experience with this ??
Bobby
601 XL 87 Hrs.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Jab 3300 vs Rotax 912ULS performance - technical |
interpretation
Based on US prices your cost figures for the Jab and Rotax are backwards.
Jabiru 3300 plus fwf kit = $20,450. Rotax + fwf kit = $24,500+
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
931-680-2800
www.usjabiru.com
-----Original Message-----
From: flylightning [mailto:info@flylightning.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: FW: JabiruEngine-List: Jab 3300 vs Rotax 912ULS performance -
technical interpretation
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Victor
Menkal
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 8:39 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Jab 3300 vs Rotax 912ULS performance - technical
interpretation
Hi folks. Trying to determine the increase in performance I could
expect by using a Jab 3300 rather than a Rotax 912ULS in my soon to be
built CH750 and would appreciate some technical help with the numbers.
The numbers I get are as follows
Jabiru 3300 @ 3300 RPM, 123 HP, 200 ft lbs, 178 lbs "ramp" weight,
$24500 with CH750 FWF
Rotax 912ULS @ 5800 RPM, 100 HP, 94 ft lbs - 225 ft lbs with 2.43
reduction gear, 156 lbs "ramp" weight, $20000 with CH750 FWF
Was I correct to calculate the shaft torque for the Rotax by
mulitpllying by the reduction gear ratio?
Would some power loss but not torque? Ie the Rotax max HP at shaft
will actually be a bit less due to friction losses but torque will be
same.
Appreciate technical advice on these numbers ie what does higher HP
but lower torque in Jab actually mean in real life? Will the Jab
give faster cruise but the Rotax more pull under heavy loads?
I am particularly interested in what the numbers would mean for float
operations.
Thanx gang.
Cpt Vic
Building Zenair CH750
Whitehorse Yukon
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Bobby
I think you will find that Ethanol is a solvent for epoxy resin. Not sure if
you have FG tanks?
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobbyPaulk@COMCAST.NET
Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2009 9:53 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel
List,
Is anyone using Auto Fuel with Ethanol. I am particularly interested in the
601 XL with Jabiru 3300 but would like data on any low wing with pumped
fuel.
I know some Rotax pilots using it but they have gravity fed fuel systems.
I plan on starting test at altitude by using one tank for 100 LL and the
other for High Octane BP that formerly was Amoco White gas. I was using it
before the change to Ethanol but have had concerns about it now.
Even using 100 LL I get a lower pressure with the boost pump prior to start
when the engine is hot and been sitting for a while. My main concern would
be at Take Off with a hot engine and lose fuel fuel pressure due to
Vaporization or cavitation. Ground temperature is normally over 90 deg. in
summer.
anyone have experience with this ??
Bobby
601 XL 87 Hrs.
18:06:00
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Kit builders now have a coating for the tanks so that is not a problem.
Sent from my iPhone
Hollis Babb
256-506-2834
On Aug 20, 2009, at 7:02 PM, "Peter Harris"
<peterjfharris@bigpond.com> wrote:
> Bobby
>
> I think you will find that Ethanol is a solvent for epoxy resin. Not
> sure if you have FG tanks?
>
> Peter
>
>
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BobbyPaulk@COMCAST.NET
> Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2009 9:53 PM
> To: Digest JabiruEngine-List
> Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel
>
>
> List,
> Is anyone using Auto Fuel with Ethanol. I am particularly
> interested in the 601 XL with Jabiru 3300 but would like data on any
> low wing with pumped fuel.
> I know some Rotax pilots using it but they have gravity fed fuel
> systems.
> I plan on starting test at altitude by using one tank for 100 LL and
> the other for High Octane BP that formerly was Amoco White gas. I
> was using it before the change to Ethanol but have had concerns
> about it now.
> Even using 100 LL I get a lower pressure with the boost pump prior
> to start when the engine is hot and been sitting for a while. My
> main concern would be at Take Off with a hot engine and lose fuel
> fuel pressure due to Vaporization or cavitation. Ground temperature
> is normally over 90 deg. in summer.
> anyone have experience with this ??
>
> Bobby
> 601 XL 87 Hrs.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> www.avg.com 270.13.63/2316 - Release Date: 08/20/09 18:06:00
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hollis,
Have you got details of the stuff?
Thanks
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hollis
Babb
Sent: Friday, 21 August 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel
Kit builders now have a coating for the tanks so that is not a problem.
Sent from my iPhone
Hollis Babb
256-506-2834
On Aug 20, 2009, at 7:02 PM, "Peter Harris" <peterjfharris@bigpond.com>
wrote:
Bobby
I think you will find that Ethanol is a solvent for epoxy resin. Not sure if
you have FG tanks?
Peter
_____
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobbyPaulk@COMCAST.NET
Sent: Thursday, 20 August 2009 9:53 PM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel
List,
Is anyone using Auto Fuel with Ethanol. I am particularly interested in the
601 XL with Jabiru 3300 but would like data on any low wing with pumped
fuel.
I know some Rotax pilots using it but they have gravity fed fuel systems.
I plan on starting test at altitude by using one tank for 100 LL and the
other for High Octane BP that formerly was Amoco White gas. I was using it
before the change to Ethanol but have had concerns about it now.
Even using 100 LL I get a lower pressure with the boost pump prior to start
when the engine is hot and been sitting for a while. My main concern would
be at Take Off with a hot engine and lose fuel fuel pressure due to
Vaporization or cavitation. Ground temperature is normally over 90 deg. in
summer.
anyone have experience with this ??
Bobby
601 XL 87 Hrs.
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|