---------------------------------------------------------- JabiruEngine-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/25/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:29 AM - Re: Starting Problem (Chris Brooks) 2. 05:58 AM - Re: Re: Starting Problem (FLYaDIVE) 3. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Starting Problem (Pete Krotje) 4. 09:02 AM - Re: Replacement Oil Cooler (Don McIntosh) 5. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Starting Problem (Pete Krotje) 6. 10:05 AM - Re: Starting Problem (ces308) 7. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Replacement Oil Cooler (Pete Krotje) 8. 01:12 PM - Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 03/24/10 (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 9. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: Starting Problem (N1BZRich@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:12 AM PST US From: "Chris Brooks" Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Starting Problem Chris, I see the "cobbling" possibility we discussed yesterday is the route you decided to take. In addition to any staking you may be able to do on that bearing I would still consider the Locktite 620 retaining compound I also suggested yesterday. Sorry I couldn't be more help, but I'm not that familiar with the Bosch starter. Chris Brooks Thank you Paul... I took the starter apart and found that the front bearing came out of where it was supposed to be .I have to get the pinion gear off them press the bearing back into it's spot...then punch the edges so it won't come out again. Hope to be back in the air tomorrow ! chris ambrose M3X/A-2200 jab 106 hrs N327CS ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem From: FLYaDIVE Chris: Did he really say COBBLE? Other than shoe repair and round rocks... To cobble something is to assemble hastily or clumsily. >From what I read this is a PRESS FIT gear that engages with the ring gear of the engine? If this is the case ... DUMP THE STARTER! You NEVER want a press fit in an application that takes shear loads. Bring the starter to a STARTER/ALTERNATOR repair shop. They will be able to rebuild it correctly. Other wise jump all over the supplier. What MAROON designed that starter engine combination or starter gear combination. They should make good on it, other wise they are just going to get a bad reputation. Barry On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:39 PM, flylightning wrote: > > Chris, > > Is this the oilite bronze bushing in the nose of the starter cone? > > Nick > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ces308 > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:49 PM > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem > > > well...I talked to Chris at Jabiru in Tenn and unless I want to pay $480.00 > for a new started I'm screwed...Basically he said see if you can cobble the > bearing back in the hole.... > > not the answer I was looking for...back to the hangar..... > > chris ambrose > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291582#291582 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:08 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem We have not found that to be the case Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Givan, Max E (AS) Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:07 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem But do NOT tell them is off of an airplane. Most shops wont touch airplane repairs due to concern over legal liability -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Krotje Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 1:17 PM Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem You might try taking the starter to an automotive electrical rebuild shop. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ces308 Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:49 PM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem well...I talked to Chris at Jabiru in Tenn and unless I want to pay $480.00 for a new started I'm screwed...Basically he said see if you can cobble the bearing back in the hole.... not the answer I was looking for...back to the hangar..... chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291582#291582 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:19 AM PST US Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Replacement Oil Cooler From: "Don McIntosh" Pete, I do take offense to your assuming that I installed the cooling ducts incorrectly. There is only one way to install them since they come with the three cutouts for the 3 cylinders they fit over and the outside edge has to just slide over the valve covers to fit into place. It is like there is just 2 layers of glass to the wrong side of their mold. I guess I am just suggesting that Jabiru should take a look at their mold and give a little more clearance. Sure, it is easy and only 4 or 5 hours of work to cut apart, sand the paint off, reglass, sand and repaint, and I know this is what is required, I am just a little burnt over it! The other reason to post this is to inform others that are in the building stage that they need to take into account a little extra clearance is needed around the oil filter since all the replacements are bigger than the one they have in hand. I would have loved to have known this when it was dark 18 hours a day and 10 degrees outside when I was fitting the ducts and nothing was finish painted - no big deal, I would have added this to the list of little projects to get done before flying weather arrived as it has now. -------- Don McIntosh Kitfox Series 7 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291676#291676 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:45 AM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem Oh No! Now the MAROON's are designing things? I always thought design authority was limited to Greens and Violets with assistance from the Teals. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:55 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem Chris: Did he really say COBBLE? Other than shoe repair and round rocks... To cobble something is to assemble hastily or clumsily. >From what I read this is a PRESS FIT gear that engages with the ring gear of the engine? If this is the case ... DUMP THE STARTER! You NEVER want a press fit in an application that takes shear loads. Bring the starter to a STARTER/ALTERNATOR repair shop. They will be able to rebuild it correctly. Other wise jump all over the supplier. What MAROON designed that starter engine combination or starter gear combination. They should make good on it, other wise they are just going to get a bad reputation. Barry On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:39 PM, flylightning wrote: > > Chris, > > Is this the oilite bronze bushing in the nose of the starter cone? > > Nick > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ces308 > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:49 PM > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem > > > well...I talked to Chris at Jabiru in Tenn and unless I want to pay $480.00 > for a new started I'm screwed...Basically he said see if you can cobble the > bearing back in the hole.... > > not the answer I was looking for...back to the hangar..... > > chris ambrose > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291582#291582 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:31 AM PST US Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem From: "ces308" i GUESS BY "COBBLE" I mean,since the MFG has no fix for it,then do whatever it takes to fix the problem...I fixed the problem and this won't happen again...If anyone out there has the problem of the front bearing coming out and moving back into the armature,Let me know and I will tell you how to fix it. Chris,I didn't mean to sound disrespectful to you on line yesterday...I guess I was a little disappointed in Jabiru more than anything.Thank you for your input and help ! Thanks all for your help, chris ambrose M3X/Jab 106hrs N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291683#291683 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:15 PM PST US From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: RE: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Replacement Oil Cooler Don, Sorry if I offended you and I don't want to beat this to death but we've now completed in our shop nearly 200 airplanes between Jabiru LSA's and Lightnings, and a few other kit builts. We've supplied many hundreds of engines and firewall forward kits to builders who have not reported clearance problems. We've got enough experience to know that if the stock Jabiru supplied airducts are installed correctly there is no clearance issue with any of the oil filters we've used. Contrary to your thinking there is more than one way to position those ducts and they can be installed wrong. Once in a while early on when we were still getting our build crew fully trained one of our crew would install one a bit tight but reinstalling the duct correctly (and more training for the crew member) solved the problem with little effort. It is possible for a builder to widen out the ducts to try and make them cover more cylinder fins or otherwise alter the fit. They can be squashed down to a point where they don't fit. Installing the front air dam incorrectly can pull the front of the duct out of shape. Any of these things can cause a clearance problem. You are wanting Jabiru to change a mold to make the installation goof proof for the builder. I don't agree with that approach. The system works as supplied if installed with the clearance Jabiru has built into their current design. Pete Krotje Jabiru USA Sport Aircraft, LLC 931-680-2800 www.usjabiru.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McIntosh Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 11:02 AM Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Replacement Oil Cooler Pete, I do take offense to your assuming that I installed the cooling ducts incorrectly. There is only one way to install them since they come with the three cutouts for the 3 cylinders they fit over and the outside edge has to just slide over the valve covers to fit into place. It is like there is just 2 layers of glass to the wrong side of their mold. I guess I am just suggesting that Jabiru should take a look at their mold and give a little more clearance. Sure, it is easy and only 4 or 5 hours of work to cut apart, sand the paint off, reglass, sand and repaint, and I know this is what is required, I am just a little burnt over it! The other reason to post this is to inform others that are in the building stage that they need to take into account a little extra clearance is needed around the oil filter since all the replacements are bigger than the one they have in hand. I would have loved to have known this when it was dark 18 hours a day and 10 degrees outside when I was fit! ting the ducts and nothing was finish painted - no big deal, I would have added this to the list of little projects to get done before flying weather arrived as it has now. -------- Don McIntosh Kitfox Series 7 Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291676#291676 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:15 PM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 03/24/10 List, When I buy aviation parts from a non aviation supplier I tell them it's for a Very High Clearance off Road Vehicle. Do Not Archive bobby 601 XL Florida ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:26:05 PM PST US From: N1BZRich@aol.com Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem Now that's funny. And speaking of teals, aren't they an endangered species? Buz In a message dated 3/25/2010 12:54:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pete@usjabiru.com writes: --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" Oh No! Now the MAROON's are designing things? I always thought design authority was limited to Greens and Violets with assistance from the Teals. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:55 AM Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem Chris: Did he really say COBBLE? Other than shoe repair and round rocks... To cobble something is to assemble hastily or clumsily. >From what I read this is a PRESS FIT gear that engages with the ring gear of the engine? If this is the case ... DUMP THE STARTER! You NEVER want a press fit in an application that takes shear loads. Bring the starter to a STARTER/ALTERNATOR repair shop. They will be able to rebuild it correctly. Other wise jump all over the supplier. What MAROON designed that starter engine combination or starter gear combination. They should make good on it, other wise they are just going to get a bad reputation. Barry On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:39 PM, flylightning wrote: > --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "flylightning" > > Chris, > > Is this the oilite bronze bushing in the nose of the starter cone? > > Nick > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ces308 > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 2:49 PM > To: jabiruengine-list@matronics.com > Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Re: Starting Problem > > > well...I talked to Chris at Jabiru in Tenn and unless I want to pay $480.00 > for a new started I'm screwed...Basically he said see if you can cobble the > bearing back in the hole.... > > not the answer I was looking for...back to the hangar..... > > chris ambrose > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291582#291582 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message jabiruengine-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/JabiruEngine-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/jabiruengine-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/jabiruengine-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.