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1. 01:16 AM - Re: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller (=?utf-8?Q?J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me_Delamare?=)
2. 03:33 AM - Re: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller (Jay Parker)
3. 03:44 AM - Re: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller (Jay Parker)
4. 04:04 AM - Re: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller (Rob Turk)
5. 11:07 AM - Re: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller (Pete Krotje)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant |
Speed Propeller
Jay,
Would you like to be a flight tester ?
With this combination, you will be the flight tester for :
- Jabiru engine (each engine is different)
- Air master for Jabiru (how many propellers did they produced
for a Jabiru 2200 ?)
- The combination of the Jabiru 2200 and the airmaster.
(resonances, oscillating torque, inertia)
I=99ve already been in a similar position (early hydraulic lifter
engine + Silence Aircraft in flight adjustable propeller). The result of
resonances (and poor engineering from Silence Aircraft) :
http://jeromedelamare.free.fr/Vprop/index.html
The blade split in two part during initial climb (120 ft) :o((
Of course, Air master is a well known company and can=99t be
compared to Silence Aircraft, but, be careful.
The only one regret of the in flight adjustable propeller : the
additional drag during landing.
The propeller of my MCR is fitted for economic cruise speed at 120 kts
and 3000 rpm (less than 4 gal/hour). Even so, I can take off and land on
a 150 m (500 ft) runway and climb at 1600 ft/min.
J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Parker
Sent: jeudi 18 mars 2010 15:19
Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420
Constant Speed Propeller
Does anyone here have any data regarding the use of using an Airmaster
AP420 <http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/wab487.html>
http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/wab487.html with the Jabiru engine
preferably using the smaller 2200 on a Zenith CH-750 or comparable sized
plane? I=99m wondering if the Jabiru 2200 /w 85HP and Airmaster
would show noticeable improvements in average cruise speed, climb,
takeoff, to handle as well as the aircraft just fitted with a Jabiru
3300 with no constant speed prop, power-wise. I=99m a little
reluctant to use a smaller engine under 100 HP on the Zenith CH-750 even
though Zenith says it will fly with engines with horsepowers in the
range of 80 to 125 HP, but I would consider the 85HP Jabiru 2200 if it
were fitted with an Airmaster AP420 if Constant Speed propeller if I
could be shown to get the economy of a 4 stroke (4gals/hr) engine, with
the assurance of no sluggish handlings on take-off or climbs. I was
told I would have to register such a plane with an Airmaster as an
Experimental-LSA as opposed to just an Amateur Built-LSA. I=99m
not certain of the repercussions, cons or pros of registering a plane
one way or another, but for the sack of fuel economy and dependable
power when needed, I=99m toying with this idea of a CH-750 with a
Jab 2200 engine and an Airmaster AP420 Constant Speed Propeller combo.
I would appreciate any word, rumors etc on this topic and realize that
such a combo would be rare here in the States, but may not be unusual in
Australia, New Zealand or Tasmania since both the Jabiru and Airmaster
are products of that region.
