Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:49 AM - Re: Re: Problem after ground run (James, Clive R)
2. 06:30 AM - Re: Problem after ground run (wypaul)
3. 07:50 AM - Re: Problem after ground run (wypaul)
4. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: Problem after ground run (Kayberg@aol.com)
5. 12:56 PM - Re: Re: Problem after ground run (Kayberg@aol.com)
6. 01:50 PM - Re: Radio popping (Noelloveys)
7. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Problem after ground run (Michael Hilderbrand)
8. 08:20 PM - Re: Radio popping (Michael Hilderbrand)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Problem after ground run |
I took a cylinder off my Jab myself, not rocket science and no more
complicated than a car strip down or a motorcycle cylinder. I just
talked it though with a Jab mechanic to get the tips as to what made it
easy. Get your seasoned mechanic to have a chat with a Jab mechanic,
will save a little time.
It takes very little metal loss to give the clonk noise, I was surprised
with what was found after the oil problem on my 3300. The amount of
metal missing from the piston was very small but the noise was very
loud.
For me 'ticking' is valves and clonking is pistons.
Good luck with the repairs, Regards, Clive
________________________________
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Hilderbrand
Sent: 25 October 2009 01:01
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Problem after ground run
After taking the valve covers off it does not look like a rocker &
pushrod slip. The knocking sound is REALLY prominent about 3" out from
the crankcase on the cylinder (using the old screwdriver to the ear
trick). My father has a hard time believing a sticking valve would be
heard so close to the crankcase. I am NOT real mechanical so I refer
often to my father's suggestion and ideas. He thinks the sound is
probably from a messed up piston ring - at least, that is his latest
thoughts.
Another question I have: IF this requires replacing the piston and
honing the cylinder, where would you guys take it? Is this engine easy
enough to disassemble that a seasoned veteran mechanic should be able to
perform such a task? Maybe an AP? And, can this task be performed
without taking the engine off the mount? The local airport owner was
telling me that AP's take jugs off certificated engines independently
all the time.... Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Michael Hilderbrand
Derby, Kansas
Http://www.kansasflying.com
________________________________
From: "Kayberg@aol.com" <Kayberg@aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:46:02 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Problem after ground run
Sorry, all, I thought Don was the guy with the problem...but
Hilderbrand is in Kansas with the sticking valve.
Please take that into account.
doug koenigsberg
In a message dated 10/24/2009 3:36:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Kayberg@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 10/24/2009 11:36:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight
Time, burdon1@COMCAST.NET writes:
Hi Doug, are you talking about carbon buildup causing
the lifter to stick ? What typically has been seen as the cause of
sticking lifters when found on 2200 and 3300's ? Anyone ?
Thanks, Don Burkholder
Use of autofuel with ethanol prompted some problems. There was
some kind of unknown crud that showed up as a yellow gunk which seemed
to gum up the valves and left deposits in the cylinders. It was bad
enough that the lifters stuck and the valves bent. There was no carbon
buildup.
When the engine is cold, at least at first, the lifters dont
stick and the engine will run fine. But when it is warm or hot, you can
get the momentary sticking like you can hear on the video.
I would suggest checking the fuel by removing and dumping the
Bing bowl in a clear glass jar, running the fuel pump and letting the
fuel in the lines run into another clear jar for a pint or so and then
checking your filter (I would replace it, they are cheap). If you have
a gascolater, then dump it as well. Let the jars set overnite and see
what ends up in the bottom.
It is possible to run really rich and get lifter sticking as
well....at least I would think so. I dont know about that.
The heads do come off quite easily and if you have access to a
valve spring compressor of some sort, it is easy to remove the valves.
Then you would know for sure what the substance is.
If you are in the early stages of using the engine, I hope you
are checking the CHTs carefully.
You should take a good look at the fuel before calling
Shelbyville.
Doug
=========== BLOCKQUOTE>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Problem after ground run |
Michael,
It is a simple job but it does require a special wrench to torq up the cylinder
which you can buy from Proto for 5 or so bucks. Talk to Pete first, sounds like
it may be warranty work.
