---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/12/10: 2 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:07 AM - Re: Re: Alternative Alternators (Rob Turk) 2. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Alternative Alternators (FLYaDIVE) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:31 AM PST US From: "Rob Turk" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Alternative Alternators Don, There are other means. People have installed B&C SD-8 and SD-20 alternators on the vacuum pad of their engine. There are also some who added pulleys and a belt to the engine to run an automotive alternator. Examples are on the Jabiru engine group on Yahoo!. It's all possible. You just have to ask yourself why. If your current setup aint broken, don't fix it... Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "dons701" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 8:46 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Alternative Alternators > > WOW... [Shocked] > > A few things for certain. I am about to begin Sport Pilot training in my > 701 and my issues for right now are minor. I can fly now. > > I know that no matter how many or how few ground connections one has they > need to be clean. Doing this as I go will not take much time. As for the > radio noise I will do some troubleshooting by switching off the alternator > at the breaker then listen for any change. Use my meter on the headset > jack's female sockets and check for ground. If I find some continuity I > can remove and insulate them and test again. etc..etc.. > > I would love to upgrade to the Jabiru 20 amp system if I needed it or > not as the engines come that way now from the factory, but the price is to > steep for me. For that reason, at the beginning of this post in the > enlightenment of experimentation, I asked if anyone had installed > something different on their planes. > > Perhaps I will kill two problems, occasional low voltage and some noise > through the headsets by cleaning and testing my grounds. > > Thanks for ALL your thoughts. > Don > > -------- > Zenith 701 #76120 > Jabiru 2200A #2456 55 hours > Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290088#290088 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Alternative Alternators From: FLYaDIVE Hi Rob: Well you are two up on me. I only speak a butchered version of English that should be know as American. And I am even better at butchering the spelling, thank God for Spell Check. One thing I have learned about the Web and emails is MANY, MANY Times the intent of the message is totally lost because you loose the personal part that is transferred through voice inflections. And I have a very difficult time with CAPITOL LETTERS. I was yelled at for using them because they are suppose to indicate that one is yelling. HELL! Who set up that rule, they never asked me about it. I use capitols when I want to stress or impress a point. I also tend to write like my old boss, a good mentor of mine. He was a professional witness in law suits on behalf of Cessna. I will NEVER be anywhere as good as he. But he would drive lawyers crazy. He very carefully picked his words when he sat in the witness box. And one of his favorite saying was: "I did not say that; What I said was..." And he would repeat himself WORD FOR WORD. That impressed the court stenographer and frustrated the lawyer. Anyway, I babble. Good meeting you Rob. And if you catch me in error please chime in. Barry ================================ On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Rob Turk wrote: > Hi Barry, > > The first part of your message lead me to believe that you coupled AH to > cranking amps, that's why I responded. I guess I misread or misunderstood > that part, my appologies. I guess that's what I get from being a non-native > speaker ;-) > > Best regards, > Rob (from The Netherlands, a lot closer to France, and unable to speak a > word of it ;-) > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* FLYaDIVE > *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, March 11, 2010 8:52 PM > *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Alternative Alternators > > Hello Rob: > > I'm sorry I don't see where you say I am not entirely right? I did not > over expand my explanation because it is not required. > I am very familiar with all that you mention but that was not the question, > ergo not my response. > > As for internal resistance. Manufactures ALL attempt to keep the internal > resistance (ir) low. > It is not in there quality interest to produce a battery with high ir. The > live cycle would be short and people would not > purchase their battery a second time. There are a few misleading > advertisement over the years which tend to lead you > to conclude the ir is lower in some batteries than others. Again, a sales > technique. > Unless you purchase a really poor Chinese Junk (pun intended) battery. > > I'm sure you know: I = E/R so yes you can get 200, 300, 500, 600 and even > 1200 Amps from a battery. > I = 12/.01 = 1200 Amps. But! For how long? That is not the issue. Again > sales has taken over and created a new term CCA > Cold Cranking Amps. This is totally arbitrary, why? Because there is no > standard for size of wires, length of the wires, > minimum voltage required by the starter, minimum or maximum current draw of > the starter OR the size of the load on the starter. > How is it said in French? Caviaort Emptor! [Hell I can spell in English! > Don't expect me to do it in French.] Let the Buyer be ware. > > Barry > On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Rob Turk wrote: > >> Barry, >> >> Close but not entirely right. The AH value is a multiplication of >> current(A) x hours(H) and indicates the amount of energy the battery can >> store. A 20AH battery will support a 1A load for 20 hours or a 4A load for 5 >> hours. The value is only valid for a low-current range, when you draw a lot >> of current you will not reach that rating. Your 20AH battery will not >> sustain 20A for an hour, or 40A for 30 minutes.. >> >> The start rating has nothing to do with the AH rating. The start rating is >> an indication for the internal resistance of the battery (usually the >> quality of the materials). There are 10AH batteries that can supply 500A >> start current, but also 50AH batteries that will not get over 100A due to >> high internal resistance. I use an Odyssey PC680 with just 17AH, but the >> ability to supply 600A start current. Plenty for my Jabiru 3300 engine. >> >> For ground, the rule is to have one good solid ground point, do not spread >> them all over the place. Take a single convenient spot. Close to the battery >> and engine ground is often good. Run your ground wires there. Do not spread >> them all over, as you run a big risk of ground loops. Ground loops exist >> when multiple devices share a single current path to ground. When one of >> them draws a lot of current or produces current spikes (strobes for >> example), then the other devices share the resulting voltage drop and get a >> noisy supply. If that is your radio, then you will hear the strobe whine >> through the headset. It is better to run two separate thinner ground wires >> to a single common ground point than to use a fat wire to the panel and fan >> out ground from there. Run a separate ground/negative wire for each >> device. Terminate them in a single point. >> >> When using shielded wires, only attach the shield to ground on one end. The >> only deviation from that is the coax cables you use for COM, NAV and >> transponder antenna's, they must be attached on both ends. >> >> Rob >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* FLYaDIVE >> *To:* jabiruengine-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:56 PM >> *Subject:* Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Alternative Alternators >> >> Hello Don: >> >> The amperage rating of a battery is not critical for in flight operations >> so going from a 20 to a 50 or even a 100 AH battery is not going to change >> the operation of the plane. UNLESS you are talking STARTING and what >> happens when you loose your alternator in flight and when you >> consider CURRENT DRAW Vs CURRENT SUPPLY. >> >> Basic FAA Regs require that the Alternator must be able to supply FULL >> LOAD AMPERAGE at 65% of its rating. So, if you have a 65 Amp current draw >> at full load you must have a 100 AH Alternator. OK, I know you are >> experimental and do not have to adhere to all the FAA regs, but Good Safety >> Practise is Good Safety Practise. >> >> Add up ALL your current draws and get an alternator that will EASILY >> handle the requirements. If the alternator is putting out power 100% of the >> time you have a LOAD on your engine which reduces your HP. In a car the HP >> draw requirement is about 1 to 2 HP just to run the alternator under load. >> >> The GOOD part is you are experimental so you can install an automotive >> alternator with a VERY GOOD built in voltage regulator and have piece of >> mind as well as a solid working electrical system. Especially one with NO >> NOISE on the radios :-) Very Nice Feeling. >> >> You also brought up a Very Good point - - - GROUNDS! You can not have too >> many. Add them all over your panel and add a couple to your Battery, >> Engine, Air Frame, Alternator, etc. A good ground system improves your >> entire electrical system on a plane, eliminates noise, gives you good >> charging and especially helpful in starting. >> >> >> OK, GOOD LUCK DON! >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 2:56 AM, dons701 wrote: >> >>> >>> Thanks for your responces >>> >>> While running both carb heaters, radio, nav and strobes, transponder, >>> etc, my EIS is alarming of a low voltage. While this is a temporary minor >>> situation at lower RPM's, I considered upgrading this charging system for a >>> more positive reliability and future lighting capabilities. Of course before >>> spending money on any new system, I will make sure this 10 amp unit does not >>> have any issues with resistance or grounds as it seems that the 120 watts >>> produced is being consumed. >>> >>> It would be nice to find out what the amperage is designed to be at >>> what RPM and or, what RPM full output is to be reached with minimal load. My >>> battery is an Odyssey PC545 that is maintained by a proper Odyssey charger. >>> I have considered going to the larger PC625 but the PC545 seems to be ok. >>> >>> I am not putting down the Jabiru charging system, it is what it is. IF I >>> am going to upgrade from this system, I need to weigh my options >>> Thanks, Don >>> >>> -------- >>> Zenith 701 #76120 >>> Jabiru 2200A #2456 55 hours >>> Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289998#289998 >>> h as List Un/Subscription, >>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List" target="_blank"> >>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List >>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com >>> Matt Dralle, List Admin. >>> ==== >>> >>> >>> >>> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* >> >> * >> >> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.