Jay Parker
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant |
Speed Propeller
Good stuff.=C2- Thanks for the data and pics. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________
____________________=0AFrom: J=C3=A9r=C3=B4me Delamare <jeromedelamare@free
.fr>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, March 19, 2010 3:27
:40 AM=0ASubject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Request Info on Jabiru and the Air
master 420 Constant Speed Propeller=0A=0A=0AJay,=0AWould you like to be a f
light tester ?=0AWith this combination, you will be the flight tester for :
=0A-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Jabiru engine (e
ach engine is different)=0A-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2- Air master for Jabiru (how many propellers did they prod
uced for a Jabiru 2200 ?)=0A-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2
-=C2- The combination of the Jabiru 2200 and the airmaster. (resonances
, oscillating torque, inertia)=0AI=99ve already been in a si
milar position (early hydraulic lifter engine + Silence Aircraft in flight
adjustable propeller). The result of resonances (and poor engineering from
Silence Aircraft) :=0Ahttp://jeromedelamare.free.fr/Vprop/index.html=0AThe
blade split in two part during initial climb (120 ft)=C2- =C2-:o((=0AOf
course, Air master is a well known company and can=99t be compared t
o Silence Aircraft, but, be careful.=0A=C2-=0AThe only one regret of the
in flight adjustable propeller : the additional drag during landing. =0AThe
propeller of my MCR is fitted for economic cruise speed at 120 kts and 300
0 rpm (less than 4 gal/hour). Even so, I can take off and land on a 150 m (
500 ft) runway and climb at 1600 ft/min.=0A=C2-=0AJ=C3=A9r=C3=B4me=0A=C2
-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-
=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@
matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Beha
lf Of Jay Parker=0ASent: jeudi 18 mars 2010 15:19=0ATo: zenith750-list@matr
onics.com; jabiruengine-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: JabiruEngine-List: Re
quest Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller=0A=C2
-=0ADoes anyone here have any data regarding the use of using an Airmaste
r AP420 http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/wab487.html=C2-with the Jabiru
engine preferably using the smaller 2200 on a Zenith CH-750 or comparable
sized plane?=C2- I=99m wondering if the Jabiru 2200 /w 85HP and Air
master would show noticeable improvements in average cruise speed, climb, t
akeoff, to handle as well as=C2-the aircraft just fitted with a Jabiru 33
00 with no constant speed prop, power-wise.=C2- I=99m a little relu
ctant to use a smaller engine under 100 HP on the Zenith CH-750 even though
Zenith says it will fly with engines with horsepowers in the range of 80 t
o 125 HP, but I would consider the 85HP Jabiru 2200 if it were fitted with
an Airmaster AP420 if Constant Speed propeller if I could be shown to get t
he economy of a 4 stroke (4gals/hr) engine, with the assurance of no sluggi
sh handlings on take-off or climbs.=C2- I was told I would have to regist
er such a plane with an
Airmaster as an Experimental-LSA as opposed to just an Amateur Built-LSA.
=C2- I=99m not certain of the repercussions, cons or pros of regist
ering a plane one way or another, but for the sack of fuel economy and depe
ndable power when needed, I=99m toying with this idea of a CH-750 wit
h a Jab 2200 engine and an Airmaster AP420 Constant Speed Propeller combo.
=C2- I would appreciate any word, rumors etc on this topic and realize th
at such a combo would be rare here in the States, but may not be unusual in
Australia, New Zealand or Tasmania since both the Jabiru and Airmaster are
products of that region. =0A=C2-=0AJay Parker=0A =C2-=0A =C2-=0Ahttp
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.
===============
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 |
Constant Speed Propeller
Thanks Richard,=0A=C2-=C2-=C2- I need to read up on exactly what a EA
B registration is and what places it in that catagory.=C2- I knew it woul
d have to be registered non-standardly if the Constant Speed Prop were used
, but I was unsure of which exact catagory it would fall under.=0A=0AThank
you so much,=0AJay=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: R
ichard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>=0ATo: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:37:21 PM=0ASubject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: R
equest Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller=0A=0AJ
ay, Per FAR 1, Definitions, an LSA of any type cannot have an inflight adju
stable propeller.=C2- =0AAlso, unless Zenith is willing to build and cert
ify a CH-750 as an SLSA (Special Light Sport Aircraft)=C2-per=C2-FAR 21
.190=C2-and give you the necessary documentation to meet=C2-FAR 21.193e
you cannot register it as an ELSA (Experimental Light Sport Aircraft) per
FAR 21.191i(2). You can, however, register it as EAB (Experimental Amateur
Built) per FAR 21.191g.=0A=0ARick Girard=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:
18 AM, Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A=0ADoes anyone here have a
ny data regarding the use of using an Airmaster AP420 http://www.airmasterp
ropellers.com/wab487.html=C2-with the Jabiru engine preferably using the
smaller 2200 on a Zenith CH-750 or comparable sized plane?=C2- I=99
m wondering if the Jabiru 2200 /w 85HP and Airmaster would show noticeable
improvements in average cruise speed, climb, takeoff, to handle as well as
=C2-the aircraft just fitted with a Jabiru 3300 with no constant speed pr
op, power-wise.=C2- I=99m a little reluctant to use a smaller engin
e under 100 HP on the Zenith CH-750 even though Zenith says it will fly wit
h engines with horsepowers in the range of 80 to 125 HP, but I would consid
er the 85HP Jabiru 2200 if it were fitted with an Airmaster AP420 if Consta
nt Speed propeller if I could be shown to get the economy of a 4 stroke (4g
als/hr) engine, with the assurance of no sluggish handlings on take-off or
climbs.=C2- I was told I would have to register such a plane with an
Airmaster as an Experimental-LSA as opposed to just an Amateur Built-LSA.