--------
Paul Spackman
Q-2 Jabiru 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269323#269323
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Problem after ground run |
The torque adaptor is Proto J 5114 or if you want to pay more Snap On FRDH 141
that is used to torque the cylinder base nut.
--------
Paul Spackman
Q-2 Jabiru 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=269330#269330
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Problem after ground run |
In a message dated 10/24/2009 6:57:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
bw12345@sbcglobal.net writes:
Gentlemen
Since this sight is new to me I have a question. Who is Pete at
Shelbyville and how would I get in touch if necessary?
BOB
Sorry, Pete Krotje is the main man at US Jabiru and a personal friend.
They are located in Shelbyville, Tennessee, USA. They are the largest
seller of Jabiru products....possibly in the world.
You would contact him as below:
Sales Info: 1-800-JABIRU1 (1-800-522-4781)
Service & Support: 931-680-2800 | Fax: 931-680-1817 | _info@usjabiru.com_
(mailto:info@usjabiru.com)
Hope that helps.
Doug Koenigsberg
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Problem after ground run |
First, I would talk to the US Jabiru guys. Call them tomorrow.
Second, I would do what they suggest, not your local A & P. The engine
is a little jewel, but it is not a Lycoming or a Continental. You could
easily UPS them the parts if necessary.
Very unlikely it is a piston ring. They dont make that noise when they
break!
You wont have to take the engine off the mount to fix it.
Doug
In a message dated 10/24/2009 9:03:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
m_hilderbrand@sbcglobal.net writes:
After taking the valve covers off it does not look like a rocker & pushrod
slip. The knocking sound is REALLY prominent about 3" out from the
crankcase on the cylinder (using the old screwdriver to the ear trick). My father
has a hard time believing a sticking valve would be heard so close to the
crankcase. I am NOT real mechanical so I refer often to my father's
suggestion and ideas. He thinks the sound is probably from a messed up piston
ring
- at least, that is his latest thoughts.
Another question I have: IF this requires replacing the piston and honing
the cylinder, where would you guys take it? Is this engine easy enough to
disassemble that a seasoned veteran mechanic should be able to perform
such a task? Maybe an AP? And, can this task be performed without taking the
engine off the mount? The local airport owner was telling me that AP's
take jugs off certificated engines independently all the time.... Any
suggestions?
Thanks!
Michael Hilderbrand
Derby, Kansas
Http://www.kansasflying.com
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Because your interference speeds up with rpm it suggests a few things.
First of all because aircraft and towers you are talking to do not hear
the interference it means the problem is not radio frequency (RF). This
is great as it eliminates checking all the coax wires to your antennas.
A few other possibilities exist.
One can be a shield on a shielded wire that is grounded at both ends.
Grounding the shield at both ends turns the shield from a shield to an
inductor. Sort of like a guard turning to the other side.
Another possibility is the p leads for your magnetos should be shielded
wires grounded at one end preferably the firewall end.
I=99m not sure if you are using an audio panel or not but if you
are, all the interconnect wires going between the audio panel and the
other items of your stack should be made using shielded wire grounded at
the audio panel end. That goes for things like the mic and phone lines
going to the jacks.
Once you have checked out those few items and made sure the case of your
radio is also securely grounded if you still get the interference try
resistor plugs or even resistor plug caps.
Keep us all informed on how things turn out for you.
One small piece of advice is there are literally hundreds of people
around who have a lot of experience, not to mention equipment who are
radio amateurs. It may not hurt to have one assist you in checking out
your installation.
I also recommend to everyone to draw a block diagram of your
installation as you do your check out include things in your
diagram such as wire colours or numbers and ground placements. Keep the
diagram so you can refer to it if you ever want to change your
installation or track down another problem.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Hilderbrand
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Radio popping
Noel,
Yes! It does increase with RPM. I was looking at my mag wires today
and noticed that I made a pigtail from the shield material in the wire
(side connected to engine) and grounded this to the firewall ground -
all my grounds connect eventually. The panel ground leads to the
firewall ground - which leads to the neg battery. I did not shield any
of the wires to or from my com radio - the instructions did not mention
it, anyways.. something to look at I guess.
Thanks!
Michael Hilderbrand
Derby, Kansas
Http://www.kansasflying.com
_____
From: Noelloveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:25:28 PM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Radio popping
Michael:
If you find the popping frequency increases with rpm then your problem
is most probably a bad ground in your audio section. Audio connecting
lines should only be shield grounded at the feed end never at
both ends. The grounds do however need to be very clean. You will
find, as I have, better than 90% of interference problems in aircraft
are caused by poor grounding somewhere. The trick is to figure out
where.
If you find the popping does not increase with throttle then the
possibility is a heavy capacitor of sufficient voltage across the DC
buss on your radios should cure it.
In the meantime the R582 engine ( you may have one) is a bit of an
oddball in that it is recommended to use both resistor caps (5K Ohm) and
5K Ohm plugs.
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Hilderbrand
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Radio popping
Noel,
I could not appreciate if the popping changes rate with RPM during the
ground running operations. My attention was really focused on RPM, EGT,
and CHTs at the time (trying to fine-tune an Aerocarb for first flight
operation). At the time I was aggressively changing RPM but was on the
local frequency - traffic transmissions were too short in nature to
notice a change in popping. When no one is transmitting everything is
normal.
I will listen to ATIS continuously on Friday while running the engine
and report back.
Thanks!
Michael Hilderbrand
Derby, KS
www.kansasflying.com <http://www.kansasflying.com/>
_____
From: Noelloveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:48:06 AM
Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Radio popping
This is Thursday morning so I=99m taking a chanced you
haven=99t gotten any answers or even a fix yet.
First thing is, does the popping change rate with the rpm of the engine?
Noel
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Michael Hilderbrand
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Radio popping
Hey guys,
I am doing some initial ground rounds with my Jab3300 engine and was
noticing a popping noise in the headsets - while receiving ONLY. The
popping noise is pretty bad. At first I thought is might have been the
other aircraft's radio (flying in the pattern), but after tuning to a
local ATIS I got the same popping sound. I am just trying to see if it
might be something obvious, something that one of you might have
experienced as well? It does not happen when the engine is not running.
I am thinking that maybe I should start out by buying resistor plugs?
I am NOT an electrical person at all... but I did try to wire per the
Aeroelectric manual.
Any thoughts?
Michael Hilderbrand
Derby, Kansas
<http://www.kansasflying.com/> Http://www.kansasflying.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Na================
======== _ms.matronics.com/" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.cwww.matronics.com/contribution"
target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.m================
=====
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigatrums.matronics.com/" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://forums.matronics->
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
JabiruEngine-List Email Forum -
Features Navigator to browse
such as List Un/Subscription,
Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Problem after ground run |
Thanks, Doug!- I-appreciate the advise. I do plan on calling Pete in th
e-morning, before doing anything-else.--All these random, expensive
thoughts, enter my head.. and, of course,-this all happens on the weeken
d!=0A-Michael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0AHttp://www.kansasflying.com
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Kayberg@aol.com" <
Kayberg@aol.com>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, Octo
ber 25, 2009 2:56:04 PM=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Problem after
ground run=0A=0AFirst, I would talk to the US Jabiru guys. Call them tomor
row.=0A=0ASecond, I would do what they suggest, not your local A & P.--
The engine is a little jewel, but it is not a Lycoming or a Continental.