=C2- I=99m not certain of the repercussions, cons or pros of regist
ering a plane one way or another, but for the sack of fuel economy and depe
ndable power when needed, I=99m toying with this idea of a CH-750 wit
h a Jab 2200 engine and an Airmaster AP420 Constant Speed Propeller combo.
=C2- I would appreciate any word, rumors etc on this topic and realize th
at such a combo would be rare here in the States, but may not be unusual in
Australia, New Zealand or Tasmania since both the Jabiru and Airmaster are
products of that region. =0A>=C2-=0A>Jay Parker=0A>=0A>=0A>ist" target
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List=0A>tp://fo
rums.matronics.com=0A>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A>=0A>
======================
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 |
Constant Speed Propeller
Before doing so, also consider the technical viability. An Airmaster
(and in fact just all constant speed props) is not approved by Jabiru
for use on their engines. If your engine breaks, you are s.o.l...
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Parker
To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Request Info on Jabiru and the
Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller
Thanks Richard,
I need to read up on exactly what a EAB registration is and what
places it in that catagory. I knew it would have to be registered
non-standardly if the Constant Speed Prop were used, but I was unsure of
which exact catagory it would fall under.
Thank you so much,
Jay
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:37:21 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Request Info on Jabiru and the
Airmaster 420 Constant Speed Propeller
Jay, Per FAR 1, Definitions, an LSA of any type cannot have an
inflight adjustable propeller.
Also, unless Zenith is willing to build and certify a CH-750 as an
SLSA (Special Light Sport Aircraft) per FAR 21.190 and give you the
necessary documentation to meet FAR 21.193e you cannot register it as an
ELSA (Experimental Light Sport Aircraft) per FAR 21.191i(2). You can,
however, register it as EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) per FAR
21.191g.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Does anyone here have any data regarding the use of using an
Airmaster AP420 http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/wab487.html with the
Jabiru engine preferably using the smaller 2200 on a Zenith CH-750 or
comparable sized plane? I=99m wondering if the Jabiru 2200 /w
85HP and Airmaster would show noticeable improvements in average cruise
speed, climb, takeoff, to handle as well as the aircraft just fitted
with a Jabiru 3300 with no constant speed prop, power-wise. I=99m
a little reluctant to use a smaller engine under 100 HP on the Zenith
CH-750 even though Zenith says it will fly with engines with horsepowers
in the range of 80 to 125 HP, but I would consider the 85HP Jabiru 2200
if it were fitted with an Airmaster AP420 if Constant Speed propeller if
I could be shown to get the economy of a 4 stroke (4gals/hr) engine,
with the assurance of no sluggish handlings on take-off or climbs. I
was told I would have to register such a plane with an Airmaster as an
Experimental-LSA as opposed to just an Amateur Built-LSA. I=99m
not certain of the repercussions, cons or pros of registering a plane
one way or another, but for the sack of fuel economy and dependable
power when needed, I=99m toying with this idea of a CH-750 with a
Jab 2200 engine and an Airmaster AP420 Constant Speed Propeller combo.