-- You could easily UPS them the parts if necessary.=0A=0AVery unlikely
it is a piston ring.-- They dont make that noise when they break!=0A
=0AYou wont have to take the engine off the mount to fix it.=0A=0ADoug=0A
=0A=0AIn a message dated 10/24/2009 9:03:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, m_h
ilderbrand@sbcglobal.net writes:=0AAfter taking the valve covers off it-d
oes not look-like a rocker &-pushrod slip. The knocking-sound is REAL
LY prominent about 3" out-from the crankcase on the cylinder (using the
-old screwdriver to the ear trick).-My father has a hard time believing
a sticking valve would-be heard so-close to the crankcase.- I am-N
OT real mechanical so I refer often to my father's suggestion and ideas. He
thinks-the sound is probably from a messed up piston ring - at least, th
at is-his latest thoughts. =0A>=0A>Another question I have:--IF this
requires-replacing the piston and honing the cylinder, where would you gu
ys take it?--Is this engine easy enough to disassemble that a seasoned
veteran mechanic should be able to perform such a task? Maybe-an AP?- A
nd, can-this task be performed without taking the engine off the mount?
-- The local-airport owner was telling me that AP's take jugs off cer
tificated engines independently all the time....-- Any suggestions?-
- =0A>=0A>Thanks!=0A>-Michael Hilderbrand=0A>Derby, Kansas=0A>Http://ww
======================
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Radio popping |
Noel, I appreciate all your help.=C2- I=C2-will check & double check al
l my wires.=C2- I guess if all else fails Bob knockoll's (sp) just lives
20 or so miles away... maybe he would look at it. :)=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
- =0A=C2-Michael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0AHttp://www.kansasflying.
com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Noelloveys <noe
lloveys@yahoo.ca>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, Oct
ober 25, 2009 6:17:18 PM=0ASubject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Radio popping=0A
=0A=0ABecause your interference speeds up with rpm it suggests a few things
.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AFirst of all because aircraft and towers you are talkin
g to do not hear the interference it means the problem is not radio frequen
cy (RF).=C2- This is great as it eliminates checking all the coax wires t
o your antennas.=0A=C2-=0AA few other possibilities exist.=0AOne can be a
shield on a shielded wire that is grounded at both ends.=C2- Grounding t
he shield at both ends turns the shield from a shield to an inductor.=C2-
Sort of like a guard turning to the other side.=C2- =0A=C2-
=0AAnother possibility is the p leads for your magnetos should be shielded
wires grounded at one end preferably the firewall end.=C2- =0A
=C2-=0AI=99m not sure if you are using an audio panel or not but if
you are, all the interconnect wires going between the audio panel and the
other items of your stack should be made using shielded wire grounded at th
e audio panel end.=C2- That goes for things like the mic and phone lines
going to the jacks.=0A=C2-=0AOnce you have checked out those few items an
d made sure the case of your radio is also securely grounded if you still g
et the interference try resistor plugs or even resistor plug caps.=0A=C2-
=0AKeep us all informed on how things turn out for you.=0A=C2-=0AOne smal
l piece of advice is there are literally hundreds of people around who have
a lot of experience, not to mention equipment who are radio amateurs.=C2
- It may not hurt to have one assist you in checking out your installatio
n.=0A=C2-=0AI also recommend to everyone to draw a block diagram of your
installation as you do your check out=C2- include things in your
diagram such as wire colours or numbers and ground placements.=C2- Keep
the diagram so you can refer to it if you ever want to change your installa
tion or track down another problem.=0A=C2-=0ANoel=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2
-=0AFrom:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabir
uengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Hilderbrand=0ASent:
Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:51 AM=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Radio popping=0A=C2-=0ANoel, =0A=C2-
=0AYes!=C2- It does increase with RPM.=C2- I was looking at=C2-my mag
wires today and noticed that I=C2-made a pigtail from the shield materia
l in the wire (side connected to engine) and grounded this=C2-to the fire
wall ground -=C2-all my grounds connect eventually.=C2- The=C2-panel
ground leads to the firewall ground - which leads to the neg battery.=C2-
I did not shield any of the wires to or from my com radio - the instructio
ns did not mention it, anyways..=C2- something to look at I guess.=0A=C2
-=0AThanks! =0A=C2-=0AMichael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0AHttp://www.
kansasflying.com =0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=0A________________________________
=0A=0AFrom:Noelloveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matroni
cs.com=0ASent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:25:28 PM=0ASubject: RE: JabiruEng
ine-List: Radio popping=0A=0A=0A=0AMichael:=0A=C2-=0AIf you find the popp
ing frequency increases with rpm then your problem is most probably a bad g
round in your audio section.=C2- Audio connecting lines should only be sh
ield grounded at the feed end never at both ends.=C2- The ground
s do however need to be very clean.=C2- You will find, as I have, better
than 90% of interference problems in aircraft are caused by poor grounding
somewhere.=C2- The trick is to figure out where.=0A=C2-=0AIf you find t
he popping does not increase with throttle then the possibility is a heavy
capacitor of sufficient voltage across the DC buss on your radios should cu
re it.=0A=C2-=0AIn the meantime the R582 engine ( you may have one) is a
bit of an oddball in that it is recommended to use both resistor caps (5K O
hm) and 5K Ohm plugs.=0A=C2-=0ANoel=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-jabiruengine-li
st-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.co
m] On Behalf Of Michael Hilderbrand=0ASent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 6:04
PM=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List:
Radio popping=0A=C2-=0ANoel, =0A=C2-=0AI could not appreciate=C2-if
the popping changes rate with RPM during the ground running operations.=C2
- My attention was really focused on RPM, EGT, and CHTs=C2-at the time
(trying to fine-tune an Aerocarb for first flight operation).=C2- At the
time I was aggressively changing RPM but was on the local frequency - traff
ic transmissions were too short in nature to notice a change in popping.=C2
-When no one is transmitting everything is=C2-normal. =0A=C2-=0AI wil
l listen to ATIS continuously on Friday while running the engine and report
back. =0A=0AThanks!=0A=C2-=0AMichael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, KS=0Awww.kansa
sflying.com=0A=C2-=0A=C2- =0A=C2-=0A=0A______________________________
__=0A=0A=C2-=0AFrom: Noelloveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>=0ATo: jabiruengine-
list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:48:06 AM=0ASubject
: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Radio popping=0AThis is Thursday morning so I
=99m taking a chanced you haven=99t gotten any answers=C2- or ev
en a fix yet.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AFirst thing is, does the popping change rat
e with the rpm of the engine? =0A=C2-=0ANoel=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom:own
er-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-s
erver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Hilderbrand=0ASent: Monday, Octob
er 19, 2009 11:20 AM=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Jabir
uEngine-List: Radio popping=0A=C2-=0AHey guys, =0A=C2-=0AI am doing som
e initial ground rounds with my Jab3300 engine and was noticing a=C2-popp
ing noise in the headsets=C2- - while receiving ONLY.=C2-=C2-The popp
ing noise=C2-is pretty bad.=C2- At first I thought is might have=C2-b
een the other aircraft's radio (flying in the pattern), but after tuning to
a local ATIS I=C2-got the same popping sound.=C2-=C2- I=C2-am just
trying to see if it might be something obvious, something=C2-that one of
you might have experienced as well?=C2- It does not happen when the engi
ne is not running.=C2-=C2-I am thinking that maybe I should start out b
y buying resistor plugs?=C2- I am NOT an electrical person at all... but
I did try to wire per the Aeroelectric manual.=C2- =0A=C2-=0AAny though
ts?=C2-=C2-=0A=C2-=0AMichael Hilderbrand=0ADerby, Kansas=0AHttp://www
.kansasflying.com =0A=C2-=C2-=0A =C2-=0A =C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://ww
w.matronics.com/contribution=0A =C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Na==
====================== _ms.matr
onics.com/" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.cwww.mat
ronics.com/contribution" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.m==
=================== =0A=C2-=C2-
=0A =C2-=0A =C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A
=C2-=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Navigatrums.matronics.com/" target=_bla
nk rel=nofollow>http://forums.matronics-> =0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0Ahttp://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0A
============
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|