I would appreciate any word, rumors etc on this topic and realize that
such a combo would be rare here in the States, but may not be unusual in
Australia, New Zealand or Tasmania since both the Jabiru and Airmaster
are products of that region.
Jay Parker
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics==================
Message 5
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| Subject: | Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster 420 |
Constant Speed Propeller
I think you will find that the 2200 + airmaster will cost more than a
3300 engine. As far as economy =93 it will take the same amount
of gas to pull a 750 along at 95 mph no matter what engine you use. It
takes a certain amount of power to produce that amount of work. You can
use a 3300 that may be throttled back a bit or use a 2200 at a higher
power setting. They will use the same amount of fuel flying the same
aircraft at the same cruise speed. Add in the high drag of the 750 and
you will never get a whole lot of speed vs GPH.
Example: On the trip to Oshkosh from Tennessee last year. Flying side
by side with a Jabiru J170 with 2200 and a Jabiru J230 with 3300 engine.
The 3300 was throttled back and burned less fuel that the 2200 in the
J170 at a 105 knot cruise.
We saw the same thing with the 701. At the same cruise speed the 3300
used the same fuel burn. He larger engine was loafing along at lower
rpm.
Pete Krotje
Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC
931-680-2800
www.usjabiru.com
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay
Parker
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster
420 Constant Speed Propeller
Thanks Richard,
I need to read up on exactly what a EAB registration is and what
places it in that catagory. I knew it would have to be registered
non-standardly if the Constant Speed Prop were used, but I was unsure of
which exact catagory it would fall under.
Thank you so much,
Jay
_____
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:37:21 PM
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Request Info on Jabiru and the Airmaster
420 Constant Speed Propeller
Jay, Per FAR 1, Definitions, an LSA of any type cannot have an inflight
adjustable propeller.
Also, unless Zenith is willing to build and certify a CH-750 as an SLSA
(Special Light Sport Aircraft) per FAR 21.190 and give you the necessary
documentation to meet FAR 21.193e you cannot register it as an ELSA
(Experimental Light Sport Aircraft) per FAR 21.191i(2). You can,
however, register it as EAB (Experimental Amateur Built) per FAR
21.191g.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Jay Parker <zeus45601@yahoo.com> wrote:
Does anyone here have any data regarding the use of using an Airmaster
AP420 <http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/wab487.html>
http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/wab487.html with the Jabiru engine
preferably using the smaller 2200 on a Zenith CH-750 or comparable sized
plane? I=99m wondering if the Jabiru 2200 /w 85HP and Airmaster
would show noticeable improvements in average cruise speed, climb,
takeoff, to handle as well as the aircraft just fitted with a Jabiru
3300 with no constant speed prop, power-wise. I=99m a little
reluctant to use a smaller engine under 100 HP on the Zenith CH-750 even
though Zenith says it will fly with engines with horsepowers in the
range of 80 to 125 HP, but I would consider the 85HP Jabiru 2200 if it
were fitted with an Airmaster AP420 if Constant Speed propeller if I
could be shown to get the economy of a 4 stroke (4gals/hr) engine, with
the assurance of no sluggish handlings on take-off or climbs. I was
told I would have to register such a plane with an Airmaster as an
Experimental-LSA as opposed to just an Amateur Built-LSA. I=99m
not certain of the repercussions, cons or pros of registering a plane
one way or another, but for the sack of fuel economy and dependable
power when needed, I=99m toying with this idea of a CH-750 with a
Jab 2200 engine and an Airmaster AP420 Constant Speed Propeller combo.
I would appreciate any word, rumors etc on this topic and realize that
such a combo would be rare here in the States, but may not be unusual in
Australia, New Zealand or Tasmania since both the Jabiru and Airmaster
are products of that region.
Jay Parker
ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics==================
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